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Bring back self-heals

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Bring back self-heals

HyperAxiom's Avatar


HyperAxiom
12.11.2013 , 10:01 PM | #11
My shadow tank is in 72/78 gear with set bonus. Since the removal of TK heal I've run 3/5 DF HM, 4/5 DP HM and a 16 man TFB HM. Admittedly, I am running with good healers, but I didn't feel "squishy" on any of those bosses except for Raptus in DP (30k hits... yikes). I'm also finding myself less reliant on defensive cooldowns, providing I'm staying on top of my rotation and keeping the 4 stacks up as much as possible.

I don't know what the concern is, I would much rather prevent hp loss than have to try win back 2% hp. Compared to the other tank classes, I still feel like things hit me a little bit harder but with good use of cooldowns I can make up for it. And no, we are not some "little brother of the guardian tank"... the shadow tank is just a class of tank which needs a little more attention from the person playing it. It's easier to be a bad tank and get away with it on a guardian or vanguard than it is on a shadow.

In regards to pvp, I feel much much much more stable now than before. If I really need a self heal I'll stealth out, cc whoever I'm fighting if I need to then find a quiet spot and heal myself. Don't see the other tank classes doing that! ;p

Overall, I am very happy with the changes to shadow tanks, my only little niggling wish is that we had a *touch* more natural armour mitigation... and extra 2% more would be perfect in my opinion.
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Engeopathichero's Avatar


Engeopathichero
12.15.2013 , 04:46 AM | #12
Honestly I can't agree more about the self heals, I agree that they made the shadow unique, but though they got a buff, they also made it 10 times more difficult to achieve, especially with all the newest events that have a considerable amount of enemies with knockbacks, which makes the buff gained by telekinetic throw practically worthless, and hard to get. It's nice if you can get it, but having tried hard and for the most part failed, even though shadows have been my mains on both servers I'm on (just stating I have experience) I have trouble getting that buff. Honestly there is so much I can't do anymore because it feels like a nerf. My highest geared toon is a shadow tank, she used to be able to solo almost anything bounty contract week, now, she can barely do it at all. They made the shadow the same type of tank as the other two classes, yet with only having light armor, you may as well be a piece of paper going through a shredder. I honestly don't mind the new buff, I do mind at how short it lasts though, especially with how hard it is to get the 4 stacks. I've pretty much put my main to rest and no longer consider shadows as my favorite class because of this "Nuff" (Nerf-buff cause i feel like making a word lol). Can't say it enough, I'm not one to hate decisions Bioware makes, but this one I can't ask enough to bring back the self heals.
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Rebel_Guy's Avatar


Rebel_Guy
12.16.2013 , 02:51 PM | #13
I personally feel that the best part of the changes are that the playstyle is almost exactly the same. The rotation is same- the feel of the class is the same MINUS the rare occasion where I would get very unlucky chain of hits from bosses like corruptor zero and getting slam dunked by raptus. If other people don't feel the same I can't really say anything other than sorry you feel that way

Jiminison's Avatar


Jiminison
12.16.2013 , 03:13 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
Actually i got what i wanted. I feared they would nerf me by a lot, instead i got buffs.

I can understand if people hate it when the flair of self-healing is gone.
However i can't understand it, if people are claiming that these changes are a nerf, when that is not true.

I am not shouting down anyone, but if people are not bringing any arguments to prove points but instead try to insult and defame me, i will change the tone of my posts accordingly.



No it isn't. That would mean i would invest time in my posts. When people are not bringing any arguments to Support their Points, etc... it doesn't take long to respond. I would really like to discuss, but currently that is not possible for most of the threads .
For pvp and world pvp it was a nerf. See where this game is once they completely disenfranchise the pvp community little nerf here little nerfs there. Pve players like to marginalize us and claim we are a small part of the game you are wrong completely wrong ,you guys come too our servers and try to change our culture we do not go to pve servers complaining about you guys and how your culture is, that example tells me you guys can't even strand your selves. Bw can depend on their algorithms to perpetuate the myth that pve is king in mmo's and should get first consideration in all decisions but they are not considering the psychology of copetetivness and the pvp player and what we bring to mmo's with out us all mmo's die. Or they can keep pumping out content 1000% more than they do now to keep pve'rs happy with out us , the pvp population is low maintenance just keep it fair and balanced as possible point us in a direction and let us play,thats it! BW knows this so I do not get why they want too make pve'ers their main focus and ignore our needs and wants. Bring back self heals as a passive choice in our tree and dump one of our many useless talents. So if you click new passive you no longer get the DR buff and instead we get our self heals back please listen to us BW.

Jiminison's Avatar


Jiminison
12.16.2013 , 03:23 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by HyperAxiom View Post
My shadow tank is in 72/78 gear with set bonus. Since the removal of TK heal I've run 3/5 DF HM, 4/5 DP HM and a 16 man TFB HM. Admittedly, I am running with good healers, but I didn't feel "squishy" on any of those bosses except for Raptus in DP (30k hits... yikes). I'm also finding myself less reliant on defensive cooldowns, providing I'm staying on top of my rotation and keeping the 4 stacks up as much as possible.

I don't know what the concern is, I would much rather prevent hp loss than have to try win back 2% hp. Compared to the other tank classes, I still feel like things hit me a little bit harder but with good use of cooldowns I can make up for it. And no, we are not some "little brother of the guardian tank"... the shadow tank is just a class of tank which needs a little more attention from the person playing it. It's easier to be a bad tank and get away with it on a guardian or vanguard than it is on a shadow.

In regards to pvp, I feel much much much more stable now than before. If I really need a self heal I'll stealth out, cc whoever I'm fighting if I need to then find a quiet spot and heal myself. Don't see the other tank classes doing that! ;p

Overall, I am very happy with the changes to shadow tanks, my only little niggling wish is that we had a *touch* more natural armour mitigation... and extra 2% more would be perfect in my opinion.
Because pvp isn't as predictable as pve due to the bad guy being another human it is not pve players complaining about it imo it is pvp players. So understanding that there is another type of player that plays swtor is the answer to your question. I am not happy with the changes at all and too see classes like pt having self heal abilities and my guardian being able too boost his life for a bit which is a self heal even if for a short time all I can do is just laugh and shake my head. I thought I would be playing this game for quite a while guess not.

Jadirican's Avatar


Jadirican
12.17.2013 , 10:10 PM | #16
I wonder what the likelihood is now that self-heals might come back. I am worried that, like most companies, Bioware will support the change being implemented rather than acknowledging that the change may not have been as thought out as possible, and going back.

I still think the argument that taking heals away from an advanced consular class is contrary to what the spirit of that class is. Again, the fact that the consular storyline has the character HEAL others means that they should be proficient in healing.

Game mechanic-wise, fix the self-heals to make the class more robust at the higher levels. Take out the 2.5 second delay between activation, and have increase to % heal rather than damage mitigation as the new buff.

I would hate for SWTOR to go the way of SWG after the CU and NGE.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
12.18.2013 , 06:40 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
This was brought up countless times over the last few months, but the class reps ignored it.
Considering who the class reps are, I can't say I'm surprised.

While the changes in 2.5 may have indeed made Shadow tanks stronger they have simoultaneously made them feel like any other tank out there. Self-heals were a big part of their identity. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Stealth got removed just like Tumult has.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
12.18.2013 , 06:44 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Rebel_Guy View Post
I personally feel that the best part of the changes are that the playstyle is almost exactly the same.
Almost doesn't count.

The playstyle cannot be the same if you have to stop and heal out of combat every other fight. I'm talking about regular daily quests and missions here, not operations.

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
12.19.2013 , 07:11 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Jiminison View Post
For pvp and world pvp it was a nerf. See where this game is once they completely disenfranchise the pvp community little nerf here little nerfs there. Pve players like to marginalize us and claim we are a small part of the game you are wrong completely wrong ,you guys come too our servers and try to change our culture we do not go to pve servers complaining about you guys and how your culture is, that example tells me you guys can't even strand your selves. Bw can depend on their algorithms to perpetuate the myth that pve is king in mmo's and should get first consideration in all decisions but they are not considering the psychology of copetetivness and the pvp player and what we bring to mmo's with out us all mmo's die. Or they can keep pumping out content 1000% more than they do now to keep pve'rs happy with out us , the pvp population is low maintenance just keep it fair and balanced as possible point us in a direction and let us play,thats it! BW knows this so I do not get why they want too make pve'ers their main focus and ignore our needs and wants. Bring back self heals as a passive choice in our tree and dump one of our many useless talents. So if you click new passive you no longer get the DR buff and instead we get our self heals back please listen to us BW.
Funny you say this. Most nerfs and class balance are due to PvP for any and every class. This one is one of the few with PvE in mind affecting PvP, and this changed was asked because of the previous big nerf shadow/sin tanks had in 2.0 (apparently, they were too powerful in PvP so people complained and BW listened to them)

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
12.19.2013 , 07:38 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
Funny you say this. Most nerfs and class balance are due to PvP for any and every class. This one is one of the few with PvE in mind affecting PvP, and this changed was asked because of the previous big nerf shadow/sin tanks had in 2.0 (apparently, they were too powerful in PvP so people complained and BW listened to them)
False. The big nerf to Shadow tanks took place because of their relative balance in PvE.

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