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Keyboard Ninja's Tank Stats

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles
Keyboard Ninja's Tank Stats

schmoops's Avatar


schmoops
01.22.2015 , 11:58 PM | #1
**First off, all credit to Keyboard Ninja, he is the man. But while Bioware works on whatever happened to the forums, I thought I would copy/paste KBN's work pre 3.0 with the current tables. My guild was able to grab them before the thread went down. But we don't have the current text. Also, unfortunately, I don't have the PVP spreadsheets.

Just for claritys sake - the actual tables are the current 3.0 numbers, while the text is from KBN's outdated post.

03.28.2013 , 11:41 AM | #1
QUOTE

Update (Mar 22): Critical chance devaluing shield is now correctly computed (this results in a very bizarre set of stat curves for shadow tanks in PvP). Distributions are now computed solely using values from Nightmare Dread Fortress (data curtesy of Thok-zeus and Drop it Like it's Hoth). Also, bosses will now be grouped into low, mid and high M/R, to facilitate those who want to carry multiple gear sets. The average profile remains.

Update (Mar 12): Kinetic Bulwark/Dark Bulwark calculation has been revised and made much more accurate (the value is slightly lower than assumed; special thanks to dipstik!). Self-heal contribution to survivability has been corrected to post-mitigation (rather than pre-mit, as before). Self-healing is no longer overvalued on bosses with single-swap mechanics. Corrupter Zero's Sweeping Slash has been corrected and is now considered a force/tech attack. Defense minima for PvP gear are now based on Obroan rather than Dread Forged.

Update (Dec 26): Relics are now part of the fundamental calculation; you no longer need to include them in your stat budget! Riot Gas has been dropped from the Vanguard bonuses (reasoning long and dull). Defense minima have been reworked, resolving a serious bug where vanguard minima were underestimated while shadow minima were overestimated.

---

For a quick overview of the methodology used in this post, hit the spoiler.

Using The Tables

To determine your target itemization, add up the defense, shield and absorb ratings from your character sheetincluding stim. This is your current stat budget. Using this, find the nearest entry in the appropriate table below for your class and stat budget. Your goal is to get your defense, shield and absorb rating as close to these recommended values as possible by swapping mods, enhancements and augments. This will maximize your achievable mitigation from defensive stats.

Note that these tables were all generated assuming use of the best in slot relic types: Reactive Warding and Fortunate Redoubt. These tables are not fully accurate with other relic combinations! They will be close, but not quite correct. Because these relics are included in the optimization process, there is no need to consider the relic proc value in your stat budget (as was previously required). Simply use your character sheet values; no need to calculate!

As an example, imagine that my shadow's character sheet shows a defense rating of 520, a shield rating of 1100, and an absorb rating of 900 (with stim activated). Thus, my total stat budget is 520 + 1100 + 900 = 2520. Rounding to the nearest value in the "Average" table below for shadows, we find the following entry:

{2500,{defense->557,shield->850,absorb->1092}}

My current defense rating is 520, which is low by 37 (almost exactly 1 enhancement). My shield rating is 1100, which is too high by 250. Since the only way to increase shield rating over the minimum is to stack shield augments, this should be a very easy problem to fix. Finally, my absorb rating is 900, which is too low by a whopping 182 points. If I swap one enhancement from bulwark to bastion (i.e. from absorb to defense), and then swap all eight of my shield augments to absorb, I should be just about perfect. I'll end up a little low on defense, a little low on shield and a little high on absorb, but it should be good enough. In most cases, it is impossible to achieve precisely the optimal stat ratings. Just get as close as you can.

Average

M/R+K/E: 73.1878%
F/T+K/E: 19.6532%
F/T+I/E: 7.19721%
DtPS: 7510.1

For those who don't want to carry around three gear sets…

Shadow

Graph
Spoiler


Guardian

Graph
Spoiler


Vanguard

Graph
Spoiler


Low M/R (Corruptor Zero, Brontes)

M/R+K/E: 35.4055%
F/T+K/E: 51.5776%
F/T+I/E: 13.0169%
DtPS: 7558.1

Shadow

Graph
Spoiler


Guardian

Graph
Spoiler


Vanguard

Graph
Spoiler


Mid M/R (Draxus)

M/R+K/E: 77.1131%
F/T+K/E: 10.9340%
F/T+I/E: 11.9530%
DtPS: 3590.65

Shadow

Graph
Spoiler


Guardian

Graph
Spoiler


Vanguard

Graph
Spoiler


High M/R (Nefra, Grob'thok)

M/R+K/E: 93.5418%
F/T+K/E: 3.90938%
F/T+I/E: 2.61895%
DtPS: 9421.83

Shadow

Graph
Spoiler


Guardian

Graph
Spoiler


Vanguard

Graph
Spoiler


PvP

M/R+K/E: 30.6%
F/T+K/E: 54.1%
F/T+I/E: 15.3%
DtPS: 7000

These numbers are based on a spreadsheet tabulated by Ilmar. As he is a Scoundrel DPS and not a tank, the exact percentages are going to be a bit different for tanking. However, these still represent the most authoritative values we have. Assuming a 25% natural crit chance (on average) and adding the auto-crit attacks found in Ilmar's spreadsheet, we assume a 33.25% crit rate overall (thus reducing the value of shield). The 7k DtPS value roughly approximates two geared DPS focus firing with all cooldowns available over a span of roughly 12 seconds. Average values over an entire match are clearly much lower than this, but also much less interesting since the healer (and tank) is primarily concerned with who is being bursted and by how much.

Shadow

Graph

The "spikes" in the graph are caused by a discontinuity in the derivative of the mitigation function. Basically, multiple extrema are competing in that budget region, causing the optima to jump from one allocation to the other and back again. This is a consequence of the way that critical chance is weighed against shield chance.


One somewhat hilarious thing you will notice in both the stat budgets and the graphs is that the ideal defense rating actually decreases as your stat budget increases at a certain point. This is true for shadows and vanguards, but vanguards show the most precipitous drop. This is not a typo or a mistake, and has been verified formally and justified with informal arguments. It does make sense from a mathematical standpoint, but it's a little bizarre. Just go with it. :-)

Another weird thing that you can find is the high-budget inflection of shield and absorb in the shadow PvP stat allocation graph. This is a case where the ideal defense rating rises, falls, and then rises again! This is due to the fact that shadows alone (among the three tanks) have a high enough shield chance to clip into the point where shield% + crit% > 100%, which is the point at which shield chance gets gutted by crit chance. This cutoff point causes defense and absorb to suddenly rise in value.

For reference, this is the Mathematica notebook used to generate this post.

Overall Survivability

Note This section previously counted self-healing pre-mitigation. This is inaccurate, as any self-healing mechanic is applied to damage taken post-mitigation. Thus, self-healing mechanics were previously undervalued by a substantial margin. This error has been corrected, resulting in a slightly different balance picture than before.

What follows is the comparative tank survivability including all buffs, damage and self-heals in each operation (higher is better). In other words, you should be able to predict your net external healing required by multiplying an operation's DtPS by 1 - # where "#" is the survivability value from below. For PvE survivability, I'm assuming full 78 armorings and a stat budget of 2721 for each tank (in other words, full min-maxed Dread Forged). For PvP survivability, I'm assuming full min-maxed Obroan with maxed augments and a stim. Expertise is ignored as it only functions to cancel out the damage bonuses from another max-geared player.

Defensive cooldowns are not included in the calculation!

Low M/R (Corruptor Zero, Brontes)

• Shadow: 66.4072%
• Guardian: 66.8745%
• Guardian (hybrid): 66.9502%
• Vanguard: 66.0365%

Mid M/R (Draxus)

• Shadow: 72.0175%
• Guardian: 74.0619%
• Guardian (hybrid): 74.6270%
• Vanguard: 70.8083%

High M/R (Nefra, Grob'thok)

• Shadow: 76.6456%
• Guardian: 77.0023%
• Guardian (hybrid): 77.6602%
• Vanguard: 75.4475%

PvP

• Shadow: 57.3984%
• Guardian: 58.0277%
• Guardian (hybrid): 58.0214%
• Vanguard: 58.1033%

Or, if you prefer the graphical approach, here is what the relative balance looks like. Note that this is a relative graph, meaning that the best tank for a given piece of content is taken to be 1, and all other tanks are a percentage of that value. If all tanks are balanced to within 5%, then all of these bars should be at 0.95 or higher.

Overall, balance is surprisingly tight. Guardians sit on top for current content because of how low damage levels are and the non-scaling nature of self-healing mechanics. Shadows fall behind Guardians by about 0.8% on average. The most notable disparity is on Draxus, where the combination of relatively low average damage paired with a reasonably significant percentage of melee/ranged attacks has a tendency to favor Guardians even without accounting for their excellent cooldowns. Note that the periodic nature of the fight isn't accounted for in the math, which dramatically inflates the value of Blade Barrier (accounting for this would likely put all three tanks on nearly even footing absent cooldowns). Vanguards are a little over 2% behind Guardians for reasons of…their own. It's not clear exactly why this is, especially since Vanguards have the worst defensive cooldowns of the tanking classes. Despite their currently superior survivability, double-Guardian is the worst tanking combination by far, since Guardians do not provide the damage debuff (provided by Shadows in the form of Slow Time, or by Vanguards in the form of Ion Cell).

PvP balance is somewhat more varied, but not as disparate as most people believe. Vanguards are the best PvP tanks in terms of mean mitigation, ahead of Guardians by a mere 0.14% and ahead of Shadows by 1.13%. However, this is somewhat balanced seeing as Riot Gas does not work reliably in PvP as a defensive cooldown, meaning that Vanguards need to have a bit more in the way of baseline survivability. Neither Shadows nor Guardians suffer from cooldowns which are less effective in PvP, and thus we see a slight penalization in terms of static survivability.

Note that in PvP, Guardians cannot benefit from the debuffs of another tank (assuming 1-tank arena compositions), which means that they must be considered in the full absence of the 5% damage reduction debuff provided by Shadows, Vanguards and Watchman Sentinels.

Hybrid Guardians (as well as Shadows, for that matter) are currently omitted from the relative chart owing to the fact that the hybrid Guardian spec falls too far behind in the realm of defensive CDs to be competitive, and thus causes a very deceptive skewing of the relative numbers. A more complete analysis of the standard hybrid tank specs (most notably, Shadows and Guardians) is beyond the scope of this section. This is particularly significant for the "Low M/R" category, since a hybrid shadow has almost 30% more damage reduction across the board on Brontes, resulting indramatically more survivability.

It's worth noting that these relative balance figures assume absolutely numerically perfect play on the part of each tank. A single GCD's worth of delay on Blade Storm for a Guardian or a single GCD early on a Kinetic Ward refresh for a Shadow and their survivability plummets. This might explain why Vanguards are somewhat behind the other two tanks, seeing as their active mitigation is far, far less susceptible to diminishment due to player error.

Overall, tank balance in 2.5 represents an impressive achievement on the part of Bioware's combat team. I don't agree with every decision they make, but credit where credit is due. All three tanks are viable, and absent the aforementioned double-Guardian composition, any tank may be slotted into any ops group without disadvantage.

Projected Survivability

One interesting thing to look at is how well the three tanks do not just in content now but in future content. By making the assumption that both armor rating and damage levels are linearly correlated with stat budget, we can examine this question. Note that this is a fairly significant assumption! This graph looks at the projected survivability of each tank plotted over stat budget (shadows = blue; guardians = red; vanguards = yellow). As you can see, the Guardian lead on the other two tanks shrinks consistently as damage levels and gear improves. Shadows don't scale quite as well as Vanguards do (on account of the heavy armor vs light armor distinction), but all three tanks are still within a hair's breath of each other by the time we get to the absolute numerical limit on current stat scaling (a budget of roughly 5k).

Thompsons's Avatar


Thompsons
01.23.2015 , 08:44 AM | #2
Thanks. This helped relieve the panic attack I had this morning when I clicked my bookmark on KBN's thread this morning and was told the link didn't exist.

Chazcon's Avatar


Chazcon
01.26.2015 , 09:15 AM | #3
Thanks for posting this. I keep multiple backups of MY data and a hard copy of this under my pillow (Tank!)
FOR THE VITAE!
Thod says, "they really don't know what they're doing"

NwahsNirom's Avatar


NwahsNirom
02.20.2015 , 08:50 PM | #4
This is still accurate for 3.0 right? Nothing was changed as far as stat caps go?
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Chazcon's Avatar


Chazcon
02.21.2015 , 10:07 AM | #5
Yes. Gear per these tables and ye shall be a god among tanks. Of course this just handles your gear & mitigation, you still have to be a good tank ;P
FOR THE VITAE!
Thod says, "they really don't know what they're doing"

huntresssX's Avatar


huntresssX
03.08.2015 , 06:42 PM | #6
nice post

llayles's Avatar


llayles
03.09.2015 , 07:20 AM | #7
I cannot think of a single reason not to invest in at least 2 tanking sets.

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
03.11.2015 , 04:33 AM | #8
When can we expect an update especially for the surviveability section regarding the new Ops?
Revanchist

Oxidsed's Avatar


Oxidsed
03.11.2015 , 04:32 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by llayles View Post
I cannot think of a single reason not to invest in at least 2 tanking sets.
Which 2 sets do you go with? a high and low MR or an average and low MR?
The Mëtal Legacy - The Harbringer
Oxidised - Mercenary; Moltën - Assassin

llayles's Avatar


llayles
03.13.2015 , 10:22 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Oxidsed View Post
Which 2 sets do you go with? a high and low MR or an average and low MR?
High mean mitigation and min/maxed EK/FT resist with lots of health.