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The betrayer arc makes no sense: Iokath, Umbara, Copero, Nathema *spoilers*

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
The betrayer arc makes no sense: Iokath, Umbara, Copero, Nathema *spoilers*

Burana's Avatar


Burana
01.15.2019 , 02:56 PM | #1
Avoid spoilers if you didn't play these storylines. Either the story doesn't make any sense, or it is not finished, and we are yet to find out who the traitor really was (Valkorion lives and was behind it?).

I played through the stories again, starting from Iokath, this is what happened.

Spoiler

Paulsutherland's Avatar


Paulsutherland
01.15.2019 , 03:05 PM | #2
The writing for this entire arc is just bad. I was hoping the traitor was the player under the influence of Vaylin or Valkorion and Theron was doing whatever he was doing out of sheer desperation.

Somehow Theron discovered Gemini 16 was watching the Alliance and the Zildrog guy was behind the uprisings across the galaxy.

Iokath, I'm assuming it was one of the Scions affiliated with the Order of Zildrog, though, if their objective was to kill the Outlander then surely it would have been easier to just slit the Commanders throat while we were distracted talking to Tyth.

I don't know what happened during 'Murder on the Umbaran Express' ... the Order of Zildrog wanted the crystals ... which wasn't brought up again ... the Alliance took some crystals ... and presumably lost them as we forgot about them too.

Chiss planet ... Theron found a map to a secret super weapon ... and gave it to the bad guys ... Thanks Theron.

Then we discover Theron and Lana have some super secret code they've been using since Rishi ... maybe start off with that next time? Then Lana brings us to Odessen to tell us we have to go to Nathema despite already knowing we need to go to Nathema.

Then Nathema? Darth Zash (Inquisitor) got outsmarted by Gemini 16 and Theron cost us a good portion of the Alliance and the Gravestone because he couldn't be bothered to tell us what was going on.

Burana's Avatar


Burana
01.15.2019 , 03:26 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Paulsutherland View Post
The writing for this entire arc is just bad. I was hoping the traitor was the player under the influence of Vaylin or Valkorion and Theron was doing whatever he was doing out of sheer desperation.
Exactly! I thought it was Theron or Lana possessed by Valkorion, but your version is better. The player character mind-controlled by Valkorion or Vaylin without us knowing would have been awesome, and a better plot twist.

krakadyla's Avatar


krakadyla
01.15.2019 , 04:06 PM | #4
My pet crackpot theory is that both Iokath and Traitor Arc are what's left of rumoured part 2 of KOTFE that allegedly got scrapped. It could have made sense if expanded a little -- maybe by showing what Theron had been up to via cutscenes, like we had with various focus shifts to Arcann and Vaylin in KOTET/FE -- a lot of events would look out of the blue at best and utterly nonsensical at worst if we weren't privy to motivations of the pair.

I cannot, however, come up with any excuse at all for the "Zildrog food" part. You know, when a number of vastly different people who should have IQ above room temperature just walk into the obvious trap for no good reason at all. The impenetrable idiocy of that event had probably killed more braincells of mine than all the booze I consumed throughout my life and whoever is responsible for that should try their hand in writing Cthulhu Mythos, since they clearly have the chops for the incomprehensible horror.

Celise's Avatar


Celise
01.15.2019 , 04:30 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Burana View Post
Avoid spoilers if you didn't play these storylines. Either the story doesn't make any sense, or it is not finished, and we are yet to find out who the traitor really was (Valkorion lives and was behind it?).

I played through the stories again, starting from Iokath, this is what happened.

Spoiler
Theron engineered the whole traitor thing by himself, he knew there was a threat out there and by selling the alliance and the commander on a bogus traitor scenario, it would buy points with the order of Zildrog to infiltrate the group and run a number on them. Theron found out more information as he got closer to the group by proving himself to them by sabotaging the alliance and giving them what they needed, but still leaving enough of a clue to make sure the alliance found out what theron was up to but to also warn them that a conspiracy is in motion.

The Alliance was tipped when Theron let some of the transmission out on purpose, and the order was rumbled without realising it, with Theron leaving more clues, things came to a climax and Theron had little choice but to blow his own cover and reveal that he engineered it all in order to expose the order of zildrog.

How Theron knew about the Order of Zildrog's goals is something i would still like to know, or for that matter how he knew they even existed in the first place.

JattaGin's Avatar


JattaGin
01.16.2019 , 12:56 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by krakadyla View Post
My pet crackpot theory is that both Iokath and Traitor Arc are what's left of rumoured part 2 of KOTFE that allegedly got scrapped. It could have made sense if expanded a little -- maybe by showing what Theron had been up to via cutscenes, like we had with various focus shifts to Arcann and Vaylin in KOTET/FE -- a lot of events would look out of the blue at best and utterly nonsensical at worst if we weren't privy to motivations of the pair.
^this. I've been saying it before and I'm still convinced that this was all (in some way or another) part of the originally planned trilogy and I think it would have made sense in the Kot-context. But unless Charles will comment on it, we will simply never now. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.
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aerockyul's Avatar


aerockyul
01.16.2019 , 02:02 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
Theron engineered the whole traitor thing by himself, he knew there was a threat out there and by selling the alliance and the commander on a bogus traitor scenario, it would buy points with the order of Zildrog to infiltrate the group and run a number on them. Theron found out more information as he got closer to the group by proving himself to them by sabotaging the alliance and giving them what they needed, but still leaving enough of a clue to make sure the alliance found out what theron was up to but to also warn them that a conspiracy is in motion.

The Alliance was tipped when Theron let some of the transmission out on purpose, and the order was rumbled without realising it, with Theron leaving more clues, things came to a climax and Theron had little choice but to blow his own cover and reveal that he engineered it all in order to expose the order of zildrog.

How Theron knew about the Order of Zildrog's goals is something i would still like to know, or for that matter how he knew they even existed in the first place.
Well, he, Lana, and Senya left us about 500 times throughout everything post 4.0 to "talk to their contacts" and they never tell us who they are or what came of it--perhaps one of those times.

And Theron is still doing it before Ossus--talking to these contacts is more important than finally getting a mission easy enough to tag along with his LI on?

Perhaps we have yet another planet-devouring maguffin (sp?) to deal with that Theron has info on and won't tell us until it's wiped out Odessen, yet was probably easily preventable.

Ugh
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Costello's Avatar


Costello
01.16.2019 , 04:04 PM | #8
It would be really nice if Charles or someone would come in and take responsibility for how bad much of the story has been in particular this traitor arc.

Of the many issues, so many issues the first is the use of Gemmi 16 who some how is omniscient, we just beat a god and now we must face a droid with god like powers. Its only explained as 'I don't know how...' thats because it made no sense. At this point we can't rule out the writing team bring superman into the story to deal with something, 'I don't know how he made it into the Star Wars universe...' and leave that as the explanation.

But it gets worse, Theron finds the map for them and gives it to them. Why the Omniscient droid needed him to find it when she can see all made no sense, but take that part of the story. Why not give it to the Alliance so they can get their first. Instead give it to the bad guys, and I think it was at this point he broadcast on an open channel information about the badies, this the Omniscient droid can't detect. An Open channel picked up by a smuggler is super secret, but secret meeting in a cave in the wilderness it some how would have found out so he couldn't risk telling the player.

If things aren't bad enough, a single horizon guard, you know those people you and Valyin killed in droves manages to take it all down. Didn't do anything while Arcann was having his 5 years of murdering loyal knights for any reason, didn't do anything while Vaylin was murdering anyone that happened to be near her. But you get the fleet for 6 months and use it for good or whatever, don't murder anyone on Zakuul and you are the one he wants to take down. And low an behold he succeeds. A simple trip to Iokath, finding a Gemini droid and he has all the secrets to unlock a ship you have owned for a year. Though you too have been to Iokath and had Gemini prime. Of course because the player's IQ is one step up from a pot plant and does nothing except react to threats and that reaction is always the same, they take Lana and bludgeon there way through. Thank the fates the writers are blessed with an immortal unstoppable hero that can kill everything, would hate for the player to have to outsmart their enemies, cause the pot intellect would never manage that.

So we have played through this 'story' often multiple time to get to make some choices that probably don't matter. It would be nice for the writers to come in and acknowledge they too realize how bad it was so there is hope the future will be better. Not more of the same.

Celise's Avatar


Celise
01.16.2019 , 05:16 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by aerockyul View Post
Well, he, Lana, and Senya left us about 500 times throughout everything post 4.0 to "talk to their contacts" and they never tell us who they are or what came of it--perhaps one of those times.

And Theron is still doing it before Ossus--talking to these contacts is more important than finally getting a mission easy enough to tag along with his LI on?

Perhaps we have yet another planet-devouring maguffin (sp?) to deal with that Theron has info on and won't tell us until it's wiped out Odessen, yet was probably easily preventable.

Ugh
This is the thing, a conspiracy requires more than one person and if neither of them give themselves away, how would Theron or his contacts even known about the order? Something had to of happened that drew attention to the Order of Zildrog, something that left enough of a trail to lead back to the conspirators.

Theron obviously had to record these conversations and have the alliance commander watch them in order to expose the conspirators goals, otherwise there would of been no proof and these conspirators would of been free to keep things hidden until the right moment. The fact is that none of them gave themselves away directly and Theron had to manufactuer the proof accordingly. This still doesn't explain how he found the order in the first place however.

tahol's Avatar


tahol
01.16.2019 , 11:02 PM | #10
I didn't make much noise about Traitor-arc when we were getting it, despite being a major Theron Shan-fan. But boy do I hate that storyline now. It doesn't matter if you let Theron live, he is as good as dead anyway. But we knew that would happen, so I just try to roll with the punches.

What irks me most in the Traitor- arc is that it is total, absolute nonsense. There are plotholes so big they form a black hole. Theron is written to be a total idiot. No, everyone in that story arc acts like a total idiot. I can't stand story depending on people being idiots. I had to stop watching Iron Fist because of that: Everyone was an idiot. Same thing here, and Theron gets the shortest stick.

This man who is shagging with my character finds out someone is listening everyone on the base. He can't tell about this to my character, because they are listened. DON'T THEY HAVE PEN AND PAPER IN STAR WARS? Not only that Theron Shan is unable to write or take my character for a walk outside of the base, later we suddenly find out that Lana and Theron had developed a secret code at Rishi (sic!), and Theron leaves a message for Lana using it on an abandoned listening post (sic!). So now we learn that Theron could've left a message about someone listening them or whatever. So which is it? He didn't have means to tell anyone or he did? Jesus stuff like that drives me crazy.

Now Theron has an implant so I suppose they had hacked in his implant too. First, he has control of it and I'm sure he can turn it off (don't know if it is mentioned in Annihilation). And still: PEN AND PAPER. His implant has a camera that can be turned off, that much I know for sure from Annihilation, so seeing something through it is not an excuse. He can shut it down. For sweet baby Jesus, take my character outside of the base and write with a stick into sand if paper and pen doesn't exist. I can't get past this. I'm not normally a nitpicker when it comes to stories, it spoils the fun out of them but this one really gets me.

So, the whole "Theron can't tell your character what he is doing and why" is the root of all the frustration for me. It is the basis of the story, and so the whole story is nonsense. It is nonsense he couldn't tell. He could have. No one can make me believe anything else.

And on top of that I lost my favorite character. Because of a worst story in the whole history of SWTOR. I'm not happy I tell you. They had to make Theron killable because that was what the peanut gallery wanted. He will never be relevant again. He had 30 seconds in 5.10 in a half-assed cutscene, and unfortunately I'm afraid that was the last we will see of him. My character might be married to him, but he might be a widow just as well. Some marriage that was. Of course they promised Theron won't disappear, but Bioware has a short memory. When they have to deal with limited resources, everything not absolutely necessary will be cut out. He will go the same way as Koth did.

I take major issues with this and I'm angry about it. Theron deserved better than to be turned into a moron and then allowed to be killed.

I left out the normal "everyone just knows everything"-plothole. I just don't have stamina to go there. I guess they are fortune tellers or something. Maybe see things from tarot-cards.