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Gating Endgame Gear behind Ranked PvP and issues it brings to the game

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Gating Endgame Gear behind Ranked PvP and issues it brings to the game

Severith's Avatar


Severith
06.29.2019 , 09:45 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by LD_Little_Dragon View Post
In regs you're supposed to do your job too. Your job is not number farming, it's playing to win.

I have zero sympathy for ranked players whining about people ruining their games, since it's players like you and the 'regs don't matter' mindset that have ruined 8v8's.
A few years ago, when someone lost a node in regs, people would say something like "***" or "Call out for help next time" or "Who was guarding that?" There was an expectation that there was a job, and more of a social "shaming" element for failing to do that. My observation is quite simply, that expectation no longer exists.

I love regs, (except huttball) and I only play objectives, and it's really sad what's happened in these past few years. But that's Bioware's fault, because winning or losing matches in regs doesn't matter all that much in terms of rewards. That's what lead to the current attitude about regs. Bioware is what ruined regs, the players can only adjust their attitudes to the reality that's in front of them.

So no, nobody cares if someone does there job in regs or not.

Back in 2.0, there were crafters who were leeching in pvp. They'd refuse to buy pvp gear, and having them in your team was almost an automatic loss. They'd spend their comms on pvp gear, and dissasemble it for high end mats. They were scum who were ruining the integrity of the pvp matches for their own greed. We managed to convince some of them to at least buy the lower tier pvp sets, so their expertise was high enough not to instantly die, but most just kept on farming losses.

I don't see any difference between those people farming losses in regs for high end mats in 2.0, and people farming losses in ranked for high end gear in 5.10. It's all just greed that drags the game down, and makes the real pvpers not want to pvp in SWTOR anymore.

Just to be clear, you're projecting quite a bit onto me that's frankly untrue. I play regs on a daily basis, and I only play objectives. I wouldn't call myself a member of the ranked community. I do think that those members in the ranked community, that try to have fun with it, have a uphill battle. Part of that uphill battle is people constantly throwing games. If you know your gear isn't good enough to compete, that's throwing the game.

Imagine being in a tennis tournament, where every match you get a random teammate for doubles. Are you going to have fun when your random teammate's racket is a busted up piece of garbage? When he can't even properly serve the ball? Why would he even show up, or play, knowing he was ruining the chances of whomever he played with? He's only here for the participation trophy, and that's all you're going to get as a member of his team too. I don't have to respect people who act like that.

So thanks for your input, Little Dragon, but I'll keep my "elitist attitude" thank you VERY much. (Brie Larson, lol) Elitist attitudes actually drive MMOS to success, and all inclusive expectations actually hurt mmos. If you need proof, look at the population increases in Wow in vanilla and Burning Crusade, and look at the population now.

Wolf_Knight's Avatar


Wolf_Knight
06.29.2019 , 02:00 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Severith View Post
You keep saying "gate", I only see a highway with differing lanes of speed. (This is for the main hand/ off hand, specifically)

1) You could just buy them from the GTN. If you have the credits, in 10 seconds or less you can have the main hand and offhand you're looking for.

2) You could kill the Queen

3) You could do solo ranked

4) You could join a raiding guild, and have their crafters make you what you need after you've contributed enough

5) Craft them yourself

6) The "pay to win" route: Contact a crafter, and ask what Cartel Market items they'd want in exchange for their stock

It sucks that ranked is so toxic, but there are alot of other options for people who don't want to deal with it. Also keep in mind, no one "needs" 258, except for ranked players, since all pve content can be done in 248.

Lastly, wanting the best gear, and earning or deserving the best gear, are vastly different situations. Causing 50 loses in solo ranked for your teams doesn't qualify, your greed is ruining their fun, and their chances to be successful. You are actually contributing to the toxicity in that situation Your team isn't going to know if that's by your intention or design, and the safe assumption in those situations that it is intentional.

The difference between regs and ranked is this: In ranked, you're expected to do your job. If you can't do your job, you're going to be fired. If I get put into a group with the same person that's been throwing matches (intention isn't provable) then I'd want to kick you too. I'd rather take the loss, then take the loss and have the person causing the loss to benefit.
I wasn't causing 50 losses, the games I played we would win some and lose other a ratio of 40/60 W/L, sometimes more losses but I was doing my job. The team we were up against all targeted me as a group, and I was a DPS Sage so I was kind of squishy. I missed the bubble in the seconds it took them to kill me with all four targeting me together.

My issue in this case as I stated earlier was "needing" to play Ranked PvP in order to get the Monumental Crystal, this has nothing to do with the Main Hand / Off hand as I already have them from the World Boss missions. I do better in PvP when I'm on a Tank or Heavy Armor DPS. But the character I was working on was my Sage.

While my frustration is more about the toxic nature of how people relate to each other in situations like this which is why I started this thread. I wasn't looking to start any kind of a fight over how people are playing to win or playing just for their own numbers. I'd like to see some refinement made to the objective, timing and scoring to make playing to win the objectives more important that getting higher numbers. I'll probably add those in the suggestion box thread unless there's a related version in the PvP forums.
What ever doesn't kill you makes you stronger - old saying

Or it leaves you weaker for the next, and the next and the next.....

Severith's Avatar


Severith
06.29.2019 , 03:47 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolf_Knight View Post
I wasn't causing 50 losses, the games I played we would win some and lose other a ratio of 40/60 W/L, sometimes more losses but I was doing my job. The team we were up against all targeted me as a group, and I was a DPS Sage so I was kind of squishy. I missed the bubble in the seconds it took them to kill me with all four targeting me together.

My issue in this case as I stated earlier was "needing" to play Ranked PvP in order to get the Monumental Crystal, this has nothing to do with the Main Hand / Off hand as I already have them from the World Boss missions. I do better in PvP when I'm on a Tank or Heavy Armor DPS. But the character I was working on was my Sage.

While my frustration is more about the toxic nature of how people relate to each other in situations like this which is why I started this thread. I wasn't looking to start any kind of a fight over how people are playing to win or playing just for their own numbers. I'd like to see some refinement made to the objective, timing and scoring to make playing to win the objectives more important that getting higher numbers. I'll probably add those in the suggestion box thread unless there's a related version in the PvP forums.
The only thing you can buy with the monumental crystals is the 258 main hand and offhand. Therefore, whenever you are talking about obtaining monumental crystals, what you are actually talking about is obtaining 258 main hand and offhand.

Since you can't even be bothered to learn that, but you still post about it anyway, I have to put you in the category of "people who complain in the forums but don't know what they're talking about". Don't worry though, I'm sure you'll find many like minded friends here.

By your words alone, you admit to queing for ranked pvp on a character class you're not good at or comfortable playing in pvp. That's not what ranked pvp is for, that's what regs are for. Your greed and misunderstanding is the actual cause of the toxicity here.

Wolf_Knight's Avatar


Wolf_Knight
06.29.2019 , 04:40 PM | #14
I'll double check my information, in other words I'll check the Vendors on Ossus again as I believe the were other items beside the main and offhand items that took monumental crystals to obtain. That being said, if I am wrong I stand corrected and apologize for wasting peoples time on the Monumental Crystal portion of the issue. That however, still doesn't change the fact that the environment has gotten toxic which while not where the thread started was brought into the conversation.

I'm not someone who just comes onto the Forums to complain, I'd really like to see positive changes where people take the game for what it is, A game, entertainment meant to be fun. i know people are competitive and want to win. I want to win but if I don't I don't kick a player form a team or verbally abuse them or even insult them. I will admit I called a group of rage quitter a bunch of pansies to the rest of the team in a hypergate match today. What's funny is that we managed to turn it around and won the match. In that case I was on my Tank Spec Trooper. As stated before this problem is with the DPS Sage I took into ranked to get the Monumental Crystal.

As for the not being comfortable or familiar with the class, I'm working on improving those skills but the only way to improve them is to play in the environment that uses them. I don't expect to be the best but I will strive me best to contribute meaningfully to every group and match I enter. I run the daily and weekly regs on this same toon but the play style is different there. Different skill levels and ways of doing things that can only be learned with the help of other players and or fighting against them in those types of matches. I'm not saying that people shouldn't get upset with a loss but many people complain that the queues don't pop fast enough or they are always facing off against the same few people. The Toxicity to which I was referring is what chases new blood out and keeps the wait for matches longer. It is a game, feel free to take it seriously as you want but don't be rude to others who may not have the same mindset. I've done PvP in many games,I'm better in some worse in other just like I am better in some classes here and worse in others. My own guild banned me from playing a healer because I am more danger to the party as the healer than the Enemy is. I still try healing in some games where it's an added skill available to all classes and not an actual role line in most MMO games.

As for the Crafters back in 2.0, I've been playing since Beta and didn't laps my Sub until around the time a few months before Makeb and Rise of the Hutt Cartel was announced. I was subbed once again from before KotFE until after KotET and Iokath. I've been in and out of the game from time to time since then. But back in that time frame I had all crew skills unlocked across my account but I also had all my characters that ran PvP in full PvP sets. Mostly my Tank Apathy. I'm not trying to get a free ride or farming losses, I'm trying to play the matches and win, I'd rather win and get the Points 5 at a time as opposed to farming 50 losses. As I may have mentioned before I do want the game to be wat it's supposed to be FUN and ENTERTAINING.

I'm going to log back into the game and have some fun now, I'll get back to you in the Monumental Crystal issue and apologize properly is I am mistaken on that count.
What ever doesn't kill you makes you stronger - old saying

Or it leaves you weaker for the next, and the next and the next.....

Wolf_Knight's Avatar


Wolf_Knight
06.29.2019 , 05:36 PM | #15
Severith, you have my sincere apologies for incorrectly titling the thread as you were correct that the only Gear Items purchasable with the Monumental Crystal.

What I saw on another Vendor were Decorations that would also use the monumental Crystal and I have no Great need for the decorations, I like them and all but there are better ways to spend my time in a game. I con decorate at home if I really feel the need. I didn't remember that the items were on different vendors hence the confusion on that issue.

Mea Culpa
What ever doesn't kill you makes you stronger - old saying

Or it leaves you weaker for the next, and the next and the next.....

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
06.29.2019 , 05:46 PM | #16
weapon is the most important 258 piece to have. lul
Krack

Severith's Avatar


Severith
06.29.2019 , 06:43 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolf_Knight View Post
Severith, you have my sincere apologies for incorrectly titling the thread as you were correct that the only Gear Items purchasable with the Monumental Crystal.

What I saw on another Vendor were Decorations that would also use the monumental Crystal and I have no Great need for the decorations, I like them and all but there are better ways to spend my time in a game. I con decorate at home if I really feel the need. I didn't remember that the items were on different vendors hence the confusion on that issue.

Mea Culpa
My apologies as well, I didn't see those couple of decos that you could buy with the monumental crystal. I'm guessing that about 99.9% of monumental crystals are spent on mainhand/offhand. That being said...

I've got several toons in full 258 that never set foot in ranked. I simply reject the notion that end game gear is gated behind ranked pvp.

Anyways, have a good one, and good luck in the future.

Severith's Avatar


Severith
06.29.2019 , 06:45 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
weapon is the most important 258 piece to have. lul
If your class/spec is mostly based off of weapon damage, that's certainly the case. If it's based off of force/tech attacks, like a dps sorc for example, then it's just another piece.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.29.2019 , 09:30 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Severith View Post
If your class/spec is mostly based off of weapon damage, that's certainly the case. If it's based off of force/tech attacks, like a dps sorc for example, then it's just another piece.
The big difference isnít just the weapons damage. Mainhand weapons donít Bolster. So you can essentially run all 230 gear and a 252-258 main hand and have max Bolster. Which works out better in some cases than having all 248 gear.

Thatís why itís important to get the highest main hand you can get.

Severith's Avatar


Severith
06.30.2019 , 09:59 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
The big difference isnít just the weapons damage. Mainhand weapons donít Bolster. So you can essentially run all 230 gear and a 252-258 main hand and have max Bolster. Which works out better in some cases than having all 248 gear.

Thatís why itís important to get the highest main hand you can get.
Categorically incorrect, as per your usual.

My stat changes on my mara with a 258 mainhand vs Empty Cartel Shell mainhand

Mastery 8676 vs 8573 = -103
Endurance 9511 vs 9488 = -23
Accuracy 107.52 vs 108.39 = + .87

Clearly the mainhand bolsters, because my 258 mainhand has 644 mastery to it, meaning the empty mainhand shell bolsters to 541 mastery from zero. Anyone can test this by walking into a warzone and seeing that while their mainhand weapon damage takes a massive hit (like I mentioned above) but their other stats aren't downgraded by much at all, and may even see an increase depending on class/spec.

Please keep spreading that bit of misinformation though, everyone who buys a mainhand from the GTN is good news to me and my fellow competitor crafters.

Speaking of misinformation and the GTN, are you planning on compensating all the people who took your advice to buy Charged Matter? The price still hasn't recovered, so if someone believed you, they lost 1 million credits for every 2 Charged Matter they bought at 1.5 million, which is what you told them to buy it for. The "good" news is that the other mats, specifically the NiM raider obtainable ones, increased in price. So the price for 258 mainhand/offhand stays more or less the same, the NiM raiders make even more money, and the casual players have even less money to buy stuff since the Charged Matter they get from random crates is now worth half as much.

Please do let me know your thoughts on all that, I'm curious.