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Jedi and Republic Kills Ambassadors now?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Jedi and Republic Kills Ambassadors now?

MikeCobalt's Avatar


MikeCobalt
12.06.2018 , 12:17 AM | #11
I'll explain again the Mandolorian death part. On Darvannis when the main target base was destroyed and took Clan Cadera with it, every Mando including Shae considered it a "Justified Act", they died so the mission could be completed, a "Glorious Death". Think the Kilingons, Predator or nearly every soldier when they first join "Go down in a hail of gunfire and all that glory" To the Mando's if the death is connected to finishing, winning, its good, celebrated even. Nobody wants to die, but if you do let it be great and winning at the same time is even better.

My 2nd time going thru Darvannis was a Jedi so I chose the "Less casualties" option and chose *Not to bombard the main base target. the instant I chose that the first words Torian spoke were "Your choice, not mine" (Sounds like he didn't want that). The main base was cleared out with no friendly causalities then speaking with Shae when she said "Clan Cadera gets to live to another day (Or something like that ) she was not in a happy, good, relieved voice (She didn't like that). In the end Torian was a good guy and Vette is a good girl, but Torians death is understandable by everybody (Celebrated by the Mando's) while Vettes death is not a happy day, to anybody in the Alliance.

Everybody should play the way they like, its their game, their story, but were all different and we all have different values, each important and equal.

Iceslasher's Avatar


Iceslasher
12.06.2018 , 09:09 AM | #12
[QUOTE=LordVitalus;9673357]
Quote: Originally Posted by Iceslasher View Post

You're missing not only the civilian/militar point, but also the fact that you're assuming that saving a Mandalorian ambassador, those who kill for sport, is better than a thief who steals to survive.
Ok , let me ask you this...you really think that a person who goes to work 9 to 5 at mcdonalds every day , and then has a night job..( yeah that was me when i was younger to support my education) should have some Thief walk in take whatever they want because oh..i can't get an honest job ( b.s they can work at a **** job if they didn't feel it was "beneath them" like vette obviously did) over an honest to god Soldier ( Which my family is ( Rcmp and military). In this case, puts their lives on the line for their family and beliefs Strength and development through combat...and they Don't hunt the weak...unlike the Republic who DID causing mass Genocide on the empire in the first sith wars AFTER they won..leaving only a handful of survivors to escape into deep space. Really and when the Mandalorian Ambassador comes to help and your toon has a chance to cause meaningful change..you throw it away on a common PIRATE and Thief....darkside choice.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
12.06.2018 , 11:05 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeCobalt View Post
A soldiers job is to Protect civilians
A soldier's job is to fight the fights his commanders tell him to fight(1), or to support his comrades who are fighting that fight, according to the situation. Sometimes, that means protecting civilians, but more often it involves:
* Attacking and (potentially) killing enemy soldiers.
* Attacking enemy installations, whether military or not, and, as a consequence, possibly killing enemy civilians.
* Holding ground (occupied solely by "friendly" soldiers) against enemy attack
* and a long, long, list of other things.

(1) Subject, perhaps, to some caveats about lawful orders.(2)

(2) The late Mrs Cynic was very clear about that. Some years before I met her, she had been in the US Air Force, and even at the time we met, she was still in the Air National Guard, and she was very clear that while orders are orders, the person receiving them is not (in US military practice) obliged to obey *illegal* orders.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

MikeCobalt's Avatar


MikeCobalt
12.06.2018 , 03:26 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
A soldier's job is to fight the fights his commanders tell him to fight(1), or to support his comrades who are fighting that fight, according to the situation. Sometimes, that means protecting civilians, but more often it involves:
* Attacking and (potentially) killing enemy soldiers.
* Attacking enemy installations, whether military or not, and, as a consequence, possibly killing enemy civilians.
* Holding ground (occupied solely by "friendly" soldiers) against enemy attack
* and a long, long, list of other things.

(1) Subject, perhaps, to some caveats about lawful orders.(2)

(2) The late Mrs Cynic was very clear about that. Some years before I met her, she had been in the US Air Force, and even at the time we met, she was still in the Air National Guard, and she was very clear that while orders are orders, the person receiving them is not (in US military practice) obliged to obey *illegal* orders.
Three tours, Infantry, and I'm still carrying some of it around with me. Me and the other Soldiers did the fighting to keep the enemy away from the citizens, stop them before they spread. This is protecting them (Citizens)(Typically helpless when facing armed soldiers). Orders *Are orders and when soldiers don't follow them other people die (Soldiers and Civilians).

Ex. If you don't move up (possibly Under fire) who will cover your cohort when he moves up ? a pause here could lose the momentum of the assault thus giving the advantage *Back to the ready defender so you accrue More casualties.
Soldiers do the fighting so the civilians don't have to face them. They understand and accept they may have to *** so that citizens don't have to; Torian knew that.

I did that scene last night, it was Torian as the choice again, He understood ("I know how this ends") He just said "Don't let me die in vain" that means Let this lead to Killing Vaylin. I did so his death (that he and everybody else accepts) lead to Defeating Vaylin and stopping/Winning the Zakuul war. That's a Glorious Death any Mandolorian would be proud of.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
12.07.2018 , 03:00 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by BlastBoomArt View Post
Oops, sorry for the misunderstanding. When I said "you missed the point a bit" I was referring to the post you were responding to, not in general. I should have elaborated.

But when it comes to Vette, yes she is a thief, there's absolutely no doubt there. But I still don't see how she can be classified as a pirate. She was a part of Nok Drayen's crew yes, but she was a child at the time (roughly 8 when she joined, according to her story). And since we know that Risha lost her dad at around the age of 11, Vette would have been no older when she left his crew. She then joined up with a bunch of teenagers to steal and reclaim Twi'lek artifacts before finally getting caught on Korriban. I'd be more likely to see Vette as a Robin Hood like figure over a pirate, taking from the rich and giving to the poor. And we already know she disapproves of hurting innocent people as anyone who's played an evil SW knows.
This. Vette grew up as a slave. She went into the profession of pirating as a child. She was trying to support herself and stay free. When she's stealing Twi'lek artifacts she's also giving them back to Ryloth to try to preserve Twi'lek heritage, and most of her companion story is about her trying to help her family. She's not malicious and as you said, in the class stories/Makeb/Ilum she greatly disapproves of hurting innocent people and needless cruelty.

Even with the money the Alliance steals from the Zakuulan treasury, Vette specifically says she's giving it to Twi'lek causes. Calling her just a thief and a pirate really doesn't explain who she really is. Considering the PC took part in grand theft of the Zakuulan treasury and there's an entire department of the Alliance that deals with the underworld. they're not exactly innocent either.

Torian on the other hand has no problem blowing up the Mandalorians in the factory out of "honor" instead of giving them a chance to leave. His entire creed is to die in the glory of battle. He's far more of a soldier than Vette, who is terrified of dying and has much less of a chance of saving herself than Torian does.

Also, from the ambassador standpoint, if you have Shae Vizla in your Alliance you've got Mandalore right there and Torian's not needed to serve that role.

MikeCobalt's Avatar


MikeCobalt
12.07.2018 , 03:08 PM | #16
What Vette was doing is the same thing(s) as Beryl Thorne from early in the Smugglers story. Stealing cultural artifacts from the corrupt to return to their rightful culture; I don't see this as Theft so much as *Recovery from the undeserving. In the smugglers story SWTOR writers saw this as shady yes but still "The Right Thing to Do". Considering Vette's happy, bubbly personality and what her friends talk about on Nar Shadda I'm sure B.W.'s intent was the same.
https://imgur.com/6YNKpq7

While Vette and Risha were together (Under Nok Drayen) I'm sure more intense things were going on (Andronikos level Piracy) but considering Both Risha and Vette both have a strong dislike for hurting the Innocent/weak I really doubt they were actively doing any of the *Hurting (I would Imagine Risha was learning about the planning and setting up new opportunities; after all she is the boss's daughter) BioWare considers this a noble cause if still illegal (More Rep corruption due to greed). Remember Vette is the S.W.'s class "Anti Hero". not "Like the rest, not dark, evil".

bluehufsa's Avatar


bluehufsa
12.08.2018 , 03:19 AM | #17
It is unfair to let Torian die because he's the last member of clan Cadera, while Vette has a sister ( no one said Tivva is dead ) that might have had children of her own.
"Rainbow Demon - pick up your heart and run

Rainbow Demon - lives for his sword and his gun"