i realize not many people play swtor anymore. but this game mode needs some god***n restrictions.

i am not surprised almost noone bothers to play this, its impossible to start out in! got a default ship with no upgrades? cool! here's an enemy team with fully fleshed out fighters and 4+ ships. good *********** luck to ya! i really really want to like this, but 95% of the time i'd be just as useful sitting in a corner crying

oh look an enemy, oh look you got killed within a second.

PVP has restrictions to how much of a level gap there can be, why doesnt this have them?

I agree that there could be many improvements to GSF, however things may not be as bad as they seem. I as well found myself dying all the time at first. I don't think there is anyway around that. But even if you are dying all the time, if you get the dailies and weeklies for GSF, you'll find that even when being slaughtered all the time by overmatched groups, you still start to stockpile a lot of requisition really quickly. With this you can start to purchase upgrades to your ships. I think you will find that with a few rounds of upgrades, your survivability and contribution will go up significantly. While there is still a lot of skill and experience involved in being the best, I've found that with about the first two tiers of my components unlocked, I am consistently in the middle of the scoreboard even without trying too hard.

So before you write GSF off, take some time to build some requisition and boost your damage, shields, accuracy, etc. and then see how that affects your experience.

I would also suggest saving all your purple fleet requisition to buy a gunship or a bomber to try out different play styles. My wife, who was the LAST person I ever expected to like GSF, totally turned around once she tried a gunship. Its play style fits her perfectly, and she went almost instantly to being in the top half of the scoreboard.

I'll also note that the learning curve can be quite steep for GSF.

For instance, you can put me in a stock Rycer or Star Guard, and send me at the wolves in a scenario like the one you just described, and I'll be more than capable of holding my own, and will probably be among the leaders in damage, and possibly kills and assists. But I've also got ~2000 games under my belt, so I know the ships, the maps, the builds, and in general, just how to fly. Components matter, but not nearly as much as the pilot in the cockpit, which really makes matchmaking difficult. I've seen people in near stock ships who just cut up the field like butter, and I've seen people with 5 mastered ships on their bar who could barely fly their way out of a paper bag. So from that perspective, matchmaking becomes really difficult, and it's not really fair to compare it with the ground game in terms of making sure you don't match up with people who, say, are 20 or 30 levels higher than you are (although the ground game here will do it, they just try to offset the difference with their bolster algorithms), because that's not really easy to do, since there's not really a leveling system, and without a ladder, you can't really match appropriately.

If you want to like it, and enjoy the flying aspect, but not the dying, then try to concentrate on learning how the ship reacts/flies, and not letting people kill you to start. Don't worry about trying to top the damage or kill scoreboards just yet, but focus more on making sure you're not making negative contributions to the team. Over time, you'll get better and better at that, and the offensive side should really start to take care of itself.

Also, not sure which server you're on, but join the GSF channel ( "/cjoin gsf" ), and ask questions. Most of the vets are in there when they're on, and while it's not a hugely active channel depending on server/faction, most of us are willing to help answer questions, or try to give tips to newer players, or join up and fly with them, etc.

But the tutorial level is... "lacking", to put it nicely, and without cross-server or a ladder, a lot of the player pools aren't large enough to truly make even matches a lot of the times based on their pairing algorithm (which I wonder about anyway, sometimes... I've seen some seriously lopsided wargames, and to me, there's no real excuse for that...), so a new player in many ways really is just kind of thrown out in the deep end with the sharks. And while some of us will take it easy on newer players, there are some out there who absolutely believe in the school of hard knocks when it comes to GSF.

Anyway, hope you don't get too frustrated, and decide to stick with it for a while. It really can be a lot of fun. For me, at this point in my SWToR career, it's the only part of the game I still truly enjoy.

Drop your mouse sensitivity for GSF. OK, that's out of the way.

Experience and skill trump all in GSF. Gear is correlated with both, because while earning the former, you automatically get the latter. The early phases can suck if you go in expecting to be Luke Skywalker, which the rest of the ground game suggests *should* be the case. Early on, you should really concentrate on learning to survive, and to generally figure out how the flow of matches work. Learn how to abandon hopeless satellites and figure out where people *should* be and act accordingly. Figure out when during a dogfight you can best intervene. Figure out how to run and live, rather than stand and die. Learn power-up locations and practice general flying and cooldown usage. There are few things as satisfying as finally getting good in challenging pvp.

To use a ground analogy - gsf is a heroic instance with lots of mechanics, but with hidden nameplates. Some enemies are mooks, and you can handle them safely. Many others are silvers and golds. A few are worldbosses. You have to go in and figure out what's what. As you go, you'll get some drops from the mooks (experience, but also gear) that help you against the tougher enemies. Expect to medprobe a lot until you figure it out.

I would suggest joining the gsf chat channels, whispering top pilots after games to get advice, and to start grouping with good pilots you meet in matches. You'll get faster queue pops as a group, and you can build core teams that add to the social side of the game and give you reliable teammates.

I would suggest joining the gsf chat channels, whispering top pilots after games to get advice, and to start grouping with good pilots you meet in matches. You'll get faster queue pops as a group, and you can build core teams that add to the social side of the game and give you reliable teammates.

To put fact on your point.... I'm currently flying on JC. I would say that I'm probably somewhere in the top 10 pilots that aren't just flying there every once in a while (Drak I'm looking at you). I've taken 2 decently bad pilots under my wing (both had negative KDR in matches despite having near maxed ships). Since they fly with me, their contributions to the team just went up, their KDR is slowly going back to a positive ratio.. And when thr three of us fly together.. Most top pilots (one of the top pilot on the server) can have trouble.

got a default ship with no upgrades? cool! here's an enemy team with fully fleshed out fighters and 4+ ships. good *********** luck to ya!

Can you do really well in a stock ship?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=755330

You probably aren't doing anywhere near his chart topping performance in your stock ship. Obviously, upgrades will help, but they are an order of magnitude or more less influential than experience.

So no, your gear isn't hurting you enough for you to notice. But experience takes longer to earn that gear, and that really is something that makes the game hard to learn.

First, you should focus on getting the upgrades that matter the most. Second, consider unlocking the ships that you think you will like the most, based on the descriptions and opinions. It's not controversial to point out that the Type 2 Scout (Sting/Flashfire), Type 1 Gunship (Mangler/Quarrel), Type 1 Bomber (Razorwire/Rampart), and Type 2 Bomber (Legion/Warcarrier) are pretty solid ships that you should check out if you aren't looking for a specific thing another ship has to offer.

Third, remember that the first games you play "naked" are a trivial part of your experience, even if you constantly switch servers. It takes 150k to master a ship, but a huge bulk of the upgrades are within the first 50k of that, and the difference between a 0 req ship and a 20k req ship is a bigger difference than a 20k ship and a 150k ship.

Fourth, stop blaming the system. The gearing has some parts that are universally disliked (or nearly so) in the playerbase, such as the difficulty of getting armor piercing on a new ship. Since many of us have rolled alts across the GSFiverse, we've actually played stock ships and new ships way more than you have (and probably ever will), so your experience of starting from scratch is shared by everyone. The system isn't terrible, and I would say it's overall pretty ok, though I think the "0 req" situation probably starts you too low so that your first upgrades can be cheap and meaningful. But this is just a few games, and, again, you aren't losing because of the gear, you're losing because you are new.

Here's a simple way to tell: what accuracy are you getting? How much damage are you doing? If your numbers are similar to Drako's in the thread above, then you may have room to complain. But I already know that isn't true.

Stick with the game and you'll have fun.

i realize not many people play swtor anymore. but this game mode needs some god***n restrictions.

i am not surprised almost noone bothers to play this, its impossible to start out in! got a default ship with no upgrades? cool! here's an enemy team with fully fleshed out fighters and 4+ ships. good *********** luck to ya! i really really want to like this, but 95% of the time i'd be just as useful sitting in a corner crying

 

oh look an enemy, oh look you got killed within a second.

lol, sounds like me when the homies drag me into a WZ with them. "omg I can't do any f*cking damage! I just went out of force power attacking that guy and moved his health bar only a little, then he turned around and killed me!"

It might feel that way when you first start, especially if you have ever played xwing vs tie fighter . You can choose to believe it or not but: the balance in this game is not off, there are minor things between classes but they are just that - minor.

This games flight style, aiming, component usage, and situational awareness requirements are all unique to GSF. The learning curve is rather steep, but people have proven that with experience you can do well in stock ships. There are whole threads about this with arguments both ways, but what is evident is that stock ships are dangerous in the right hands.

This game is different from any other I have played, and it took time to get used to making everything work in perfect concert. That being said, at first you should focus on objectives. Helping your team by doing what your "supposed to do"

In deathmatch that is sticking with your team, not going off alone, not over pushing into enemy territory, and engaging targets of opportunity that approach your pack. Try to engage targets that are fighting someone else, they wont be paying attention to you at first so with a little luck you can either turn them away or kill them. Don't follow people who run, switch targets and get the next guy shooting at your teammates.

In domination your job is to stay near the sattelites (within 1500k at least), be aware of where the enemy is and where they are not. Watch the map and see where the enemy is pushing, change positions to stop enemy advances. Always try to be the first person to the satellite and the last person to leave. Never leave a satellite undefended etc.

If you were to do these things you would slowly grow accustomed to the game while earning points for components. (making things subsequently easier with time and points)

Myself and lots of other people love this game, I find it very rewarding as far as PvP is concerned. IMO its worth the early beatings that it takes to get your wings. My advice is to stick with it, do some reading on the forums, and take your initial experiences less seriously. As long as you learn something each match your on your way.

Here's a simple way to tell: what accuracy are you getting? How much damage are you doing? If your numbers are similar to Drako's in the thread above, then you may have room to complain. But I already know that isn't true.

As long as you don't hit reliably ~30% accuracy, you aren't in a position to talk. For RFL (which you shouldn't use at all), 35-40% is a good average, every other weapons but BLC and railguns average around 45-55%, the BLCs averages at 65-75% and railguns averages between 60-100% depending on the amount of scouts around.

If you don't hit these numbers, I'm sorry to tell you, but the problem isn't gear; it's you.

EDIT : PS. I'm just quting you, Verain, to adds some details about accuracy... I'm talking to OP

As long as you don't hit reliably ~30% accuracy, you aren't in a position to talk. For RFL (which you shouldn't use at all), 35-40% is a good average, every other weapons but BLC and railguns average around 45-55%, the BLCs averages at 65-75% and railguns averages between 60-100% depending on the amount of scouts around.

 

If you don't hit these numbers, I'm sorry to tell you, but the problem isn't gear; it's you.

 

 

EDIT : PS. I'm just quting you, Verain, to adds some details about accuracy... I'm talking to OP

ive never been below 30% accuracy, not even once ... i am switching the energy distribution when appropriate etc, this isnt my first rodeo. ive been playing flying games since xwing vs tie fighter (yes i am that old)

So, if you're doing everything right, you're up there with the scoreboards like in the Drakolich games, right?

Can you youtube your games?

@OP

Initially made a similar post as you did, on my 10th battle or so, when the game was pitting Tier 1 Blackbolts against fully equipped Bombers and Gunships.

The people's advice was carry on, do as much as I can and things will improve as my skill improves and modules/crew.

Fast forward a month later, playing 3-4 battles per day.

I created a new toon, and decided to get him into GSF also. First battle stock Blackbolt, 20 kills, 53K damage. When my avg damage up to now was 28-35K.

Yes the stock Blackbolt compared to the fully upgraded on my main toon does suck, but I was amazed how comfortable felt on it flying it.

What you need to do is play with the initial Scout and Strike and see how you fare in them, before you spend the requisition to by more advance ships.

Use Stacey's guide to equip them also, since is a valuable guide how to start. (and watch the relevant videos from there)

Depending what ships you like to fly after 10 battles or so, stick to them.

Bomber & Gunships are for those who know what they do and are preferably in group. Unfortunately tried, on my main toon to play both and gave up.

I rather fly a stock Blackbolt than a fully equipped bomber or gunship. My aggressive playstyle cannot fit in them and I am a liability for the team because I cannot help them.

But other players are shining in them.

General advice. You are going to lose ships, and you are going to lose matches. There are days where you can play 5 battles and lose them all.

Is team game, not solo and you cannot single handed win a Domination game for the team. (Deathmatch yes, and even myself which is a noob have done so with 30 kills battle).

However, we lose nothing, regardless how bad we did on a game. As long as we try, learn from mistakes keep it friendly and try to coordinate the team if none else does.

Yes that is important. If you see that none has said anything about tactics at the start of the battle, is your responsibility to do so. Put a plan on the table (chat) and see if the others follow.

If someone else put a plan on the table, stick to it. Ask for orders and additional details.

Communication wins the games.

Final thought. If you want to actually help and not know what to do, stick near friendly Gunships at around 10K distance to the direction of the inbound enemies. There are many players who zoom to the Gunships for the easy kills, and you can pick them off and hammer them, while supporting your fellow teammate.

So, if you're doing everything right, you're up there with the scoreboards like in the Drakolich games, right?

 

Can you youtube your games?

i never said i was doing everything right, i just said i semi know what im doing and what i should do. but when your blasting the crap out of someone and he just turns around and blows you away in a single volley ...... what can you do :/

currently im kitting out the imperial scout , i've pretty much got all the new gear and its already going a lot smoother

edit: i did read those guides for pointers ^^ i made my scout into a gunship killer aswell, getting close to one can be a right pain in the backside sometimes on the atmosphere map tho ^^

@OP

General advice. You are going to lose ships, and you are going to lose matches. There are days where you can play 5 battles and lose them all.

The losing isn't the problem, starting a game with a new alt and a stock ship and finding a pre-made group of people with fully mastered ships and obviously using voice chat on the other side is the problem.

Aren't there supposed to be restrictions for the first 10 matches or so?

I don't mind losing, I do mind being nothing more than a target drone against people. Had two games this week with an Imperial premade on one side and a bunch of new players on mine. I think I managed a kill because I think I ran into a new player on the Imp side. I don't normally get solo kills at least.

They need to adjust the matchmaking a bit more. This is supposed to be a game where people have fun, not where one side acts like a bunch of juvenile delinquents pulling wings off of flies.

The losing isn't the problem, starting a game with a new alt and a stock ship and finding a pre-made group of people with fully mastered ships and obviously using voice chat on the other side is the problem.

 

Aren't there supposed to be restrictions for the first 10 matches or so?

 

I don't mind losing, I do mind being nothing more than a target drone against people. Had two games this week with an Imperial premade on one side and a bunch of new players on mine. I think I managed a kill because I think I ran into a new player on the Imp side. I don't normally get solo kills at least.

 

They need to adjust the matchmaking a bit more. This is supposed to be a game where people have fun, not where one side acts like a bunch of juvenile delinquents pulling wings off of flies.

There are usually not enough players for matchmaking to work properly. The algorithm is there but for it to provide "balanced" games there need to be enough players for 2-3 matches at least. Typically you get what you get, which is the total amount of people currently queuing for a match (usually enough for 1 game)

That being said, you cannot know who on the enemy team if any are actually on a premade. I often get accused of this when im soloing and happen to be on a team with other 5 shippers. Not that it actually matters, playing in a preform is nor a crime (I do it when I can)

Some of the things you have said like "getting blasted in 1 shot" or "getting blown up in a few seconds" tells me you need to learn some defensive flying =) I come across countless new players who do things that get the killed: not react fast enough when shot at, doesn't use missile breaks, doesn't LOS, fly's lazy slow circles, attacks me headon.... etc bad tactics will get you killed every time new ship or fully upgraded.

My suggestion is ramp up the defensive flying, even if you do nothing else all match just survive and annoy the **** out of people. You would be amazed how some simple flying tricks save your but and or make mince meat of your foes.

Goodluck

Lets be honest, yes experience is a critical factor but so are the upgrades. The stock ships come with incredibly bad weapons and sturdiness which is especialy true for the scout which will be unable to make a serious dent to more upgraded ships and mostely unable to defend satelites against an even moderately competent enemy. A great lot of good tactics are only possible with upgrades available and a great lot of bad ones are only bad because you don't actually have the necessary upgrades. A head on attack by a high evasion Battlescout and a head on attack by a paperscout are two entirely different things.

While you can still be usefull in assisting your teammates you will usually nowhere near the overall top (both in damage done and objectives achieved). Once you get requisition for a few upgrades this changes but with so many unbalanced matches beeing produced by the "matchmaker" it can get tiresome to wait 15-30 minutes just to get screwed again and again untill you finally have at least a few key upgrades.

Lets be honest, yes experience is a critical factor but so are the upgrades. The stock ships come with incredibly bad weapons and sturdiness which is especialy true for the scout which will be unable to make a serious dent to more upgraded ships and mostely unable to defend satelites against an even moderately competent enemy. A great lot of good tactics are only possible with upgrades available and a great lot of bad ones are only bad because you don't actually have the necessary upgrades. A head on attack by a high evasion Battlescout and a head on attack by a paperscout are two entirely different things.

 

While you can still be usefull in assisting your teammates you will usually nowhere near the overall top (both in damage done and objectives achieved). Once you get requisition for a few upgrades this changes but with so many unbalanced matches beeing produced by the "matchmaker" it can get tiresome to wait 15-30 minutes just to get screwed again and again untill you finally have at least a few key upgrades.

Few key upgrades???? T1 scout needs exactly 5k req to perform. You get that much on your first match with the intro... Power Dive T2... With that you can perform well enough. Add 1.5k and you get 10% extra shield and some evasion with stock Disto. From there you are good to fly.

Currently my JC latest alt is on a Novadive with Disto T3, PDie T2, Thruster, Armor and Dampening maxed.. About 35k spent on it... And I'm kicking butts without trouble.. RFL may be bad, but they can still land kills if you know what you're doing. Pods are the burstiest secondary... Booster is perfect for a hit'n'run ship.

Stop saying ******** about the T1 scout being weak offensively without upgrades. I can burst down *********** bomber with stock RFL and stock pods.

If an opponent is turning on you and destroying you in a single volley, then you misplayed, period. With a video, we could show you where.

Gear can't do what you describe, and gear can't stop it.

Few key upgrades???? T1 scout needs exactly 5k req to perform. You get that much on your first match with the intro... Power Dive T2... With that you can perform well enough. Add 1.5k and you get 10% extra shield and some evasion with stock Disto. From there you are good to fly.

The stock scouts problem isn't speed its the lack of damage and survivability. One or two upgrades don't solve the problems they merely make them less obvious.

Currently my JC latest alt is on a Novadive with Disto T3, PDie T2, Thruster, Armor and Dampening maxed.. About 35k spent on it... And I'm kicking butts without trouble..

35K spent on it. Even if we add the requisition boost and assume you win every single match thats quite a bit of time spend once we assume you lose about half of the games the time necessary increases significantly yet again as you get only half as much requisition and need twice as much to get the mission rewards. Even if you play everyday getting 35 games in a week is rare unless you sacrefice all of your playtime to get GSF rewards. What is more likely is that a player has about 2-3 days per week to play with perhaps 2-3 matches each day. So you spend the better part of the month just to become competitive.

Stop saying ******** about the T1 scout being weak offensively without upgrades. I can burst down *********** bomber with stock RFL and stock pods.

Sorry but here I have to call you out for talking ********. Not the least because you make the assumption of an enemy who doesn't react at all like... using mines or god forbid make evasion maneuvres of any sort.

The stock scouts problem isn't speed its the lack of damage and survivability. One or two upgrades don't solve the problems they merely make them less obvious.

Speed??? Nope.. Just a decent breaker.

35K spent on it. Even if we add the requisition boost and assume you win every single match thats quite a bit of time spend once we assume you lose about half of the games the time necessary increases significantly yet again as you get only half as much requisition and need twice as much to get the mission rewards. Even if you play everyday getting 35 games in a week is rare unless you sacrefice all of your playtime to get GSF rewards. What is more likely is that a player has about 2-3 days per week to play with perhaps 2-3 matches each day. So you spend the better part of the month just to become competitive.

35k?? Takes one week to me and I didn't spend any fleet req or daily/weekly reward on it. I keep my reward for after I will have every ships unlocked.. And my fleet req for crew and ships unlocks.

Those daily/weekly gives you 938/3125 req.. SO that's 9691 free req. Then adds 1000 req a match (with the bonus req you can easily do it even in a losing match), two match a day... You get a little more than 24.5k req.. Nothing hard here.

Sorry but here I have to call you out for talking ********. Not the least because you make the assumption of an enemy who doesn't react at all like... using mines or god forbid make evasion maneuvres of any sort.

You can easily tank one mine... The bomber (baring a Charged Plating build) won,t survive long enough to fire a second mine.... RFL still do 900 DPS in close range with a decent accuracy.. Pods add another 400 DPS.

Currently my JC latest alt is on a Novadive with Disto T3, PDie T2, Thruster, Armor and Dampening maxed.. About 35k spent on it... And I'm kicking butts without trouble.. RFL may be bad, but they can still land kills if you know what you're doing. Pods are the burstiest secondary... Booster is perfect for a hit'n'run ship.

 

thank you for proving my point 35k ROFL ... stock yah...

that was EXACTLY my point /facepalm

thank you for proving my point 35k ROFL ... stock yah...

 

My first game on "The Bastion" in a stock Novadive

And I am by far no "Drakolich"

My first game on "The Bastion" in a stock Novadive

 

 

And I am by far no "Drakolich"

i dont understand how you can get 45k damage with 25% accuracy :/

edit: that is not a omg you suck comment btw, its a *** i get 30 - 40 % consistently and i dont get anywhere near that damage, and its not like im not trying to shoot people down, on average i get 3 - 4 kills sometimes barely even 2 :S)

Interesting debate. Skill vs. "gear"... Yes, both are important. I find myself once again thinking that Verain has the right of it, but here's my "two cents" anyway.

I am a good pilot. Not great. But I know what I'm doing. I have good days and bad days. Sometimes I dominate; sometimes I don't. ~1300 matches played, split between two servers. I never referenced a guide, since I prefer the challenge of gaming by trial and error.

Skill: this is how you learn to avoid being shot down, how to react to changing situations, and how to hit what you are shooting at (accuracy--notice I said "hit", not "kill").

Gear: this gives you some nice situational tricks for survival (most importantly, DF missile break and reduced cooldown for engines) and adds the needed oomph to your weapons. It lets you take more damage and deal more damage. But if you are not flying evasively, if you are not hitting your mark, gear will not help you much. It might actually be detrimental because by making it take a little longer for you to die, it could give a false sense of security.

There is a huge difference between stock ships and fully upgraded ships. There is. Mostly, the difference lies in how much damage your attacks actually do. I find that I rely on gear upgrades like ignore armor and decreased lock on time to get my kills.

But put me in a stock scout or Jurgoran and you'll still find I'm not (usually) an easy mark. When you can say the same of your ships of choice, that's when you can be assured that you know how to fly.

Edit: To the OP: PRACTICE is the single most important factor in how well you perform. If you like the idea of flying a spaceship into battle, stick with it--you will be rewarded!

Edit: Hey Drako I think I saw you briefly the other night on TEH.

Speed??? Nope.. Just a decent breaker.

Yes speed. Because the only advantage that a stock scout has is the engine boost which allows for longer and more speedbursts.

35k?? Takes one week to me and I didn't spend any fleet req or daily/weekly reward on it. I keep my reward for after I will have every ships unlocked.. And my fleet req for crew and ships unlocks.

Most players don't have 8 hours a day to burn on GSF to get the upgrades that level the playing field. You might argue that without waiting queues of 15-30 minutes it wouldn't take so long but the long waiting times along with the often unbalanced matches are a fact and only stack the deck further against new players.

You can easily tank one mine... The bomber (baring a Charged Plating build) won,t survive long enough to fire a second mine.... RFL still do 900 DPS in close range with a decent accuracy.. Pods add another 400 DPS.

Once again you assume that the enemy is either doing nothing or beeing exeptionally stupid. I thought we had established that even a fully upgraded ship can't burst down an enemy in one salvo which is especialy true for an unpgraded scout against even slightly upgraded Bombers.