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What defines the cost of crafted items?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
What defines the cost of crafted items?

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
01.14.2019 , 12:17 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by BlueWanderer View Post
When prices for the crafted item are regularly below what you could get for selling the mats it takes to make that item, the item is priced to low. I never understood why so many people spend time making crafted items, basically for a loss, because they sell for less than what the mats sell for.
Or the GTN prices for the mats are ridiculously inflated.

For the blue mats the cost for running crew missions for them (not accounting for crits, since they're not needed) is less than 500 credits for tiers 1 through 4, and yet they're routinely listed (and presumable selling) for 3000 credits or more.

I buy off the gtn when mat costs are reasonable, and run crew missions when they are not. I will not inflate my selling prices due to the GTN greed when there is a set, fixed cost for mats already.

New players do not have 500K to drop on a crafted item than costs about 5k (using the mat costs from running crew missions) to make.

I would rather sell crafted gear that is actually USED in the game, then the mats that go to feed conquest grinding guilds.
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Stellarcrusade's Avatar


Stellarcrusade
01.14.2019 , 12:53 PM | #22
It typically is some function of what people are willing to pay and how aggressive people are competing for sales, but with a HARD minimum of (cost of purchase of materials + 5%).

PorsaLindahl's Avatar


PorsaLindahl
01.14.2019 , 01:05 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
It typically is some function of what people are willing to pay and how aggressive people are competing for sales, but with a HARD minimum of (cost of purchase of materials + 5%).
Which means -3% profit from cost? The GTN listing fee is 8% (raised from 6% in 5.8). So even then that 5% would've been -1% profit after listing fees.

What people should be listing at, if you want to actually receive 5% over cost, is list at 13% over cost. That way the GTN fees are covered as well.

Sarova's Avatar


Sarova
01.14.2019 , 01:26 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
So, in the end, it's more or less those with the big money who define the prices - because they usually have so much money that they'll buy ALL of your wares and then re-sell that with THEIR own price ideas.
It's "business 101", as they say ( I don't know much about economy science at all ).

So, in the end, it's only a few "big boys" dominating & defining the market.

In my case, that's the reason why I only craft for myself, friends, and guildies.
This is the only thing that defines the price for those who use crafting as their way of making money in the game. I price my stuff based on what I know is the best price it sells for and I won't go under that (when I see augments listed under 35000 I'm tempted as pointed out above to buy the lot and resell them at a higher price - but my lazyarsedness prevents that). I mainly sell crafted mods/enhancements/augments and dyes. Depending on prices I may sell implants and relics but not often. I will not sell anything else that can be crafted because in my experience it's been a waste of time and resources (I found main armour to be bad sellers for me). With my crafting companions all at 50 influence I often get a "free" augment/mod/enhancement or dye so a lot of my items are pure profit. Armours and relics don't duplicate and getting an augment slot on one does not make it any more valuable. I rarely buy mats but I do factor in the cost of the necessary crafting materials (such as flux) and the GTN percentage.
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Lord_Thorne's Avatar


Lord_Thorne
01.14.2019 , 02:37 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by tahol View Post
There is only one answer to this question: The amount of credits other players are willing to pay. Everything else is just semantics and waste of time. .
QFT - though I might add an edit "and what prices players are willing to post."
There's several reasons unrelated to real-world market forces that someone might buy or sell at ludicrous prices (high or low). Analyzing the GTN with real-word economics is about as effective as analyzing the Star Wars universe with real-world physics.
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.14.2019 , 02:44 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Darevsool View Post

For DYE's I rarely pay attention to them. Most of the crafted DYEs available at the trainers are ugly (imo) and the ones you get from the various rep vendors are the only ones I really like. I sell those between 30k & 50k each, depending on if anyone else is around that price.

The resource list for them isn't too intense and it's pretty easy to crit for an freebie.
WOW... 30-50k is way too cheap for most crafted dual colour dyes on SF. Especially when you consider you need 4 of each colour crystal, 8 blue mats, and 4 bonded mats (that require 4 green and 2 vendor mats). That alone pushes the cost price for those to close to 40k (depending on the lvl of mats needed).
I really hope you arenít one of the guys that jumps on and drives the prices down that low.

My cut off for dyes is 60k and that is the bare minimum even only if Iíve got overstock, I wonít get into undercut Wars below that. I find the sweet spot for the higher demand dies will quickly sell between 90-120k. Honestly some of the higher demand ones will sell at 120k or higher all day and we (usual sellers) canít keep up. This is when lots of us start buying mats straight off the GTN and you can see them disappearing fast the price going up on those.

I cost priced one of the best selling dyes (GTN mat prices) the other day when there was a run on them and it was well over 200k. We (the usual sellers) were selling the dyes between 99-120k. So if we were to purchase the mats the dyes would have been at half price. At that point the dye prices started to rise. I donít get greedy and I cap my highest at 120k. But if demand is high and Iím struggling to keep up, I just pull out until I get more stocked up. That way those guys who list higher can also make some credits. Like I said Iím not greedy.

Then the price destroyers appear and start listing the same dyes 52k (this seems to be their price) every day without fail and we all have to stop. I canít understand why they do it when they could be selling at the same price as we all are and supporting us keep the GTN stocked. Half the time we canít keep up the crafting of demand as it is. So driving the price into the ground is so stupid. So for 3/5ths of the day there are two guys that destroy the dye values. Then the uninitiated get into a an undercutting war and drive it lower. (I will sometimes buy those dyes if they become stupidly low, like 10-20k.

The slightly less demand dyes sweet spot is between 65-70k. The low demand duel dyes go between 50-65k. I donít sell those unless they are 60k plus. And I donít bother crafting the really low demand duel dyes or the single colour dyes. Its a waste of time and resources selling dyes for 2-10k.

Grade 5-6 colour crystal mats are some of the more time consuming to farm because of the distances you need to travel the slow respawns of them. I will often buy these on the GTN if they are below certain price.
Grade 8-9 colour crystals and mats are by far the easiest in the game to farm. I can get 200 of each colour in about an hour (depending on other farmers). But mission blue mats also cost a fortune with these to farm and the vendor white mats are much higher than the lower tiered ones. Over all the teiree grade dyes nearly balance out to the same costs as the higher grade ones. Usually the GTN mats are much higher for the lower grade dyes than higher.

Bidding/undercut wars can be a bit of fun, but undercutting any less than 1-10 credits is stupid because you donít need to and all people are doing is devaluing the market price till no one makes any credits.

The problem is buying these dyes at 52k is risky. Iíve been burnt before trying to clear out his listings so we could start selling at 90k again. But he just lists more or then the market is overstocked and heís already devalued the price so no one who saw them earlier will now buy them. You also need to take the GTN tax into account. Buying those at 52k and relistign at 90k would return you 82k as long as people donít start undercutting.

I donít just sell dyes either, I sell mods, enhancments and Augments (not the gold ones, the mats are too expensive to buy and Iím not going to farm them to craft). Iím thinking of giving up dyes because of the 1-2 fools that get on everyday and devalue them.

Balameb's Avatar


Balameb
01.14.2019 , 02:54 PM | #27
Quote:
Iím interested to hear from the other ďcraftersĒ out there about their experiences and how they work out their cut off cost prices. Are you also seeing behaviours like this and how do you deal with it. Is it worth me even bothering to keep crafting under these circumstances.
I craft a lot and sell dyes and other stuff on Star Forge, artificer name is Dulka. I have seen a lot of what you describe
What i do when that happens is just move to other item until the market gets back to normal. Basically, the Jedi way: Have patience.
I know its a pain, more so when you were investing a lot of time, credits and efforts in crafting those items. But it usually get back to normal, it just takes more time. Sometimes its only 1 day, some 2 and sometimes its a week. It happens with dyes, crystals, augments and also prefabs. What i do is keep my stock, craft other things and constantly check prices.
So yes, keep crafting.

Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Those who want to earn big money won't accept your lower prices, because they whine, then, that someone is minimizing their vprofits by undercutting them. I have seen now few threads here of people complaining about "someone destroys the prices by undercutting them".

So, in the end, it's more or less those with the big money who define the prices - because they usually have so much money that they'll buy ALL of your wares and then re-sell that with THEIR own price ideas.
It's "business 101", as they say ( I don't know much about economy science at all ).

So, in the end, it's only a few "big boys" dominating & defining the market.
What you describe can work for relative unique items (aka Cartel Market or rare drops). It can work there because the chance of someone else in the short term selling the same item at lower price is low. (It used to be even lower, but merges, direct sales and new packs got general prices down a lot).

With things like Dyes (that almost anyone can craft) you may buy a couple of items that are at really low price, but not several pages. It won't work cause there will always be someone in the very short term that will sell the same item before you even re sold 20% of what you bought. Yes, some people may drop the towel and stop crafting for GTN, but others will come.

I have also read some others threads like this, and also lots of people that think this posts are just whine of people that want the profits only for themselfs. Its actually the opposite. By posting on GTN only a few items at a time of the same kind and maintaining an undercut of only a few credits you let everyone have a place there and profit. If someone publish several pages at undervalue then none else can profit.
I was new to sell on GTN once and made mistakes like undercutting too much until someone send me an ingame mail explaing how to do better. Healthy competition is totally possible here.

An example:
Lets assume an item that cost arround 25k to make.
If someone sells several pages of that item at less than 40k and you consider GTN fees that leves you with a potential margin of less than 12k. That is terribly low, 10 pages of sale leaves you with less than 1M profit. Now imagine 20+ people trying to sell the same item, price goes even lower so the margin. Then, business for no single one.
Now if you start at a sale price of 90k and consider a do not bother point of 50k, that leaves 40k margin where a lot of people can "compete". When the item sales a lot sometimes you don't even need to start at the lowest price. I usually see if there is a close gap when the last ones undercut a little too much and i still sell.

So if anyone thinks that buying CRAFTED consumable items from someone at very low price is actually a White knight of the GTN, think again. Most likely is a credit seller that uses bots, a Big whale that wants all to itself (even if its for a few days) or simple a troll.

With mats sellers its a little different. There are a lot of people that are getting rid of their mats for space or overstock (a few posted here), that is totally normal. I sometimes buy from them and sometimes sell some of the overstock of the mats i don't use because Purple/Blues are not always balanced in what one needs depeding on what one crafts. There are also bot farmers selling, but i usually can spot them and buy from someone else.
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.14.2019 , 03:32 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by PorsaLindahl View Post
Which means -3% profit from cost? The GTN listing fee is 8% (raised from 6% in 5.8). So even then that 5% would've been -1% profit after listing fees.

What people should be listing at, if you want to actually receive 5% over cost, is list at 13% over cost. That way the GTN fees are covered as well.
Exactly right.!!

Buyers never take into account the 8% tax that Bioware get from every sale.

As an example. If you sell an item for 1,000,000 you pay Bioware 80,0000. So you only get 920,000.

If you see someone selling an item for 8mil, Bioware get 800k of that. I think thatís why Bioware donít care about hyper inflation on some items because the GTN can be a massive credit sink for those really high items.

Itís why I donít often buy cheaper to relist because that item ends up costing you 8% more than you paid for it. As an example (Iím using 100k cause itís a nice round number) Say I purchased an item for 100,000, I would need to relist it at 108,000 to break even. Add 5% to that 116,640. Thatís actually a big risk because some fool might jump on and list 10 of those same items at 90,000.

People always say on the forums just buy the cheaper ones and resell. But for me to buy something low and relist, I want to at least have the opportunity to make 75%-100% profit on the first one or two of them to cover my costs and risk. Then if the price drops, Iím not out of pocket. But I would never buy crafted dyes (even high demand ones at 50k because the person has already devalued the dyes and I would get stuck with them.

The only time I buy high demand dyes that are listed low is if someone is selling below 20k (usually a mistake or uninitiated). Then I can list one of two 100% of the cost and cover the risk and the cost. If Iíve purchased more I will list them at normal market price. (Listing that one or two doesnít devalue cause they disappear in a few minutes). Itís those listing 10-20 of them at the same time that devalue.

Buyers never take into account the 8% tax that Bioware get from every sale.

As an example. If you sell an item for 1,000,000 you pay Bioware 80,0000. So you only get 920,000.

If you see someone selling an item for 8mil, Bioware get 800k of that. I think thatís why Bioware donít care about hyper inflation on some items because the GTN ican be a massive credit sink for those really high items.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.14.2019 , 03:48 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Balameb View Post
Most likely is a credit seller that uses bots, a Big whale that wants all to itself (even if its for a few days) or simple a troll.
This is the same conclusion Iím coming to. And when everyone else abondons crafting the items, you can nearly guarantee they will jack up prices to unreasonable levels

Joonbeams's Avatar


Joonbeams
01.14.2019 , 04:01 PM | #30
A few things to add as a long-time crafter from day one. First is that Iíve accumulated mats over years. Hundreds, thousands from days when they were just a few credits. So people like me have endless stacks of blues and greens, and ample purple mats. Not counting Jawa junk. So todayís GTN prices for mats probably arenít a greet guide - Iíll be able to sell nearly any crafted item (pre 5.10) for cheaper than almost anyone else. And Iím not alone (I know who many of the long timers are).

Also note that people like me, who for years did nothing but craft, have figured out costs, pricing, etc. to the point where itís intuitive now. For example, I know what 50 influence companions can do on missions, how long it takes, how often it crits, etc. and then I know how many credits Iím getting from play (for example I always kill mobs, collect junk, and sell to vendor). For the most part, gameplay covers the costs of crafting missions entirely. A 3K crafting mission can be paid for with one trash mob, for example. Also, I farm greens (never run scavenging, bio, arch) and only run the crafting supp missions (the crafting vendor stuff). After level 3, this is WAY more cost effective than buying from vendor (or insane GTN - On side note GTN prices for vendor items like gifts and crafting supplements are a joke. Iím sure newbies buy purple rank 5 gifts for 18K when they ďretailĒ for 10K and Zoosha solution for 5K, etc. I assume this is why people keep listing these at these prices.). There are other lil tricks too (crafting missions, etc.).

So this is why some people can list items at seemingly under cost. Stay with it. Because inflation is out of control and things will get even more expensive, meaning stuff you collect today will ďappreciateĒ later on...