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1.1.2 PvP bag changes.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
1.1.2 PvP bag changes.
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SunwindIon's Avatar


SunwindIon
02.03.2012 , 05:37 PM | #521
can someone clarify something for me - will champion gear bags still contain champion gear TOKENS? if so, is the drop rate on those going up or down at all?

Banjal's Avatar


Banjal
02.03.2012 , 05:47 PM | #522
The PvP Dev team is going about it all wrong.

It's a easy fix.

1.Lose all 3 Commendations and just make one type of Commendation for PvP.

2.Put blue level 50 PvP gear back in.

3. Put Valor Ranks on PvP gear.

4.Add more PvP daily missions,2 a day just isn't cutting it.

5.Let crafters make PvP mods.

Crazyeyedturtle's Avatar


Crazyeyedturtle
02.03.2012 , 06:02 PM | #523
Quote: Originally Posted by SunwindIon View Post
can someone clarify something for me - will champion gear bags still contain champion gear TOKENS? if so, is the drop rate on those going up or down at all?
They will still contain champion gear tokens (the 1 for 1 exchange ones) however it's being lowered.

This system sucks, as said in the past 53 pages. There is not one person I've heard that likes the current system and/or likes the new system being put into place.

My philosophy on PvP is that it's supposed to be about individual and group related player skill NOT about who has the best gear but in my 2 weeks or so of pvping I've seen full BM geared people literally ONE VERSUS EIGHT an entire team with nothing but a pocket healer in full BM and they didn't even go below 80% health, I kid you not. And what was the only difference between them? The 8 people were all non-geared (all around 12~13k hp) and the healer + the other guy/girl were both in BM. That's an insane amount of difference, completely and utterly insane.

Though the other issue I saw with this is, for instance, I get a piece of gear on average (as well as my 2 friends who play) 1 every 5 bags. With this system, it will take an average of 8-10 bags to get a piece of gear, 10 bags for any major pieces, about 6-7 per minor piece. From just this you can see they are literally doubling the "chance" to get a piece of champion gear, at first.

However, for people who half around half of the set, they actually up'd the chance to get champion gear. For instance, say you have all but 3 pieces of champion gear, tokens can be dupes but when you get comms you get whatever you want, therefor, if you have all but about 1-5 pieces of champion gear the odds are actually tipping in your favor.

This is the complete and utter OPPOSITE of what this new bag system is supposed to accomplish.

Now, the only thing that may or may not change this up is the fact you still get champion tokens. If you get them at the same rate then hell yes this is way better because every 10 bags your getting 3 pieces of gear on average, 2 possible dupes and one that is your choice. If it's half the rate, you get 2 pieces of gear every 10 bags which is basically the same as right now except one piece is your choice instead of 2 possible dupes.

Considering the fact that they already said it will be at a "much lower rate" if I remember correctly, then this new system is going to suck. They're basically expecting everyone to get geared out in centurion gear, then champion, then battlemaster. Honestly, scrap centurion is completely useless, you can craft purples that are leagues better than centurion pieces and who cares about expertise when your getting way more in actual stats?

That's the other problem I have with the whole gear system, the PvE gear has waaay more stats, especially HP (which is incredibly important to EVERY class in this game for PvP, a lot more important than in PvE) so technically to min/max out your gear, it actually takes a lot longer than just "getting full BM". You would need to grind out rakata gear and pull the enhancements from them then plug them into your BM gear for better stats. Yes there are people who do that there are a few on my server with PvE mods/enhancements on their champion gear and they are incredibly powerful in PvP.

This seriously doesn't make much sense to me how this system was formed, it's devoid of actual synergy it's just kind of a bunch of random ideas thrown into a pot and mixed around.

TL;DR : New bag system makes it 2x harder to get gear at first, 2x easier once you only need a few pieces so it is counterproductive. PvE gear needs to be toned down + a PvE only stat needs to be added (and remove-able via armoring mod). Centurion gear is useless scrap it and just give us champion + BM.

Sinisterz's Avatar


Sinisterz
02.03.2012 , 06:18 PM | #524
Quote: Originally Posted by Feebs View Post
The solution to this comes in two parts: now and next tier.

Now: Remove Valor requirement for battle master gear. Make it as easily obtainable.

Next tier: Come up with a not random, not a completely non-skill related grind in order to distribute PvP gear.

Right now, this is the only way to "balance" pvp in anyway. Give it up, and spend your resources on ensuring this problem never happens again. We will forgive you if you just admit your mistake.
Screw easy and uttainable. We already got that from L1 to L50. Do you really only want to play this game for 2-3 months? Games like that can be played on an Xbox 360 or a Playstation 3. MMOs should be played for years with harder to acquire game items and content. There has to be something to aim for rather than just given.
Server: Prophecy Of The Five
SinisterFiendz GM of Divine Legion
Website: www.divineguild.com
"Strength can be made but honor must be earned"

RonusDHV's Avatar


RonusDHV
02.03.2012 , 06:23 PM | #525
Quote: Originally Posted by SunwindIon View Post
can someone clarify something for me - will champion gear bags still contain champion gear TOKENS? if so, is the drop rate on those going up or down at all?
As stated above, yes there is still a chance at a token, albeit a lower chance -BUT- the bags will now contain 7 Champion commendations (if there is no token) making it easier to get the piece that you actually want or need.

Crazyeyedturtle's Avatar


Crazyeyedturtle
02.03.2012 , 06:36 PM | #526
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinisterz View Post
Screw easy and uttainable. We already got that from L1 to L50. Do you really only want to play this game for 2-3 months? Games like that can be played on an Xbox 360 or a Playstation 3. MMOs should be played for years with harder to acquire game items and content. There has to be something to aim for rather than just given.
As a PvEr, yes I would love to play this game for months on end getting gear because in the end it doesn't matter, but the encounters are fun and the progression of seeing just how high your damage can go is fun as well.

As a PvPer, it is a completely different situation. PvP is supposed to be about a player's skill versus another player's skill. Yes, there should be gear progression, yes you should get a slight boost so as to keep you wanting better and therefor string you along to keep playing.

The only problem is the PvP in this game is treated like it's PvE, where it takes a month or two to get the best set of gear, even longer if you want to get the best possible setup. This is wrong for a number of different reasons but the biggest one being that the difference between the centurion set and the battlemaster set is staggering, absolutely staggering. I've had people in battlemaster 3-4 shot kill me before, and only take maybe 5% off their health every time I hit them, this is ridiculous especially in a game where people are supposed to roll alts in order to experience the storyline because that means there will always be tons of fresh 50's getting completely decimated.

I'm not saying they should be able to roll over someone with BM gear, in fact I feel they should have quite a bit of a disadvantage 1v1 against someone with BM, but as it is right now there are people in BM who can 1v3 and live through it easily if they know what they're doing.

Edit : @ above : So they aren't changing the % chance to get tokens in champ bags and BM bags? That's great news! Basically means it's the same as now except we get a piece of gear of our choice every 10 bags.

Swaggz's Avatar


Swaggz
02.03.2012 , 06:41 PM | #527
For those who complain and don't know how to read, I've taken the liberty of copying and pasting this little tidbit of information from the dev's...ENJOY!

It's obvious from comments here that the patch note is not specific enough, so we'll get it updated before the patch goes to the live servers. Here are some specifics:

Champion Bags now always contain 15 Centurion Commendations AND 7 Champion Commendations. Battlemaster Bags now always contain 15 Champion Commendations. So Centurion gearing up progression for new level 50s is increased significantly and Champion gearing up progression will be steady.

We do still intend on adding more intro level 50 PvP items as well as change how Battlemaster Commendations operate toward the same 'steady' goal. It's just the scope of that change was more than could be done in a weekly patch as it included vendor changes, conversions to existing commendations on players already, etc.

That being said, the current interim 'gearing up' system will change significantly when we introduce Ranked Warzones (aiming for Game Update 1.2). Stay tuned for more details on that.


Now, if this doesn't help, I'd be happy to pull out the crayons and draw it out for you.

Crazyeyedturtle's Avatar


Crazyeyedturtle
02.03.2012 , 06:46 PM | #528
"The number of commendations in Champion and Battlemaster Bags has been greatly increased, and the direct item trade tokens appear less frequently in Champion Bags. This change allows players to obtain PvP gear at a steady and significantly more predictable rate with an occasional bonus."

You are wrong sir, they are lowering the chance you get a champion token according to this post which was posted after the post your referring to...

Taren's Avatar


Taren
02.03.2012 , 07:05 PM | #529
I haven't read every post on this thread, but let see if I got this correct:

They are increasing the chance for the ALREADY HAVES (BMs - 60 valor or more) to get more, and decreasing the chance for the HAVE NOTS (less than 60 valor) to get less, thus increasing the gear divide even more than it already is.

Is this a correct view of the upcoming changes to gear bags? Please enlighten me if I am wrong.

Swaggz's Avatar


Swaggz
02.03.2012 , 07:14 PM | #530
Quote: Originally Posted by Crazyeyedturtle View Post
"The number of commendations in Champion and Battlemaster Bags has been greatly increased, and the direct item trade tokens appear less frequently in Champion Bags. This change allows players to obtain PvP gear at a steady and significantly more predictable rate with an occasional bonus."

You are wrong sir, they are lowering the chance you get a champion token according to this post which was posted after the post your referring to...
Lets do some basic, and I mean BASIC math here. This will just be for the Warzone Weekly and Daily. This will be just for those under 60 valor...

1. Daily=1 Champ bag which in turn = 7 Champ commendations.

7x7= 49

2. Weekly=3 Champ bags

3x7= 21

Now lets add this up. This equals 70 Champ commendations. Now, this does NOT include bags that are bought from the vendor, but lets just say that you average 1 per day (I mean what pvper who does this all day can't get at least 1 more bag a day). Thats another 49 Champ Commendations.

70+49= 119 Champ Commendations.

Now the most expensive piece of Champ gear is 39 commendations. OH...and they AREN'T increasing the prices of gear.

SO, just by doing the weekly and daily warzone quests and buying 1 extra bag a day you can get upto 255 Centurian Commendations and 119 Cham Commendations a week...and thats NOT including the Ilum daily's/weekly.

Now, for those fresh 50's trying to get geared up, I really don't understand how getting this many commendations a week will hinder your gear progression. I mean getting at a MINIMUM 119 champ commendations a week just from WZ's to spend on what you want, instead of getting 4 boot tokens, 3 earpiece tokens, and a Chest Token from that many bags isn't really going to hinder your gear progression. Hell, you might actually be able to afford/get the piece you want now.