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After playing Group Ranked tonight, healers need to be buffed

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
After playing Group Ranked tonight, healers need to be buffed

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
11.16.2019 , 06:22 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Ahwassa View Post
I play both and before 6.0 merc and sorc were equaly good in pvp and pve.
In Ops (depending on the boss) both had their advantages.

I have a friend who mains merc heal in pvp and he was a beast in 5.0 and basicaly unkillable and is even more so now. Sorcs were not op.
Now with the moving rapid scan tactical, mercs are op.
What tacticals does he use, what gear set do you know? For the merc healer.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Ahwassa's Avatar


Ahwassa
11.16.2019 , 06:30 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
What tacticals does he use, what gear set do you know? For the merc healer.
At the moment Concentrated Fire and Running Rapid Restoration.
But hes trying to get Apex Predator to test it.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
11.16.2019 , 06:55 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Ahwassa View Post
At the moment Concentrated Fire and Running Rapid Restoration.
But hes trying to get Apex Predator to test it.
Thank you.

I always played my merc healer in regs for fun, always set his utilities up with DCDs being the focus. Sometimes I would even run a spec without the moving scan just to fortify his defenses more but in the end, merc healer was always easily stoppable no matter what utilities you picked for 4s.

Versus decent dps I always found the class too easily shut down when tunneled, and also when multiple targets were hit I never had enough healing to keep anyone up especially when all it took was one well-timed interrupt to wreck the mercs healing rotation.

I always liken my merc to a poor wildebeest getting slowly dragged down to it's death by a pack of DPS (lions.) That's how it always felt, a pack of DPS hanging all over my merc as he tried to heal and move around enough to not be a standing still target, which he was often due to so many stand and cast heals.

My problem with sorcs are the bubble heal seems good for boosting healing numbers up but does it really do much? Seems to me one half hit from any dps pops the bubble (Static Barrier.) I'd like to see bubbles you can put on others that actually withstand damage.

Also, I actually preferred when we got power regen by dumping health. Sure, it was dangerous but that adds strategy too. I like getting a large amount of power for heals at the cost of lower health, not this power regen system they got for sorcs now.

Basically when I need power I just spam the instant ability (Consumption) to get my power and don't worry one bit if my power regen is slowed after using Consumption. Thing is that's a lot of HPS compromised when using that ability over actual heals.

As for Sorc Static Barrier, it just seems over the years it has not been scaled appropriately compared to the DPS abilities. Seems that's the case now with healers in general, they are not scaling with the DPS equally from past iterations, at least sorc and ops healers if it's true merc heals actually is strong now.

Tanks could be in the same boat, if all BW did was mostly focus on DPS, well tanks probably got the short end of the stick, too.

As for results in group ranked? That will trickle into other facets too, though. These low performances of healers in ranked will also be experienced in PVE, and regs PVP too once everyone is geared and knowing what tacticals to run and gear sets. That's why it's important to note these issues as soon as they come up. Time will prove if Krea's concerns are valid, but he's always posted only when sure of what he is experiencing so I doubt this issue of weak heals and tanks is mistaken on his part.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Lundorff's Avatar


Lundorff
11.16.2019 , 07:32 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
Madness has decent damage, but it’s too squishy to be playable against good players. Lightning does just as much, if not more, cleave damage and is much tankier. There’s just no real advantage to running madness.
Sadness, but thank you.

Ahwassa's Avatar


Ahwassa
11.16.2019 , 07:52 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
1. Versus decent dps I always found the class too easily shut down when tunneled, and also when multiple targets were hit I never had enough healing to keep anyone up especially when all it took was one well-timed interrupt to wreck the mercs healing rotation.

2. My problem with sorcs are the bubble heal seems good for boosting healing numbers up but does it really do much?

3. These low performances of healers in ranked will also be experienced in PVE, and regs PVP too once everyone is geared and knowing what tacticals to run and gear sets.
1. When focused no healer stands a chance. We all go down trying to heal (dark infusion can be interrupted too).

2. The bubble shield ca. 10 k and if busted heals for 9,700 k. Thats ok I think compared to the merc bubble.

3. I hope they buff sorc and oper. DDs do 18 - 20 k dps, healers should be able to outheal them ...

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
11.16.2019 , 08:09 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Ahwassa View Post
1. When focused no healer stands a chance. We all go down trying to heal (dark infusion can be interrupted too).

2. The bubble shield ca. 10 k and if busted heals for 9,700 k. Thats ok I think compared to the merc bubble.

3. I hope they buff sorc and oper. DDs do 18 - 20 k dps, healers should be able to outheal them ...
From a numbers standpoint that does seem more than adequate with 9700 heal.

I guess I recall other games where a "bubble" actually is noticeable, whereas on this game sorc heal bubbles pop as soon as they are hit offering no real protection instead it seems to serve more as a buffer for incoming damage not so much of a "barrier" as they call it. A barrier would actually hold up and be a bit more difficult to break but I digress.

If DPS are that effective now, I don't even see why people bother with a tank or even a healer for that matter. Maybe in regs a healer would be fine, I mean asking a regs team to assist one another to take out a healer rarely happens so dealing with overtuned DPS probably isn't quite as daunting as it is in ranked or granked.

Why not just go with 4 stealth, plan who to attack, make quick work of them then exit combat to rinse and repeat? Seems far easier and less complicated to do this. If this turns out the best way to win, people will do it I have no doubt. That would be sad if ranked ends up nothing but stealth versus stealth battles. I can see it, though.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Ahwassa's Avatar


Ahwassa
11.16.2019 , 08:35 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot;9792663

1.
From a numbers standpoint that does seem more than adequate with 9700 heal.

2. If DPS are that effective now, I don't even see why people bother with a tank or even a healer for that matter.

3. Why not just go with 4 stealth, plan who to attack, make quick work of them then exit combat to rinse and repeat?
1. Healing 9.700 is the best case, the worst case is 0. It heals less the more you heal the target.

2. Thats why I want healers to be buffed. And guard removed from dps maybe?

3. People are already doing that. That´s why we need change

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
11.16.2019 , 08:39 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
Naive. It will be first weeks decent team playing and then wintraders queueing against their friends/guild mates geting easy top spots while decent teams get nothing
Well yes, that will likely happen too to some degree. Those kind of matches clearly wouldn't count toward "alive" status.

Cherryluve's Avatar


Cherryluve
11.16.2019 , 01:06 PM | #39
Now this is just regs since I haven't gone into ranked (not that I am a good ranked player). I don't have augments since I can't afford them but my highest healing in a regular match was just over 15k hps. Whereas, I have seen multiple merc healers reaching 18-19k. I am not even close to matching that. They did have the new augments but even if I had them, it wouldn't jump my heals that much. Also, I die so quickly that I have to port or bubble immediately with any focus. When everyone's regular hits are 20kish with upwards of 70-80k, I usually only average around a 35-40k crit (that is with 1.8s heal). So ya, we can stall a bit but one good dps can own my face and keep me out of the game. Highest operative healer I saw was over 16k but I don't see many of them.

Honestly you just cc the healer and take out someone, since heals can't keep up with focus. Merc healers can survive lots longer because of their cooldowns since they can crit themselves for over 110k. So you ignore them and burst someone.

In solo ranked, it honestly will mostly be all merc healers. It is really gonna come down to how good the dps is at focus. And I agree with most ranked being stealthers.
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Bubs'r'hugs ----- Sage Healer Cand'ee ----- Sorc Healer

dracmor's Avatar


dracmor
11.17.2019 , 09:26 AM | #40
I know - in this area my opinion doesn't really matter as I am not a hardcore pvp'er, but I wanted to add
+1 vote to buff sorc heals and to remove guard from dps (which never made sense).

For me, the numbers are pretty simple. Granted, I do not have MK-11 augments and not every single amplifier is tuned towards healing. In MK-10 augmented 306 gear hear are my current maxed crit heals: Healing Trance around 45K, Deliverance around 30K, Benevolence around 21K. Compare these to the crit hits of 40 - 80K. And this is before one has to worry about normal pvp stun lock or having to deal with multiple dps or the poorer resource management, etc. If a healer can't even keep up against one average level dps (nevermind top level dps), then why even bother with pvp?

Which, I think, is the whole point. IMO Bioware wants to get healers out of pvp and this is just their back-handed method of doing this - so while I hope for a buff (as I think this is a PVE issue as well) I am not expecting one (especially anytime before end of the year).

Just my two cents, I will now return to my PVE centered world...