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The Eternal Alliance - An exercise in Futility, and other rants about KOTFE AND KOTET

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The Eternal Alliance - An exercise in Futility, and other rants about KOTFE AND KOTET

nagada's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 08:23 AM | #21
I have nothing to add other than that I love every single rant in this thread and that I hope Zakuul and Iokath get destroyed by black holes and/or supernovae.

Foambreaker's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 08:26 AM | #22
I would have enjoyed the whole thing a lot more with just one single extra choice at the very start:
3. Kill Lana

Everything after Lana suggests we kill the emperor is just plain dumb.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 08:42 AM | #23
For those who suggest resolving the whole KotFE/KotET/Iokath thing with huge Deus Ex Machina...

Well, in my opinion, humble or not, Iokath is not part of the problem to be solved by a series of visits by Deus Ex Machina Man. No, it is the first step of the DEM solution. It contains stronger DEM in the first cinematic sequence than all of KotFE and KotET put together.

And that's why I (currently) refuse to play the story on Iokath.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

MingusPho's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 08:50 AM | #24
The Eternal Throne storyline is torture. I only liked doing Star Fortress, Collecting new Companions, the swamps of Zakuul, the Alliance Base, and the gravestone. Satele's return was also kinda cool. But that whole mess of a story and Valkorian and Vaylin were just @$!$!ing trash. I hate to be so harsh but it was actually painful to play through. I literally get nausea or drowsiness when I have to go through the dialogue options or watch a cut scene. Valkorian and Vaylin both make me ready to stop playing as soon as they appear.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 08:57 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
The entire KOTFE/KOTET story went WAY off the rails as far as SW is concerned. And it left them painted into a corner unless they intend to just turn the game off in the next year or so.
Yeah, I noticed that. I am actually back though because while the story is actually the weakest part of KoTFE/KoTET (despite being excellently voice acted) and mostly because it just feels awkward compared to the rest of the game and its story direction, the QoL introduced along side those updates really kicked the game to the next level.

I am back for the first time in a year and loving all the new QoL improvements. Now, that said, I hope that they get a better clarity of focus going forward. Most People play Star Wars for Light vs Dark (I am not sure how Luke's "the force is neutral" attitude is going to go over in the new movie - maybe like a lead balloon).

I haven't played it yet, but it seems like the latest story has the Republic and Sith at odds with each other. Good - they need to get back to this, and put KoTFE and KOTET in the rearview mirror as quick as possible.

What's sad is that this could have been the culimation of the story - done right, have both empire and republic joining temporary forces to finally depose a power hungry world-killing emperor - the original game set this up. They could have ended the current story with this, and then just added expansions to fill in as alternate stories to level with on the way to go kill the emperor at the end of the story.

Instead, they introduce a 3rd, unknown fleet and civilization and went totally off the rails.

I hope they can regain their focus. I hope they WANT to regain their focus. Time will tell. But keep the stellar QoL stuff coming!

ZionHalcyon's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 09:06 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by wistarie View Post
I have always find interesting that someone in EA/Bioware thought it would be a good idea to release MMO expansions focused so strongly on single player with a so much cutscenes. You don't need to be game design genius to see it has zero replayability and minimal retention efffect. And if you add so superficial story with a lot of plot holes and questionable SW feeling, moreover leading into situation you will have a lot of problems to contine in story...

It looks like one of that corporate high up stroke of genius moments
I won't hate the idea like you did. It could have worked given their limited resources.

However the story they came up with was crap, and was essentially done to undo what the original dev team did with the original class stories and companion relationships, in order to justify not having to keep up with all of it from a story standpoint.

NEVER FORGET THAT - the whole reason for KoTFE/KOTET was a financial one, to avoid having to keep up with all the companion relationships and class/faction stories. We got KoTFE and KoTET for purely FINANCIAL reasons, plain and simple, and this was the best they could come up with to accommodate those financial decisions.

KoTFE/KoTET makes a lot more sense in that context.

Zolxtren's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 09:12 AM | #27
The amount of Overreacting you people doing is lame....

sure the story is not perfect with lots of plot holes.... still one of the most enjoyable experience for an MMO storytelling and stop being a freaken bookworm and criticizing every single tiny crap in the story that is not 300% sync with the actual SW universe and not bends to your own made up story in your head............. this is a game not a book....

ZionHalcyon's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 09:41 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Zolxtren View Post
The amount of Overreacting you people doing is lame....

sure the story is not perfect with lots of plot holes.... still one of the most enjoyable experience for an MMO storytelling and stop being a freaken bookworm and criticizing every single tiny crap in the story that is not 300% sync with the actual SW universe and not bends to your own made up story in your head............. this is a game not a book....
Sorry, but this is a weak argument. People are reacting, not overreacting. Just because you're fine with it, doesn't mean everyone else should be. You are not the center of the universe nor the judge of all. People feel how they feel, and judging by the reactions, you are in the minority here, not the people you are lambasting.

I won't tell you not to enjoy the game - different strokes for different folks. But you should get off your high horse and likewise not be all over people for their disapproval.

And they have a point. Take any of the entertainment you consume:

if you were watching a football game, would you be ok if halftime all the players came out and played baseball for the second half? Would that make sense?
If you were watching say, the Blacklist on TV or some other Thriller drama, would you be ok if in the second half of the show, everyone started acting like it was a comedy like Will and Grace? Or if you were watching Law and Order SVU - would you be ok if in the second half they suddenly had to try to stop an alien invasion?

Confused to my point? You probably are, which is why people's discontent are also confusing you. You see, the writing up until KotFE and KoTET was consistent. There was a clear direction for your characters, a clear path. If you pay attention to the stories, you can see where the stories were headed. There is an expectation there.

And then KoTFE and KoTET came out and practically ignored ALL of it save for an attempt to shoehorn things into to justify a lower production cost from only having to produce one story for everyone. It tonally changed everything and made little sense given the writing groundwork of what came before. Malgus was supposed to survive his flashpoint and have a larger presence. The war was supposed to rage on between the Republic and the Empire. Eventually, the Emperor would be this world consuming entity that was trouble for all sides, and needed to be dealt with, which should have been the culmination of the story (and should have been handled with the mother of all operations). Someone who loves and follows story closely could see the breadcrumbs being laid out - it wasn't someone's nerd fantast at all. It was people who were smart enough to pay attention to Foreshadowing.

KoTFE and KoTET were self-serving from a story standpoint. It was a story attempt to rationalize a single story for everyone. It might have worked if well done, but it wasn't. It was poorly handled and mismanaged with a terrible story, even if some of the characters were interesting.

People who love story and care about tone spot it a mile away.

Those who are critical of those people, I can't really trust their judgment, because by their logic, it would have made sense if Harry Potter would have ended with everyone finding out no one can really do magic, and instead they were locked up in the Matrix and had to escape.

JamagsAwesome's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 10:04 AM | #29
A list of some of the problems with KotFE and KotET:

1: Everything you did before no longer matters, because this super awesome third faction came through and took everything over. Then why did we bother?

2: It's not Star Wars. Sure, some of the characters wave glowsticks around, but literally nothing else about KotFE and KotET is at all recognizable.

3: It's also not interesting. Why should I care about these Eternal Idiots? Give me one good reason.

4: Valkorion being Vitiate makes no sense. Imagine if he weren't Vitiate at all, and KotFE and KotET were about a power struggle between the two (due to the natural conflict between Vitiate's omnicidal goals and Valkorion's imperial ones)? It could be a war between the Sith Empire and the Eternal Empire, with the Republic running interference in a desperate bid to keep the peace and stop the conflict from spreading into Republic space. You get thawed out by your faction, and are sent on a Jedi Knight-style mission to kill one of the Emperors and break the stalemate. Maybe the Empire kills Valkorion while the Republic has to kill Vitiate again.

5: The concept I described above still kind of sucks, because it necessarily relies on the Eternal Empire being a thing. They're a completely unforshadowed third faction which has a fleet powerful enough to trash both the Republic and the Empire, they use the Force in a way that's supposedly different from Jedi and Sith but also so much more powerful that the space wizards we already had can't hope to stand against them, they're ruled by a guy who was already way too powerful, he apparently has kids who are very nearly as stupidly overpowered as he is, and I'm stuck teaming up with a bunch of Imp scum for (at least) the third time just because they got scared of the third faction of the week.

6: The timeskip is used as an excuse to completely ignore all prior continuity under the flimsy excuse that it's been five years. Suddenly, the Republic is evil, the Empire is at least weak enough that they pretend to be good for your benefit, all of your companions are missing, and honestly? Everything about all of this sucks and was exactly what most of us spent our class stories working to prevent. The class stories that were much more interesting than this one.

7: Lana Lana Lana Lana Lana Lana Lana Lana! Lana Lana Lana Lana? Lana. Lana Lana Lana!

8: Arcann is supposed to be intimidating, but instead he's a whiny not-Sith-who-acts-so-much-like-a-Sith-that-they-might-as-well-have-made-him-a-Sith. So basically, he's just some wannabe punk. Hello, Kylo Ren.

9: Vaylin is not intimidating either. She's whiny and childish, and her abilities really don't seem to exceed those of the average Force user by that much, and yet she's treated like this really scary boogeyman. Boogeywoman? I guess that's not a word.

10: Who the crap is this Koth guy, and why does he keep following me around?

11: Even if you're an Inquisitor, Acina still can't have an "accident" in KotET Chapter 2. Come on! I want to be the Emperor!

12: It keeps calling things "eternal" which, under the story's own rules, are objectively not. Like the Eternal Alliance. Which is made of a bunch of mortals using leftovers from Zakuul to fail at keeping peace, and stops existing within at least a few hundred years.

13: Why do we have to use the command phrase on Vaylin? It feels like a dark side choice the story forgot to let me not make.

14: Speaking of which, we're supposed to... sympathize with Vaylin or something because she had a bad childhood. The woman kills millions of people on a whim! But then we cooperate with her abuser and take his advice because clearly that will improve the situation. See point 13.

15: Justice for Valkorion! Your carbonite tomb awaits! Justice for Valkorion! Your carbonite tomb awaits! The enemy is everywhere! Go go go! I will destroy you!

16: Oh no. It's a bunch of Skytroopers. How am I going to fight them? I guess I'll just have to use my AoE to massacre them all instantly. Oh no. It's a bunch more Skytroopers. How am I going to fight them?

17: Seriously, stop making enemies aggro from across the map. The classes' abilities are set up so that you shoot first, Han Solo-style. While my obsessive nature sometimes compels me to clean out an entire area of enemies, I'd rather not be forced to fight an entire area's worth of enemies in succession.

18: Why do you insist on showing me scenes to which my character is not party? It's completely inconsistent with all prior content.

19: I am sick to death of those fricking monster things on Odessen. Because whenever I run into them, I have to wait around for them to de-stealth before I can kill them, at which point they go down just as easily as any other enemy, so what purpose does the mechanic serve?.

20: RNG.
Star Forge | The Scruffy Legacy
Satele Shan | The Shianna Legacy

Qouivandes's Avatar

06.13.2017 , 10:11 AM | #30
much like destroying a planet in a few hours after getting pointers from an armed janitor, i would have a hard time figuring out how they would get us back to being star wars again. One notable, though, in the movies the systems seem a bit disconnected outside of a few systems. so perhaps over the next 3k years the galaxy decides that a bit of local isolationism is better than being targets for power mongers and gooders.

i actually had a direction i was going but i got interrupted and cant seem to remember where i was going. however, it would be hard for a near god to go back to tending nerfs, though, let alone taking direction from "peers" who all but abandoned them during a time when they were most needed. who knows, maybe we will find ourselves frozen again only to wake up in the cargo hold of a ship that gets boarded by the Empire looking for plans for another super weapon. we are then tasked at finding the plans, but at least the planet will be familiar...tatooine.
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