Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

What defines the cost of crafted items?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
What defines the cost of crafted items?

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.12.2019 , 12:34 AM | #1
This is a question with an answer that is different for most because there are 5 points to this and everyoneís idea of the cost varies.

1. The time or difficulty it takes to acquire the mats through farming
2. The cost and time it takes to get some mats that are only available by doing crew missions
3. The time it takes to make the items
4. The cost of mats on the GTN
5. Cost of white vendor mats (or mission ones if so inclined).

The first and third questions are the hardest to quantify because the value of a personís time is theirs to decide.
The second is much easier to work out because those missions do cost credits.
The cost of the fourth point also fluctuates depending on demand and what cost people put on their time to farm the mats to list them.

There is also a hidden cost that is often over looked and that is companion lvls from gifts and also the legacy character boosts for increasing the return on crafting (augmented) and increasing the affection from gifts. Obviously the higher the comps doing the farming missions or crafting, the faster they do it and the higher chance that they crit multple items.
This obviously factors into the costs, but most of the time itís overlooked and is nearly as hard to quality as point 1.

As someone who has recently got back into crafting after 5 years of leaving it be, I see some strange behaviour on the GTN with regards to pricing.
Often I see blue mats that are only available through missions or Jawa vendors at lower prices than it costs to collect them. Even from lvl 50 comps that crit.
I also see some people list crafted items that are much lower than the total cost of buying all the mats on the GTN and crafting that way. I donít just mean a little bit lower, Iím talking about prices that arenít much higher than the cost of the blue/purple items themselves. In some cases they are lower?

There are regular GTN sellers that Iíve come to recognise, the same as they probably recognise me. Most of us follow the old supply and demand premise to work out list pricing and often under cut each reasonably. Itís a bit of fun and I donít think any of us really get annoyed at each other because we donít devalue the items.
But then there are maybe 1-2 regular listers who donít follow this etiquette or the ideas of supply and demand. These guys come onto the GTN and drive the value of items into the ground so that no one else can make any credit.
Ok, I hear the response to this already. Itís a free market and maybe we were all listing our prices too high. But thatís simply not the case and Iím sure most of the guys who trade with/against me would attest to that fact.

Here is an example from the other day.

I spent about 30k to farm the blue mats I needed to craft some particular dyes which took a while even though I was using 6 lvl 50 comps. Iíd also spent several hours farming the mats.
Now there werenít a lot of these crafted items on the GTN, but the ones there werenít over priced from my past experiences in selling them. The demand is usually high for them. So I listed 5 to start with and went to do some more farming.

All 5 sold in 10mins so I knew my price wasnít too high and could even be too low if the demand was there. But I donít like to be too greedy or gouge the market. So I listed 10 this time at exaclty the same price. These also sold fast and were nearly gone before Iíd finished crafting more,
So I listed all of the ones I had left and went on a mad dash to get more mats and at this point I had my wife farming them for me too and had several Alts and comps doing missions for blue items.
I literally couldnít keep up with crafting and listing and I would guess the rest of my competition couldnít either because none of us were driving the price down and some were even increasing it as cheaper ones disappeared.

It was literally taking me too long to get enough mats so I started to buy them off the GTN and I guess others did too. This obviously pushes up the cost of those mats and the actual cost to craft the items. But as long as you are still making a reasonable difference between the cost and sell price (and you donít over commit), you can do this for a bit.

Then enter the 1 seller who arrives every day to drive the prices into the ground. He literally lists at nearly exactly the same price every day (regardless of market price) and it is sometimes half of what everyone else is listing for. He also lists so many that the market is flooded and itís pointless trying to compete because as he sells he also relists.
Some of us have tried to compete, but when you consider the cost of the actual mats and the time invested, itís a pointless excercise.

Now I know people can say, just buy them and relist. But once those prices hit the market the ďvalueĒ of the item drops. If you buy them all (as some of us have tried) and relist them, they donít sell fast enough to cover the cost of buy them before he appears the next day to do the same thing.

So what to do. Well what I see most people do is switch to another item he hasnít listed and has good crafting value. But as soon as he sees this he will drive that price down too within a 24 hour window (sometimes less).
What I donít get is he could still be selling exaclty the same amount he is selling, but at the price the market has set and make double the credits and not devalue the items. What he does makes no logical sense if his goal is to make credits off the GTN. I honestly donít know how he even has the time to collect all the mats he would actually need to make the stuff and if heís buying the mats he is selling his crafted items well below his cost. Often his prices are below what most of us would consider the ďcostĒ price for us to craft even when we are farming the mats.

Which brings me back to what defines the cost of crafted items? Itís a really tricky question and I know itís different for everyone. At what point do you just throw in the towel and say this is a pointless exercise with all the time and credits you are committing to craft and then have the same guy appear every day to drive the value down so much that it negates all that hard work.

For me I have a cutoff point and if I canít find an item to craft that he hasnít destroyed, I stop listing as I see many others do. Which drives competition from the market and people lose interest in that part of the game.
Now this might seem a wind fall for all those who want lower prices, but what happens when he is the only person listing items? Will he continue to keep the prices low or will he jack them up to unreasonable prices like certain CM items are. Basically if you want them you will have to pay his prices.

Iíve a working theory on whatís going on. My guess is this guy is a credit seller/farmer or a bot. He has plenty of mats because he runs multiple accounts to bot farm and then he has a bot that lists on the GTN for him. Either that or the person doing it is trying to drive all competition from the market so he can jack up the prices.

Iím interested to hear from the other ďcraftersĒ out there about their experiences and how they work out their cut off cost prices. Are you also seeing behaviours like this and how do you deal with it. Is it worth me even bothering to keep crafting under these circumstances.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
01.12.2019 , 01:14 AM | #2
I have level 600 crafters in every crew skill. TBH at this point I just craft what I need for my own characters and forget about putting anything on the GTN, because of the extreme undercutting. When I was selling things I never gouged, but I did want to at least cover the cost of the mats and crafting supplies, and when that stopped being feasible I decided not to bother anymore. I just make what I need for my own toons and that's cool.

I do think that every now and then someone doesn't know the ropes. When I first started playing the game I sold mats but I was not buying anything from the GTN myself. I thought that the 'suggested price' that the GTN gave me was what I was supposed to use to list them. Someone actually was nice enough to email me in-game to ask why I was selling so low and let me know that I didn't have to do that (and they were nice about it, and seemed to get that I might be a newbie).

But there are also people who seem to deliberately drive the prices very low, and I think a lot of crafters do end up giving up because of that.

JattaGin's Avatar


JattaGin
01.12.2019 , 02:51 AM | #3
I know what you're talking about and have often wondered about it. It's really annoying. I haven't been able to figure it out yet. But what happened is that I basically lost interest in crafting my items. I give an example: ship components. There are a few common upgrades and a few rarer ones. Those rarer ones always sold for a couple hundredthousand credits. Then came the server merge and one guy kept listing those for under 60.000 all the time. In bulk. Ever since the price for those upgrades is in that range. Since you need expensive and rare grade 5, 6, or 7 purple mats for those items, I don't see any sense in crafting these items anymore. Not for that low price. I can sell the purple mats directly on the GTN and make more profit.

One thing to keep in mind though: if you use jawa scrap and stuff, you don't pay anything for your mats. That's most likely one reason, certain people can keep the price low. However, I still don't understand why someone would list something for e. g. 50.000 if everyone else is easily selling the same item for 100.000. I find it stupid.

I understand very low prices in categories which don't sell well though. One of the few items I still craft regularly sells for a low amount, maybe 1 or 2 per week. If I offer it for just a little bit more, no one ever buys it. There are some who sell the same item for several million credits. And I keep listing for the same low price as 5 years ago. The reason is that it's the maximum buyers are willing to pay. The other sellers are just extremely unreasonable - and will never sell their items. But this is a different topic.
Bioware offers a friend referal system which gives referred players a couple of goodies (incl. 7 free days of sub and a neat free 10 x inventory slot for every character) and referring players some little shinies and cartel coins.
I would be happy if you choose my referral link to grab your free goodies.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
01.12.2019 , 04:50 AM | #4
Those who want to earn big money won't accept your lower prices, because they whine, then, that someone is minimizing their vprofits by undercutting them. I have seen now few threads here of people complaining about "someone destroys the prices by undercutting them".

So, in the end, it's more or less those with the big money who define the prices - because they usually have so much money that they'll buy ALL of your wares and then re-sell that with THEIR own price ideas.
It's "business 101", as they say ( I don't know much about economy science at all ).

So, in the end, it's only a few "big boys" dominating & defining the market.

In my case, that's the reason why I only craft for myself, friends, and guildies.
Complex minds
Cope with
Complex problems.

Screaming_Ziva's Avatar


Screaming_Ziva
01.12.2019 , 09:01 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
This is a question with an answer that is different for most because there are 5 points to this and everyoneís idea of the cost varies.

1. The time or difficulty it takes to acquire the mats through farming
2. The cost and time it takes to get some mats that are only available by doing crew missions
3. The time it takes to make the items
4. The cost of mats on the GTN
5. Cost of white vendor mats (or mission ones if so inclined).
You forgot one thing on your list, the rarity of the schematic being used. There are still some recipes that you can no longer acquire that also has to be taken into account when pricing an item (Dread Forged armors, Underworld armors, etc).
THIS is the Referral Link you are looking for.
Click for 7 days Free Access, 1 Free Server Transfer, and a Free Jumpstart or Preferred Bundle.

Screaming Ziva's Stronghold Tour

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.12.2019 , 09:33 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Screaming_Ziva View Post
You forgot one thing on your list, the rarity of the schematic being used. There are still some recipes that you can no longer acquire that also has to be taken into account when pricing an item (Dread Forged armors, Underworld armors, etc).
True.

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
01.12.2019 , 12:01 PM | #7
I have all six crafters, and a lot of schematics. For low-tier items I often undercut because for cost-of-making I used the mat costs from running the crew missions for them, not buying the often highly inflated mats off the gtn. Tier 1 crafting mats are not worth 1000credits, I'm amazed that they sell for that off the gtn.

The one's listing the 5K armours for 300K or more forget that there are new players in the game that don't have millions in their bank.

If someone is aggressively underselling on items from one skill then it is simple to switch to another crafter for a while.

What I find is that the people who routinely undercut by 1 measly credit, are the ones who will double or triple the prices when they're the only ones left listing those items. There is a reason some items get undercut by 50% or more.

If I find a seller listing something for 350K that they were previously selling for 199k when I had put it up for 200K then I will list for 200k again even if I sell no items just to screw the greedy sellers and make them drop their prices.
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy tank.

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
01.12.2019 , 12:14 PM | #8
I think the main thing you are overlooking is that this is, in essence, just a game. None of the materials used actually "cost" anything other than time playing the game (and, therefore, I suppose, the sub fee - if you are subbed).
You don't have to pay your companions anything to craft the items, and they can be crafted even while you are off-line - so the time it takes them doesn't really matter.

I realize that many people look upon the GTN/crafting as if it is similar to real world buying/selling, but it really isn't. Although I generally try to sell crafted items on the GTN for a "profit", in many cases, if I have a bunch of materials or crafted items lying around taking up inventory space, I'll just dump them on the GTN really cheap to get rid of them - and yet, somehow, the (r/l) bills still get paid.

I regularly sell non-crafted items - from CM packs, drops, etc - really cheaply just to clear up space.
I'd suggest that the bottom line is - although it's entertaining to try to "work" the GTN, you can't really expect it to act as if it's real profit and loss like real life commerce.
________________________________________________
A sieve may not hold water, but it will hold another sieve.
Referral code - http://www.swtor.com/r/dZ8wSV

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
01.12.2019 , 12:24 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
I think the main thing you are overlooking is that this is, in essence, just a game. None of the materials used actually "cost" anything other than time playing the game (and, therefore, I suppose, the sub fee - if you are subbed).
You don't have to pay your companions anything to craft the items, and they can be crafted even while you are off-line - so the time it takes them doesn't really matter.
Yes and no. It doesn't cost me anything to stop and harvest a crystal or piece of scrap on the road on some planet, that's true. But the items all require some sort of product from the crew skills vendor that you have to buy, and others require items that have to be obtained via crew missions. If you're crafting a basic thing that requires a 50 credit first aid kit, it's one thing, but the level 9 and 10 crafting items from the vendor run 1250 credits each and that can add up over time.

Crew missions cost money, and at the highest level, if you're sending out 8 companions, you're looking at between 32,000 - 40,000 credits to obtain a handful of mats for crafting. Which may or may not drop, because you sometimes need the ones that show up if the companion completes the mission "with extraordinary skill," and even with a level 50 companion you have no idea if they will or won't. Then there are the items that are even rarer, like CMTs and refined isotopes, which aren't easy or inexpensive to obtain (although CMTs seem to be dropping from command crates more regularly now). CMTs I think run between 1 and 2 million each on the GTN.

You also pay to learn the schematics from the crew skills trainer, although some of them might drop here and there for free.

So crafting isn't really free. For me it's worth it to be able to craft what I need because the price ends up being lower, at least for the more basic items, than it would be to go to the vendors. All of my toons now start out with a full set of mods, hilts and enhancements in their inventory so they can pop those into their weapons as they level up without going to the fleet or planetary vendors, for instance.

But it's not necessarily worth it to craft for others and sell on the GTN because sometimes the prices go so low that you really don't break even and it's a hassle to try to keep up with other sellers' pricing and play that market.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.12.2019 , 10:09 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
I think the main thing you are overlooking is that this is, in essence, just a game. None of the materials used actually "cost" anything other than time playing the game (and, therefore, I suppose, the sub fee - if you are subbed).
You don't have to pay your companions anything to craft the items, and they can be crafted even while you are off-line - so the time it takes them doesn't really matter.

I realize that many people look upon the GTN/crafting as if it is similar to real world buying/selling, but it really isn't. Although I generally try to sell crafted items on the GTN for a "profit", in many cases, if I have a bunch of materials or crafted items lying around taking up inventory space, I'll just dump them on the GTN really cheap to get rid of them - and yet, somehow, the (r/l) bills still get paid.

I regularly sell non-crafted items - from CM packs, drops, etc - really cheaply just to clear up space.
I'd suggest that the bottom line is - although it's entertaining to try to "work" the GTN, you can't really expect it to act as if it's real profit and loss like real life commerce.
I completely disagree with this. Plus I didnít ask what the real world monetary costs are. You really missed the whole point.