I almost wish they would put in a solo queue so the people complaining about premades can see how bad they continue to perform. You'll notice that those times you got focused and thought it was some well oiled mammoth group taking you out was actually someone on the other side marking you as a healer and the people actually attacking you. Just because you are solo queuing and don't have access to a VOIP doesn't mean you can't play like a coordinated team. Stop leaving one person at a node when there is a call at the other one or worse leaving it undefended. A call of 3 should be answered by 3 people so you have 4v3 if no one is at your node. If you can see 5 people in front of you heading to defend, hang back. Play like a team, win like a team.

I almost wish they would put in a solo queue so the people complaining about premades can see how bad they continue to perform. You'll notice that those times you got focused and thought it was some well oiled mammoth group taking you out was actually someone on the other side marking you as a healer and the people actually attacking you. Just because you are solo queuing and don't have access to a VOIP doesn't mean you can't play like a coordinated team. Stop leaving one person at a node when there is a call at the other one or worse leaving it undefended. A call of 3 should be answered by 3 people so you have 4v3 if no one is at your node. If you can see 5 people in front of you heading to defend, hang back. Play like a team, win like a team.

 

The only time that ever happens in a pug is when you happen to get grouped with good players. Most of the time you get queued with lone wolfs that go off and do their own thing. Also one of the biggest downfalls of pugs is that almost no one wants to defend so either no one will stay and the enemy will cap it with no opposition or the guy guarding it won't even call inc or will be so badly geared they can't even 1v1.

You obviously didn't read or comprehend what I was saying if that's what you got. I said I'd rather Swtor Die and be remembered as a good game, then have it live and be so easy that logging in rewards you.

 

"loggging in rewards you" ,yes that is a games basic function,,in can do that in several ways

 

good community(), good game play, supporting different playstyles,immersion,,

 

and the ability to do PVP against players with roughly same qualities is a must

 

if they put PUGs up against premades, then premades should have their rewards drastically cut,

 

since they are basically farming easy kills,,and if the kills arent easy, then group is not good

Edited November 12, 2012 by simplius

The only time that ever happens in a pug is when you happen to get grouped with good players. Most of the time you get queued with lone wolfs that go off and do their own thing. Also one of the biggest downfalls of pugs is that almost no one wants to defend so either no one will stay and the enemy will cap it with no opposition or the guy guarding it won't even call inc or will be so badly geared they can't even 1v1.

 

This is what I'm trying to drive at here.

 

The BIGGEST problem is pugs doing random stupid ****, which is equivalent to *********** around in OPS. You think people want to play with people who do stupid ****. This is why we have guilds in the game, this is why we have premades in the game. They exist to eliminate this problem.

 

This whole premise of a thread is about how OP a premade is, but a PuG can put the sword to the Premade if they work as a well oiled team and win. But noooooooooo, its OP nerf premade because they're just to farm pugs. Well no **** they're going to farm pugs because their stupid like sheep. If the sheep pug becomes wolves then that premade is going to have a fight on their hands and can lose, but nooooo.

 

The only real complaint thats valid is the resolve system, and the Bubbles (yes I play a Sith Sorc and think its OP, but the real problem again is the resolve system that people have pointed out, not sure what BW was trying to do, but I guess this was one way to shut down the healers which woulda been nice but the problem there is 95% of DPS cant DPS for **** ).

yes a good PUG CAN destroy a premade,,about 2 times out of 100

 

mostly because premades get in grinding mode

 

consider it like a heroic,,the bigger the challenge, the bigger rewards

 

so putting PUGs against premades is a no-no in PVP UNLESS they tweak gameplay or rewards

On Begeren Colony, it's Rep pre-mades that I keep running into. It's a dark day for the Empire.

 

Once I see Cupcake and Hypathia on the same team, I know we're likely boned.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Nassik

yes a good PUG CAN destroy a premade,,about 2 times out of 100

 

mostly because premades get in grinding mode

 

consider it like a heroic,,the bigger the challenge, the bigger rewards

 

so putting PUGs against premades is a no-no in PVP UNLESS they tweak gameplay or rewards

 

So satisfaction of being able to beat a premade with a pug isnt good enough?

 

Ok, so any cosmetic rewards and titles isnt bad, but anything more is overkill.

 

Not only that if its a PuG full of the same guild does that mean the same reward too? I'm not sure how this would work properly.

"loggging in rewards you" ,yes that is a games basic function,,in can do that in several ways

 

good community(), good game play, supporting different playstyles,immersion,,

 

and the ability to do PVP against players with roughly same qualities is a must

 

if they put PUGs up against premades, then premades should have their rewards drastically cut,

 

since they are basically farming easy kills,,and if the kills arent easy, then group is not good

 

I think it would be pretty hard to missunderstood what was meant by "Logging in rewards you."

 

But because I feel long winded I'll have a go any way.

 

First it's split Premade and PuG's... then when the "majority" continue to lose...

Then it's split WH from recruit... then when the majority continue to lose...

Then it's remove augments... then when the majority lose...

Nerf Operatives...

Nerf Sorcs...

Turn the weekly from wins to matches

Reduce the weekly to 3 games...

Make comm rewards the same for win or lose...

Ah hell... Just give them gear for click on the PvP daily box!

 

Do you see what I'm saying?

 

Also, for your other statement... Again, people have no control over their opponents. Nerfing Premades rewards because there wasn't another premade in the queue (matchmaking would put them up against them if it was implemented properly) is kinda like going down to a local game shop for a game day, winning, and then the gameshop decides not to give you the $20 bucks store credit that it had offered "Cause your opponents suck." It's not the premade's fault their opponents sucked.

On Begeren Colony, it's Rep pre-mades that I keep running into. It's a dark day for the Empire.

 

Once I see Cupcake and Hypathia on the same team, I know we're likely boned.

 

>.< Hey i run with Hiyapathia. I'm Mal-ori rep side and Sierrah/Alexisia imp side.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Doomsdaycomes

<.< I think you missed the point. People are calling for a seperate Queue because... because... (wait for it...) ... TEAMWORK IS HARD! If they took half the effort they put into whinning about Premades and -actually- tried to play as a team with a few friends, their world would be blown..

 

I don't think that's what the core complaint is. I think the core problem is that the best players queue together. so they stack the odds in their favor from the start - doesn't matter if they're playing pugs or premades. a solo-only queue would fix that problem. any grping would be random and, therefore, nobody could purposefully push the odds in their favor. and tbh, I don't have a problem with solo queues from that perspective.

 

in fact, I say just do it, and the issue becomes a non-issue. either reg premades become the barren wasteland that rateds are...or they don't. that's in the hands of the players. BW did a horrible job with rated, but at the end of the day, the queues are empty because ppl choose not to play. the option is there.

I don't think that's what the core complaint is. I think the core problem is that the best players queue together. so they stack the odds in their favor from the start - doesn't matter if they're playing pugs or premades. a solo-only queue would fix that problem. any grping would be random and, therefore, nobody could purposefully push the odds in their favor. and tbh, I don't have a problem with solo queues from that perspective.

 

in fact, I say just do it, and the issue becomes a non-issue. either reg premades become the barren wasteland that rateds are...or they don't. that's in the hands of the players. BW did a horrible job with rated, but at the end of the day, the queues are empty because ppl choose not to play. the option is there.

 

(While my premades are usually whomever responds in Gchat fast enough...)

 

I think that's the fundmental problem with PuG thinking... which is that the point of the game -is- to stack odds in your favor. From the moment you start your character, you should be stacking the odds in your favor.

 

1.Grab every datacron you can

2. Join that guild that's going to help you level up and gear up

3. Save your comms for 50

4. Take a crafting skill that's either going to help, or be tradeable to get you help.

5. Send gear from your alt

6. party with people instead of taking 7 other random players.

7. Learn, learn learn... read up on other classes, play them, ask friends about them

 

That is the point of a progressive PvP system/game. It's just like playing a deck building game like Magic. If everyone could just get the -point is to stack the deck in you favor.-

 

If you really, really, really want a casual pvp game... try a shooter, or GW2 (which btw... most people think failed hard on pvp.) ToR is not a -casual- game. If it was... you'd start at level 50 with a full WH toon.

I get what you are saying Doom in regards to rewards, but the suggestion you made in regards to Matchmaking could work, but there are difficulties with it:

 

- Premades skill level in the group could vary, this is an edge case I know, but if they are too disparate how does this work would it make everyone in the premade an average of those skill levels? That would be problematic if the top skilled players combined with 1 weak player who loses every month to fight average to low average players.

 

- High Skill level players fighting each other could be rare, meaning that a skilled player would be waiting for ages to get PvP going, is this HIS fault for doing so well?

 

- Matchmaking abuse: the worse part is if someone like deliberately loses a match but DPS so damn hard and kill the team farming them for ages then its going to be a problem.

 

The rewards I dont mind, so long as its not giving any advantage for PvP. But then it begs the question do people want a carrot on a stick for participating in WZ?

@Zhaker:

 

Not exactly sure what you mean, but here is what I mean.

 

16 people queue up (ignore 2 factions atm.)

 

8 of them are premade (2 groups) and 4 of them are pugs.

 

In the current system, if the 2 premades queue up just right, they will be Double premade vs. PuG = PuG's cry and die.

 

In a matchmaking system, it would take the 16 people, and make 1 team a Premade+4pugs, and the other a Premade+4pugs. You would never again seen a double premade vs. PuG's, but you'd more commonly see 2 premades against each other with 4 pugs each.

 

As for rewards and etc... Well that's a conversation for another time. I already think rewards/gear for PvP is stupid, but it's a fact of the game and a fact of how MMO's work.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Doomsdaycomes

@Zhaker:

 

Not exactly sure what you mean, but here is what I mean.

 

16 people queue up (ignore 2 factions atm.)

 

8 of them are premade (2 groups) and 4 of them are pugs.

 

In the current system, if the 2 premades queue up just right, they will be Double premade vs. PuG = PuG's cry and die.

 

In a matchmaking system, it would take the 16 people, and make 1 team a Premade+4pugs, and the other a Premade+4pugs. You would never again seen a double premade vs. PuG's, but you'd more commonly see 2 premades against each other with 4 pugs each.

 

As for rewards and etc... Well that's a conversation for another time. I already think rewards/gear for PvP is stupid, but it's a fact of the game and a fact of how MMO's work.

 

It does happen but its a roll on the die for that to occur, I don't know how often that occurs on your server but on Harbinger it doesnt ALWAYS happen in PvP. But that is just someone abusing and needs to be reported honestly, because thats an abuse of mechanics really.

(While my premades are usually whomever responds in Gchat fast enough...)

 

I think that's the fundmental problem with PuG thinking... which is that the point of the game -is- to stack odds in your favor. From the moment you start your character, you should be stacking the odds in your favor. .

 

hey, you want to rule a desert, you go on thinking that way. the majority of ppl even the pvpers (on my server) are casual. don't get me wrong. i have no prob with ppl grp queueing. it's asinine to tell them not to. but I don't know what color the sky is in the world of someone who thinks the majority of the fodder they make their bank on every night are gong to stick around up against that. iunno. w/e. i'm in a guild. I can queue with good ppl when I want. almost not my problem.

PEOPLE THAT ARE TIRED OF GETTING PUGSTOMPED PLEASE STOP SAYING SOLO Q!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What we need is a matchmaking system and mixed faction teams when necessary.

 

PREMADERS THIS WOULD NOT INCREASE Q TIMES A LOT!!!.

 

The point of a good matchmaking system is to only make a premade wait for a few mins max (assuming enough people for a wz of course lol). If you are still the only premade that q's up after a few mins then the regular system kicks in and you can go pugstomp. If not then you fight a premade. You may be with another premade or you may be with some pugs.

 

Mixed faction matching would try to keep the factions different but if say 2 imp premades q up and there are 8 mixed pugs then you get mixed up and the wz is a training scenario.

 

Zhaker...this kind of system is harder to game than the current one. I mean there are bad ways to play it but honestly there are worse and easier ones now.

 

Please people on both sides read this and respond. Puggers this will make your life much better most of the time and Premaders you will actually get some competition.

hey, you want to rule a desert, you go on thinking that way. the majority of ppl even the pvpers (on my server) are casual. don't get me wrong. i have no prob with ppl grp queueing. it's asinine to tell them not to. but I don't know what color the sky is in the world of someone who thinks the majority of the fodder they make their bank on every night are gong to stick around up against that. iunno. w/e. i'm in a guild. I can queue with good ppl when I want. almost not my problem.

 

If you have a word processor (like Microsoft Word) but the -majority- of people who buy it want a Photo Editor, do you change the Word proccessor to a Photo editor, or do you tell them they bought the wrong program?

 

First, I don't think the majority of players are casual, unless you define anyone with 2 hours or less to play a day casual. In which case <.< during the summer and holidays (and most weeks) I'm a casual. Now as I've spoke with DarthRaika about Matchmaking, I'm not opposed to the rules being amended -again.- (Bags to Comm system, Free recruit gear, Free Mk-2 recruit... cheaper offhands and gear...) I fully realize a game must evolve...

 

But switching an MMO from the traditional progression/gear base to a casual happy puffy-play-palace is like changine a Word Processor into a Photo Editor...

Just knowing how far you are going off topic, says that you can't really defend the current pvp state.

 

That being said, premades are ruining pvp. The end. There is nothing really to discuss and the other side only offers insults as a response or making sure the game dies unless they get their way.

It does happen but its a roll on the die for that to occur, I don't know how often that occurs on your server but on Harbinger it doesnt ALWAYS happen in PvP. But that is just someone abusing and needs to be reported honestly, because thats an abuse of mechanics really.

 

Queue syncing is an abuse of mechanics? News to me. Do you have a quote from BW on this?

If you really, really, really want a casual pvp game... try a shooter, or GW2 (which btw... most people think failed hard on pvp.) ToR is not a -casual- game. If it was... you'd start at level 50 with a full WH toon.

 

It's OK for you as a player to think that but it's a bankrupt stance to be adopted by the developers of an MMO. If they want to keep selling this game "to the idiot casual PuGer" (not my words but I've used it so the owner sees how wrong that sounds) they need to find ways to deliver fun & entertainment to such players. If they do nothing, they fail, if they do it by detracting from your slice of fun, they fail, if they find a way to keep you (you as in hardcore) and the casuals happy then they win.

It's not an easy thing to balance, agreed, but pitting full WH min-maxed geared toons that play in a group, against people newer to the game that play sub-par geared toons and they queue alone, it's wrong in any way, shape or form. If you can't see/understand that then never mind me or this post. I readily agree that it doesn't always happen but you can serve me cake all night long if at the end or the meal you serve me **** my dinner will be spoiled. Prolly on your shoes too .

 

Title of this thread is wrong, it should be " Premades are ruining the non-ranked warzones for me". And there are a number of players that feel that way. Showing them the door or disrespecting their opinions it's not the way to deal with it.

 

In 2 days F2P will hit the real servers and while it will take some time until the ones that opt for such a gaming style will ding 50 on their toons this problem will be pending for a resolve. Because you can be sure that the current state of the level 50 PvP will not bring any fresh subscriptions.

 

LOL game is played by millions and it has nothing on SWTOR except a well thought ranking system which ensures balanced and fun to play matches.

 

On a final note, I really think that resolving the team balancing problem will make a lot of other QQ reasons disappear (CC/resolve QQ, Class balance QQ, ability balance QQ etc). Not all of course but the majority for sure.

PEOPLE THAT ARE TIRED OF GETTING PUGSTOMPED PLEASE STOP SAYING SOLO Q!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What we need is a matchmaking system and mixed faction teams when necessary.

 

PREMADERS THIS WOULD NOT INCREASE Q TIMES A LOT!!!.

 

The point of a good matchmaking system is to only make a premade wait for a few mins max (assuming enough people for a wz of course lol). If you are still the only premade that q's up after a few mins then the regular system kicks in and you can go pugstomp. If not then you fight a premade. You may be with another premade or you may be with some pugs.

 

Mixed faction matching would try to keep the factions different but if say 2 imp premades q up and there are 8 mixed pugs then you get mixed up and the wz is a training scenario.

 

Zhaker...this kind of system is harder to game than the current one. I mean there are bad ways to play it but honestly there are worse and easier ones now.

 

Please people on both sides read this and respond. Puggers this will make your life much better most of the time and Premaders you will actually get some competition.

 

Well some premade team want to compete against strong player, however; some just want to gank PUG to help their members or enjoying easy win. Every WZ win earn you at least 100 WZ com, and each last for 15 min at least, do the math.

If you really, really, really want a casual pvp game... try a shooter, or GW2 (which btw... most people think failed hard on pvp.) ToR is not a -casual- game. If it was... you'd start at level 50 with a full WH toon.

 

Actually most FPS games have some form of progression, where you get access to more powerful guns that come with more bullets and more customization options.

 

Strangely enough, however, I always preferred the starting weapons like the M4A1, AN-94, Krilov, XM8, SCAR etc because I found them powerful and versatile (Only exception to this would be the K-Volt in Crysis 2.) and was very successful with them.

 

But more to the point. We're not asking to hand out free BiS gear to everyone. All we're asking is an option to play against similary composed teams (be that solo only or premades via match making). Personally, I don't think it would hurt to try out a solo only option only for a week or two maybe.

 

PuGs would have a much easier time getting gear and if queue times became atrociously long for premades, you could always revert to the previous state or implement match making.

 

Alternatively, Recruit-restricted bracket, where new players can acquire BM gear at least without the fear of getting annihilated by BiS WH/EWH premades.

Actually most FPS games have some form of progression, where you get access to more powerful guns that come with more bullets and more customization options.

 

Strangely enough, however, I always preferred the starting weapons like the M4A1, AN-94, Krilov, XM8, SCAR etc because I found them powerful and versatile (Only exception to this would be the K-Volt in Crysis 2.) and was very successful with them.

 

But more to the point. We're not asking to hand out free BiS gear to everyone. All we're asking is an option to play against similary composed teams (be that solo only or premades via match making). Personally, I don't think it would hurt to try out a solo only option only for a week or two maybe.

 

PuGs would have a much easier time getting gear and if queue times became atrociously long for premades, you could always revert to the previous state or implement match making.

 

Alternatively, Recruit-restricted bracket, where new players can acquire BM gear at least without the fear of getting annihilated by BiS WH/EWH premades.

simply put...

 

 

 

NO

 

 

the only fair way to have a casual bracket is to make it NOT reward valor or comms at all...

 

poeple allways want a freakin way out...srsly yoolu can farm full BM in 2/3 days...augment it and ur jsut like an WH(not augmented)..cant you grind for 2/3 days?!

The ONLY reason premades are objecting solo pvpers from getting q of thier own is that they want easy opponents to pick on.

 

If they are looking for a challange they shouldnt object getting us soloers outta the way, since they should like to fight other premades so they get thier "challange". But NO. They want us soloers to stay as cannonfodder for them.

Well some premade team want to compete against strong player, however; some just want to gank PUG to help their members or enjoying easy win. Every WZ win earn you at least 100 WZ com, and each last for 15 min at least, do the math.

Going by this thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=554133 most PvPers don't want to play against someone better than themselves.