A matchmaking system would only accomplish what you suggest if there were a population pool big enough to discriminate. On all but probably 2 servers, there is not. So again, what you are suggesting is a retention of the status quo; a solution that will change nothing and still favor the pugstompers.

Population stats (and population stats of PvP'ers) or the above is an unfounded statement. Matchmaking doesn't "divide" a population, it sorts it.

Split queue's divide the population (making it smaller).

If matchmaking doesn't work, neither does split queues. Really, really simple.

Is it really?

 

I'll admit, it's one of those things we don't know without data we don't have (sounds familiar), but it certainly seems fishy!

 

Can you name any other big change that came out that recently? Something changed, if we were going by previous data 3 months should have only been a loss of 385k, ( 3months * ((4mil-1.3mil) / (24 months-3months)) ), not a whooping 1.3 mil!

 

So...

 

Something changed in the last 3-4 months, that change must have been bad as we saw nearly 4 times the population decay. I got it, it was Terrorists!

 

Point is, if you can point to Blizzard and say "They do smart stuff" I can point to it and say "Someone ****ed up."

Honestly, they had an expac come out. Now they're bored and leaving until the next one.

A matchmaking system would only accomplish what you suggest if there were a population pool big enough to discriminate. On all but probably 2 servers, there is not. So again, what you are suggesting is a retention of the status quo; a solution that will change nothing and still favor the pugstompers.

If match-making won't fix it, solo-quing won't either because if a match-maker couldn't divide teams evenly, then there is no way a random solo-que can either. I'm guessing none of you guys played during SWTOR launch when on 90% of the servers the Imperials out-numbered Republic 3 or 4 to 1, and because of sheer volume they had more skilled players than Republic. If you played Republic you were lucky to win 1 or 2 WZ matches a day. When a game has 2 separate factions, solo-que does not mean that skill has a chance of being divided evenly between two teams. There will be periods of time when only bad players from Republic are queing and only good players from the Imps are queing, and those players will never be put ont he same team (because they are on different factions).

Honestly, they had an expac come out. Now they're bored and leaving until the next one.

The above may be true.

Just commenting on the suspiciously well placed timing of Blizzards "stand against evil Premades" and the spike in dropped subs.

But ya know, Pirates stop Global Warming and all.

Or... <.< the projected change is already having an effect. Let's face it, Dev comes in bad-mouthing a percentage of their player base, tells people they've got this change planned (that is inferior to other options and fails to address the root problem), it hits the internetz.

 

doesn't take a genius to think somethings fishy.

very biased indeed. you were hoping people would assume its due to that feature, being already implemented .-)

If match-making won't fix it, solo-quing won't either because if a match-maker couldn't divide teams evenly, then there is no way a random solo-que can either.

futher more, split que will result in no que at all, while intelligent match make will make 100% win premade be paired with 100% lose pug against 50% win/lose 8 pugs, giving an edge to that avarage players (cause as we all know it's easier to lose -not calling incs, going afk,running away-a game then to win it)

ofcourse that's mathematically impossible situation, I know. it was just to picture how it could work on low pop like mine (after midnight uk time I think we have 3 pvp matches at same time +-1)

very biased indeed. you were hoping people would assume its due to that feature, being already implemented .-)

It is more logical (If one is to assume the Premade vs. PuG issue does in fact play a factor in the sudden spike) that a new element (Blizzard Stance, planned changes) caused the new effect (Spike in Sub Cancelation) then that an old problem (PuGstomping) suddenly caused the new effect.

Really can't argue with that.

Hahahahahhahaha...

Oh, I totally just laughed myself to death. So I went to investigate this WoW "split queue's" solution.

Here:

 

In patch 5.1, we resolved some issues regarding how Addons interact with the Battleground queue system. It is no longer possible to automate queuing for standard or random Battlegrounds in groups larger than 5. We decided to make this change in order to improve the experience for all players who are queueing into random groups normally and expecting to face similarly random groups, only to find themselves crushed by a full team of coordinated opponents.

Now I may only have an American education, but I don't see anything about splitting the queue's. The -only- thing it does is stops the "Super Queue" Ie, the Queuing of more than 5 players on purpose into a BG. Which if this is what ToR did (prevent the 8-man queue sync) I don't think you'd find a player in this thread in opposition.

I of course, relish the opportunity to be educated in an actual "Blizzard is Splitting groups from solo" post, my search has turned up empty.

Edit: Fixed the R in American. Sorry, typo's bug me.

Hahahahahhahaha...

 

Oh, I totally just laughed myself to death. So I went to investigate this WoW "split queue's" solution.

 

Here:

 

 

 

Now I may only have an Ameican education, but I don't see anything about splitting the queue's. The -only- thing it does is stops the "Super Queue" Ie, the Queuing of more than 5 players on purpose into a BG. Which if this is what ToR did (prevent the 8-man queue sync) I don't think you'd find a player in this thread in opposition.

 

I of course, relish the opportunity to be educated in an actual "Blizzard is Splitting groups from solo" post, my search has turned up empty.

now that's gold

Hahahahahhahaha...

 

Oh, I totally just laughed myself to death. So I went to investigate this WoW "split queue's" solution.

 

Here:

 

 

 

Now I may only have an American education, but I don't see anything about splitting the queue's. The -only- thing it does is stops the "Super Queue" Ie, the Queuing of more than 5 players on purpose into a BG. Which if this is what ToR did (prevent the 8-man queue sync) I don't think you'd find a player in this thread in opposition.

 

I of course, relish the opportunity to be educated in an actual "Blizzard is Splitting groups from solo" post, my search has turned up empty.

 

 

Edit: Fixed the R in American. Sorry, typo's bug me.

There's is no place for research in this thread. Doing research is an advantage smart players use to defeat lesser players. It should not be allowed.

There's is no place for research in this thread. Doing research is an advantage smart players use to defeat lesser players. It should not be allowed.

only premades do research

There's is no place for research in this thread. Doing research is an advantage smart players use to defeat lesser players. It should not be allowed.

Sorry, I tried using assumed facts, complex logical fallacies, half truths, intimidation, appeals to honor, appeals to sex, appeals to a higher power, and vulgarity. Q.Q I needed some advantage!

Edit: ARE CAPITALIZED STATEMENTS WITH LOTS OF EXCLAMATION POINTS STILL LEGAL?!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Sorry, I tried using assumed facts, complex logical fallacies, half truths, intimidation, appeals to honor, appeals to sex, appeals to a higher power, and vulgarity. Q.Q I needed some advantage!

 

Edit: ARE CAPITALIZED STATEMENTS WITH LOTS OF EXCLAMATION POINTS STILL LEGAL?!!!!!!!!!!!!1

You also forgot to make up a percentage to support your opinion.

You also forgot to make up a percentage to support your opinion.

Should I throw in an analogy?

Lets say 55% of beach related accidents are caused by sand castles in volleyball courts. That's a majority of accidents caused by volleyballers stomping sand castles, therefore Groups like to PuGStomp and volleyball courts should be redesigned to accommodate the 75% of people who think they should build their castles in them.

Ps. There is also a Pineapple under the sea, therefor nothing is impossible if you believe.

Should I throw in an analogy?

 

Lets say 55% of beach related accidents are caused by sand castles in volleyball courts. That's a majority of accidents caused by volleyballers stomping sand castles, therefore Groups like to PuGStomp and volleyball courts should be redesigned to accommodate the 75% of people who think they should build their castles in them.

 

Ps. There is also a Pineapple under the sea, therefor nothing is impossible if you believe.

95% of all people thing you just won this thread.

This thread bigger, than thread with crying mercs... but mercs get electronet and 11k crits after all crying, soooooo...

Mercs had a legitimate complaint.

PuG's that face groups then cry do not.

There is a legitimate complaint here (no Matchmaking!) of course, but it tends to get drowned out by unreasonable, singled-minded, one-sided, selfish QQ despite all the evidence and/or compromise offered.

This thread bigger, than thread with crying mercs... but mercs get electronet and 11k crits after all crying, soooooo...

still on the Mercs are OP train, eh?

still on the Mercs are OP train, eh?

Even if mercs were doing 30k crits I'd think it should stay in game for at least a month or two to make up for the last 8.

While we're on the subject of forbidden research:

While I can't find a specific page stating Rift has split queue's, I did find things that sounds like it. Shockingly, a lot of the complaints are exactly as predicted in this thread.

Some examples in this thread dated May, 2013: Long Queue times in groups?

Note the issues with long group queues, logistic issues with 3-man, a suggestion to attempt queue syncing in the "PuG bracket." That's all on the first page.

Some more in this thread dated June, 2013: Problems Queueing as 3-man.

Again, logistical issue queueing as 3-man, suggestions to queue sync.

Some more in this thread dated April, 2013: Pug Warfronts

Lopsided matches, not enough healers, players won't change specs, PvE geared players, etc...

Just felt I'd share. Have fun with that!

Even if mercs were doing 30k crits I'd think it should stay in game for at least a month or two to make up for the last 8.

That's a little much, but if they could 1 shot only Operative heals Id be OK with it.

That's a little much, but if they could 1 shot only Operative heals Id be OK with it.

Electronet - in addition to it's normal function, now when placed on an Operative Healer makes them take damage proportional to the amount of HoTs they have on their teammates. Have a nice day, Operatives.

Electronet - in addition to it's normal function, now when placed on an Operative Healer makes them take damage proportional to the amount of HoTs they have on their teammates. Have a nice day, Operatives.

Add a proportional gain of 5 and you have me sold.

Electronet - in addition to it's normal function, now when placed on an Operative, the target is automatically disconnected and their subscription is cancelled. Have a nice day, Operatives.

fixed for ya.

payback for all those evil Operatives that stunlocked people into unsubscribing.

I did the research. It's clear you didn't, and just cherry picked the first move made by Blizzard to begin curbing premade v. pug activity. Here's an article about the subject, in it's entirety. Please read the whole thing before you comment. The writer of the article's text is in yellow, the Blizzard dev's is in blue, and some questions he responded to from the WoW community are in green. I've bolded some passages for emphasis. It's from: http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/12/05/blizzard-takes-a-stand-against-pre-mades-battleground-groups/

Blizzard Community Manager Daxxarri has been very active in the past 24 hours in a topic on the patch 5.1 changes to battleground queues. He's been responding to criticism of these changes, and, at the same time, being characteristically forthright on the issue of pre-mades.

Quote:

if you break it down, what does a full oQueue premade bring to the table that is unfair?

I'll try to break it down as clearly as I can:

Any addon that enables a full, organized Battleground group to queue against a randomly assembled group is creating a scenario where that coordinated group has a huge advantage. That is not in the spirit of the experience we want to provide in the normal Battleground queue. Playing with friends is fun and important, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the spirit of the game nor the fun of others.

The normal Battleground queue is for players to jump in and play against other players in a similar situation. We realize that it's not a perfect system, and we're still looking at ways to improve normal Battleground queues further. Regardless, it's not meant for organized groups to "pug stomp" and get quick Honor. We have built in outlets for players that want to organize--if a competitive, social experience was really the goal, then there are clear ways to achieve that.

The ultimate effect that this kind of queuing has had is to drive players away from PvP. Perhaps it's been a long time since you've been in a random group, but a lot of players will see that they're up against a premade and simply quit. At best, they suffer through it. To an extent premade groups count on this. Heck, one of the popular addons announces opposing players that appear to have rage quit.

Addons aren't really a viable solution for botting issues, but we do take those issues seriously and we'll continue our work on improvements to the Battleground system, including better ways to deal with botting and other exploitative gameplay.

It certainly seems hard to argue that a pre-made, organized group, communicating over voice chat or other methods has no advantage over a group of random strangers with little communication. Even a modicum of organization helps in random battlegrounds.

As a PvPer myself, I heartily support any move taken to remove pre-mades from randomly matched PvP. As Daxxarri rightly states, the place for organized pre-made vs. pre-made play is rated battlegrounds, or wargames, and this is where pre-mades should be, not facing off against PuGs. All premade vs. PuG battlegrounds do is serve to discourage and frustrate the PuG team: this isn't "true PvP", as advocates of pre-mades like the "Rath Strat" like to assert. Yes, there are disparities in gear and the like that make for imbalance, but two wrongs don't make a right, and pre-mades only worsen the problem.

Daxxarri's second post addresses a couple of other prevalent complaints.

Daxxarri

Quote:

Posted by Xaeva

Now let us be honest, due to these addons and people like Rathamus and Tiny, regular Battleground PVP had picked up and was growing by leaps and bounds. That is what alerted you. More and more people were turning to the "coordinated" PVP and fewer and fewer "random groups" were being formed. The BG's were no longer sitting idle.

False. That is neither what 'alerted' us, nor were Battlegrounds ever even close to sitting idle.

What is true that there's been an increase in pre-made groups disrupting the PvP experience for other players, though. Pre-mades in the normal queue, however they are formed, are not something that we've ever been particularly fond of. It had become more of an issue of late, so we addressed it accordingly.

I know for a fact, that more and more of our games were against other "coordinated" opposing players. Battles became longer, harder and a whole hell of a lot more fun! They were not the Farm fest you claim they were, they were true Player vs Player games. Not scripted, not forced on anyone, not the repetitive grind of the normal wow game.

Perhaps this seemed to be your personal experience, but I assure you that this was far from generally the case. Regardless, what of the games that you played that weren't against other pre-mades? Just hapless casualties to your fun, I suppose?

Based on your enthusiasm for "true Player vs Player" combat, I'm sure that you'll find War Games and Rated Battlegrounds quite compelling.

12/04/2012 03:01 PM Posted by Xaeva

You gave us everything we needed, including the idea, but then turned around and slapped our hands, pointed a finger, called us a name and said, this is NOT for you, it is for the REAL players.

You've made the assumption that all those things were accomplished expressly so that you could queue into battlegrounds as an organized group against disorganized opponents? That assumption is mistaken. If you want organized PvP against organized opponents, as you claim, that experience is readily available.

No one's wrist was slapped. There have been no suspensions over this issue. We're just making our stance on the subject clear, so that there's no room for misunderstanding.

12/04/2012 02:21 PM Posted by Evannder

Fix the bot problem and you'll see the premade "problem" fix itself.

Bots are a separate problem, with a separate solution. Please stop conflating the two, because, and I'll say this as respectfully as I can: this is complete nonsense.

Put simply, this argument is a red herring. For as long as there's been Battleground PvP, there have been players looking for a way to destroy their enemies to quickly and easily get fast rewards with a minimal time investment. That's the bottom line here, or the variety of other options available would be more compelling.

Bots aren't an issue in War Games or Rated Battlegrounds.

source

I hope that Blizzard's team continue to closely monitor the pre-made situation and continue to take steps against it. Perhaps the return of the skirmish system, or a similar system for pre-mades to take on other pre-mades without the pressure of rating would help to alleviate the complaints?

My argument has never been that Blizzard has already implemented every step they plan to take on this issue. My argument has never been that they've even BEGUN to do so. My argument is that Blizzard has publicly stated, with extreme prejudice, that premades vs pugs in regular BGs is entirely wrong and needs to stop, and they're in the process of taking steps to do it (all of which is clearly laid out above).

They've never said "We're only against super-q'ing." They all but flat-out state in the above quote that premades should be in their version of ranked BGs rather than farming pugs in regs. Sound familiar? Do your homework folks, and stop cherry picking to support a shaky position.

And remember another thing----BGs in WoW accomodate a LOT more people than a match in TOR, even 10 v 10 at the minimum and mostly 15v15. One premade group in a match that large has a MUCH smaller chance of utterly tipping the balance than in TOR, where a premade of 4 = half of one team. This has been pointed out before, numerous times in this thread.