The last battle, Darth Traya vs Revan, was the closest yet. Revan cornered Traya’s forces at Malachor V. But in the eventual confrontation at the Trayus Core Revan was mentally overwhelmed and fell to the dark side, becoming Traya’s dark apprentice. But onto round four.

For all those of you aren't aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simply lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

Before we begin, let’s just go over the ground rules again:

• The arena: the known galaxy.
  
• No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers. This excludes allies of the era, i.e. Ulic Qel-Droma, Aleema Keto, Cassus Fett, Canderous Ordo.
  
• No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  
• No surrender, fight to the death!
  
• No superweapons.
  
• Technology level is universal: blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  
• Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.
  

So, the combatants: Exar Kun was a fallen Jedi and Dark Lord of the Sith and used sorcery to bolster the strength of his forces. Mandalore the Ultimate was a powerful, visionary leader and brazen strategist who would go to any means to win.

Exar Kun had his personal Sith Empire which included an army of Massassi warriors, Krath, dark Jedi and Sith spawn. (For the sake of argument, Exar Kun does not have the Mandalorian Crusaders in his power base) While Mandalore the Ultimate commanded a vast legion of Neo-Crusaders and deadly Basilisk droids. Both combatants have massive armies as their disposal, but who will win? Whose forces are stronger?

P.S. If you have any suggestions for future threads, post below.

Victor: Exar Kun

I understand Traya's victory may disappoint certain people. But I did take in to account everything that was said on the forums (I even did a tally) and Traya emerged the victor. But console yourselves with this, Revan was defeated by his former master and possibly one of the greatest manipulators and galaxy has ever seen - second only to Sidious.

I think many will be upset over that outcome, but if you do the winners and losers bracket MasterMe and I suggested, Revan will be back.

We could have a tournament style Kaggath going on!

Exar Kun sends Ulic Qel-Droma to do to this Mandalore exactly what he did to the last one? not sure but it sounds plausible.

Or Exar Kun goes himself and challenges Mandalore, game over.

Why would you wipe out an opponents' powerbase when you can win it through an easy duel.

Well (at a glance) I give it to Exar Kun because of this:

There forces seem fairly balanced in terms of power, but Kun's army has more variety. Variety = good.

Also, Mandalore doesn't have the force.

What we need to compare is this: Jedi Knight Revan's army to Kun's. If Kun's is better, then Kun can beat Mandalore.

I understand Traya's victory may disappoint certain people. But I did take in to account everything that was said on the forums (I even did a tally) and Traya emerged the victor. But console yourselves with this, Revan was defeated by his former master and possibly one of the greatest manipulators and galaxy has ever seen - second only to Sidious.

Oh.. Beni, Beni, Beni ma boy: WHY??!!! lol.

K-Canon hath spoken.

I have one question for you (Beni): What if Revan Reborn had been fighting that battle with the same forces?

Exar Kun sends Ulic Qel-Droma to do to this Mandalore exactly what he did to the last one? not sure but it sounds plausible.

 

Or Exar Kun goes himself and challenges Mandalore, game over.

 

Why would you wipe out an opponents' powerbase when you can win it through an easy duel.

Mandalore would be foolish to accept a duel. That way Kun has to get to him first...

As I stated, I think Kun wins this, but I'm a big Mando fan. So I think I will argue for Mandalore.

FOR MANDALORE!!

Mandalore would be foolish to accept a duel. That way Kun has to get to him first...

He's a Mandalorian, all Kun needs to do is make it galactic knowledge, if Mandalore doesn't accept his Mandalorians will look at him as weak, it's a win/win for Kun, If Mandalore accepts, he's already won the Kaggath, if he doesn't, the Mandalorians lose faith in their leader.

Oh.. Beni, Beni, Beni ma boy: WHY??!!! lol.

 

K-Canon hath spoken.

 

I have one question for you (Beni): What if Revan Reborn had been fighting that battle with the same forces?

Revan Reborn? Very vague considering his tumultuous psyche

Revan Reborn BTC - Loses: Revan's attunement to the lightside would work to his disadvantage. The dark side energies emanating from Malachor and Traya would cut him off from the Force, and he would become easy prey.

Revan Reborn ATC - Wins: Revan had become pretty much insane in his devotion to destroying the dark side. His adamant resolve combined with his use of the dark side would mean Traya could use nothing against him. She could not sever his connection to the light, he would draw on the dark instead and Malachor would bolster his power. Traya could not convert him, he had become too dedicated to destroying the Sith. The only way Traya could win is by blowing his mind by showing him he had become the very thing he sought to destroy. Then Traya would simply cut him down as he layed curled up crying on the floor.

Revan Reborn? Very vague considering his tumultuous psyche

 

Revan Reborn BTC - Loses: Revan's attunement to the lightside would work to his disadvantage. The dark side energies emanating from Malachor and Traya would cut him off from the Force, and he would become easy prey.

 

Revan Reborn ATC - Wins: Revan had become pretty much insane in his devotion to destroying the dark side. His adamant resolve combined with his use of the dark side would mean Traya could use nothing against him. She could not sever his connection to the light, he would draw on the dark instead and Malachor would bolster his power. Traya could not convert him, he had become too dedicated to destroying the Sith. The only way Traya could win is by blowing his mind by showing him he had become the very thing he sought to destroy. Then Traya would simply cut him down as he layed curled up crying on the floor.

Interesting...

I won't elaborate since this is off-topic.

on topic: Exar Kun. Force user vs Non-Force User normally results in a victory for the Force user.

Off-topic: Revan ATC loses because the power of the force is as insignificant as the power of her hand. Traya did not sever connections to the lightside, she severed connections to the force. He is not a wound, he is a madman.

He's a Mandalorian, all Kun needs to do is make it galactic knowledge, if Mandalore doesn't accept his Mandalorians will look at him as weak, it's a win/win for Kun, If Mandalore accepts, he's already won the Kaggath, if he doesn't, the Mandalorians lose faith in their leader.

^This

Mandalore has to fight Kun if he challenges him. If they fight, Kun wins with ease. If Mandalore refuses, his soldiers lose their respect and faith in him as a leader. Now the Mandalorians are fighting each other to decide a new leader. Kun takes advantage of this and systematically wipes out the Crusaders, just like he was doing with the Jedi.

Ya know, I really want Mandalore to win, but I just don't see it happening.

I mean let's looka at the guys who beat him: Revan.

(I think) the main reason Revan did so well against Mandalore was because his agressive tactics. Kun's tactics will be even more agressive. On top of that, Kun's army is just all-around better then Revan's. I'm sorry but at this point I don't see a way for Mandalore to win. That's too bad. I like Mandalore.

Exar Kun vs Mandalore the Ultimate ?!?!

I am going to assume with lack of information Canonly or not that Exar Kun was beyond Jedi Knight Revan's Power and Skill.

This is not even a fight , Mandalore has nothing to defend himself from Exar Kun.

Beni I tried to stay out the last one due to the handicap you gave Revan that was all the difference , being if he was Darth Revan MV wouldn't even mattered and he was well into his Prime .

Mando's are skilled fighters but Exar Kun is no stupid Sithlord , hes well skilled and very Powerful Canonly.

Heck 4000+ years later he still managed to cause problems as a Force Ghost. Mandalor was no issue for a Jedi Knight Revan , he would have been no issue for a man who didn't care at all for Jedi ways from the get go.

Maybe I am being biased as I love Kun's lore and the Comic Series he was in , but the man was so scary the Jedi did not want to confront him face too face .

Mandalore has to fight Kun if he challenges him. If they fight, Kun wins with ease. If Mandalore refuses, his soldiers lose their respect and faith in him as a leader. Now the Mandalorians are fighting each other to decide a new leader. Kun takes advantage of this and systematically wipes out the Crusaders, just like he was doing with the Jedi.

I would disagree. According to the Resol'nare - the tenets of the Mandalorians - the Mandalorians had to obey their Mandalore, no matter what the situation. Anyone who failed to follow the tenets would be declared dar'manda, which much like 'Mad Claw' in Wookiee culture, was tantamount to a curse. Dar'manda were considered soulless and had no place in the Mandalorian afterlife, they were not Mandalorians at all.

So to turn against Mandalore would be to reject your culture and condemn yourself to hell - no Mandalorian would want this. The Mandalorians were not Sith, they were not plagued by infighting and were extremely dedicated to their leader. Neither were they stupid, they would see the wisdom in Mandalore's decision, going against a Sith Lord in single combat would be foolish - they wanted to win. The only way a Mandalorian could challenge the leader was by seeking one on one combat himself, and seeing as Cassus Fett and Canderous are out of the battle, no one would be worthy.

Challenging Mandalore is simply not an option.

Revan Reborn? Very vague considering his tumultuous psyche

 

Revan Reborn BTC - Loses: Revan's attunement to the lightside would work to his disadvantage. The dark side energies emanating from Malachor and Traya would cut him off from the Force, and he would become easy prey.

 

Revan Reborn ATC - Wins: Revan had become pretty much insane in his devotion to destroying the dark side. His adamant resolve combined with his use of the dark side would mean Traya could use nothing against him. She could not sever his connection to the light, he would draw on the dark instead and Malachor would bolster his power. Traya could not convert him, he had become too dedicated to destroying the Sith. The only way Traya could win is by blowing his mind by showing him he had become the very thing he sought to destroy. Then Traya would simply cut him down as he layed curled up crying on the floor.

Off Topic : Maybe this is why you choose Jedi Knight Revan who is still hindered by Jedi thinking and has yet to full discard them . I agree , maybe I just didn't see it through the last battle.

Off Toipic : Darth Krayt needs a Kaggth sir , I think hes underrated on these forums forsho !

I would disagree. According to the Resol'nare - the tenets of the Mandalorians - the Mandalorians had to obey their Mandalore, no matter what the situation. Anyone who failed to follow the tenets would be declared dar'manda, which much like 'Mad Claw' in Wookiee culture, was tantamount to a curse. Dar'manda were considered soulless and had no place in the Mandalorian afterlife, they were not Mandalorians at all.

 

So to turn against Mandalore would be to reject your culture and condemn yourself to hell - no Mandalorian would want this. The Mandalorians were not Sith, they were not plagued by infighting and were extremely dedicated to their leader. Neither were they stupid, they would see the wisdom in Mandalore's decision, going against a Sith Lord in single combat would be foolish - they wanted to win. The only way a Mandalorian could challenge the leader was by seeking one on one combat himself, and seeing as Cassus Fett and Canderous are out of the battle, no one would be worthy.

 

Challenging Mandalore is simply not an option.

I think Rayle and Aurbere over thought this , Kun is like most sith other than Palpatine who is known for his Patience ,

Plus Kun knowns hes powerful , hes not going to waste time with things he would consider weaker than himself .

I think Kun would do what Revan did and maybe on a much further scale , it would be a blood bath .

Jedi Knight Revan cared for his friends , Kun doesn't .

Sometimes I think if we were to put ourselves into this world , I can imagine Kun left a scar after his death that influanced Kreia and her apprentice Revan .

Kun is a legend without mistake , Mandalore if he didn't know , he would find out fast.

I would disagree. According to the Resol'nare - the tenets of the Mandalorians - the Mandalorians had to obey their Mandalore, no matter what the situation. Anyone who failed to follow the tenets would be declared dar'manda, which much like 'Mad Claw' in Wookiee culture, was tantamount to a curse. Dar'manda were considered soulless and had no place in the Mandalorian afterlife, they were not Mandalorians at all.

 

So to turn against Mandalore would be to reject your culture and condemn yourself to hell - no Mandalorian would want this. The Mandalorians were not Sith, they were not plagued by infighting and were extremely dedicated to their leader. Neither were they stupid, they would see the wisdom in Mandalore's decision, going against a Sith Lord in single combat would be foolish - they wanted to win. The only way a Mandalorian could challenge the leader was by seeking one on one combat himself, and seeing as Cassus Fett and Canderous are out of the battle, no one would be worthy.

 

Challenging Mandalore is simply not an option.

First of all, any Mandalorian can challenge Mandalore, and anyone who kills Mandalore becomes Mandalore. Whether or not they are able to defeat him is another matter, and it would be a legitimate form of dissent in their culture.

As for it not being an option of MtU to accept the duel... Sure it is, it's also a likelihood, it's in their blood to face challenge.

However, I will give MtU this: He has an advantage in space. Mandalorian Bassilisks brought Republic fleets to their knees. Exar Kun's strength in forces, well.. the Krath and Massassi were on par with eachother... but do we have a figure for how effective they would be against Mandalorians? I mean, we are talking Mandalorians. On Bassilisks.

I would disagree. According to the Resol'nare - the tenets of the Mandalorians - the Mandalorians had to obey their Mandalore, no matter what the situation. Anyone who failed to follow the tenets would be declared dar'manda, which much like 'Mad Claw' in Wookiee culture, was tantamount to a curse. Dar'manda were considered soulless and had no place in the Mandalorian afterlife, they were not Mandalorians at all.

 

So to turn against Mandalore would be to reject your culture and condemn yourself to hell - no Mandalorian would want this. The Mandalorians were not Sith, they were not plagued by infighting and were extremely dedicated to their leader. Neither were they stupid, they would see the wisdom in Mandalore's decision, going against a Sith Lord in single combat would be foolish - they wanted to win. The only way a Mandalorian could challenge the leader was by seeking one on one combat himself, and seeing as Cassus Fett and Canderous are out of the battle, no one would be worthy.

 

Challenging Mandalore is simply not an option.

Well, the battle would eventually come down to the two of them eventually. Exar Kun has several powerful Sith on his side, the Krath, and Massassi Warriors on his side. While Mandalore has the superior firepower, the Sith will make all the difference.

And if Kun personally led his forces into battle, Mandalore is done. There's a reason it took the entire Jedi Order to imprison him on Yavin 4. They were afraid of him. The Jedi Masters that would easily beat the Mandalorians were afraid to face Exar Kun. Not to mention Exar Kun killed Odan-Urr with relative ease.

The Mandalorians will put up a good fight, but Exar Kun is one of the most feared Sith of all time.

First of all, any Mandalorian can challenge Mandalore, and anyone who kills Mandalore becomes Mandalore. Whether or not they are able to defeat him is another matter, and it would be a legitimate form of dissent in their culture.

 

As for it not being an option of MtU to accept the duel... Sure it is, it's also a likelihood, it's in their blood to face challenge.

 

However, I will give MtU this: He has an advantage in space. Mandalorian Bassilisks brought Republic fleets to their knees. Exar Kun's strength in forces, well.. the Krath and Massassi were on par with eachother... but do we have a figure for how effective they would be against Mandalorians? I mean, we are talking Mandalorians. On Bassilisks.

Kun and his Sith Massassi , would eat through Mandalorian's in such evil barbaric ways , I think the Mandalorian's would eventually become to fear Kun's forces . Revan might have ment Mando's in their level , Kun would go beyond them .

Kun is a Sithlord where Revan was not , I think we can all agree that a Sithlord would do such horrible things to the Mando's that Generations later they would talk of them like Evil Gods . They would be telling horror stories to their children of Kun .

Kun and his Sith Massassi , would eat through Mandalorian's in such evil barbaric ways , I think the Mandalorian's would eventually become to fear Kun's forces . Revan might have ment Mando's in their level , Kun would go beyond them .

Kun is a Sithlord where Revan was not , I think we can all agree that a Sithlord would do such horrible things to the Mando's that Generations later they would take of them like Evil Gods . They would be telling horror stories to their children of Kun .

I would believe that if

A. Massassi and Krath weren't on an even playing field

B. Ulic Qel'Droma didn't want the Mandalorians on his side.

If the Masassi were stronger than the Mandalorians and equal to the Krath, then Qel'Droma would have no need to have the Mandalorians on his side. With a Bassilisk Droid, the Mandalore that fought Ulic had a pretty even fight, but Ulic still bested him, and given that we're not just talking about a "few" Basilisk droids... I'm trying to figure out a good ratio between 'em.

Still, in a 1v1 duel, Exar Kun would win, so how do we make it to where Mandalore's forces can overrun Exar's forces and bring hell upon Kun?

I would believe that if

A. Massassi and Krath weren't on an even playing field

B. Ulic Qel'Droma didn't want the Mandalorians on his side.

 

If the Masassi were stronger than the Mandalorians and equal to the Krath, then Qel'Droma would have no need to have the Mandalorians on his side. With a Bassilisk Droid, the Mandalore that fought Ulic had a pretty even fight, but Ulic still bested him, and given that we're not just talking about a "few" Basilisk droids... I'm trying to figure out a good ratio between 'em.

 

Still, in a 1v1 duel, Exar Kun would win, so how do we make it to where Mandalore's forces can overrun Exar's forces and bring hell upon Kun?

I guess if the Revan vs Mandalore never happen you would likely be saying worse because a Large amount of Revan's forces were normal Warriors with out Force Powers and they managed to beat the Mandalorians on every Level.

Oel'Droma has something Kun does not , "a Conscience" . He was often conflicted and tore from the inside . Not to mention Kun is not Qel'Droma , Jedi feared Kun . It would not be long before Mandalorians found a reason to fear him too.