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Guild Strongholds have serious disadvantages.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Strongholds
Guild Strongholds have serious disadvantages.

siegeshot's Avatar

08.28.2014 , 12:44 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by nerdofprey View Post
OK, some repeated testing has revealed some amazing guild stronghold facts:

You definitely can not give a key to anyone outside the guild, regardless of faction. This restriction doesn't apply to personal ones.

You can't "invite" anybody of the opposite faction.

Your guild stronghold does not show up in the opposite faction's public listings regardless of your settings. We even tried setting our republic-side guild stronghold to empire-only, and imperial players still couldn't see it.

This means the faction setting on a guild stronghold literally does nothing!

There is no game mechanic to allow the other faction to visit your guild stronghold at all. This restriction doesn't apply to personal ones.
These were the deal breakers for me. I love the guild ship because its our space stronghold! But man........ the planet strongholds... well you already listed it all out very well. Very, very, very stupid.
Guild: Cute Pink Banthas / Gravity Kills
Begeren Colony. RP-PVE.
Original beta group: Squadron 367

nerdofprey's Avatar

08.28.2014 , 01:08 AM | #12
After this latest round of discoveries my guild is officially trying to figure out how to salvage this terrible mess we're in.

What we really want is a refund of all the credits AND decorations that we sank into this useless, functionally inferior version of a stronghold. We wasted so much time and so many rare crafting materials, and we did NOT get what we paid for at all.

At this point I'm willing to conclude that guild strongholds should not even be a thing! Simply letting us give out gold keys for the personal ones would wipe out the only advantage that they have. In fact, that would make the entire game so much better that it's ridiculous.

I feel so cheated.

And it's not just that we got horribly ripped off, it's that this entire game mechanic is a horrible ripoff and we happened to notice. What do we do with that? It's a hell of a "customer complaint." I mean, this goes all the way to the top!

DataBeaver's Avatar

08.28.2014 , 04:50 AM | #13
The inability of giving guild stronghold keys to non-members is definitely a disappointment. All of my characters are in a social guild with a small group of friends, but there's this other guild I run ops with. I'd have liked a key to their stronghold as well (and they'd have liked to give me one), but in the current system it's not possible.

I thought of possible lore implications of allowing cross-faction invites to guild strongholds, but I guess they're not that much worse than for personal strongholds. The existence of the faction dropdown in the stronghold directory suggests that they intended to make public guild strongholds available to both factions, so why not allow targeted invites or even keys as well.

As for the donation issue, the situation may seem dire now that the expansion has barely been out a week. I bet in half a year everyone will be overflowing with decorations and donations are made without a second thought.

Nevertheless, I can see two possible solutions for the problem, dubious as its existence may be. Neither is entirely without problems of its own though. The first one is to simply allow the purchase of any decoration for the guild with credits. The prices would have to be high enough to keep the drops somewhat desirable as well, probably in the hundreds of thousands of credits for ops decorations. Still, people seem to be much more willing to spend generic effort to gain credits and then use those to buy what they want than to spend specific effort to get a particular item.

The second solution is to allow moving unlocked decorations between the guild and its members. The decision to move decorations away from the guild should be limited to gold key holders or possibly even the guildmaster, so it may not help if you're leaving on bad terms. This will also allow moving them between players, which may or may not be desirable. Given that most decorations are already tradeable, it probably isn't too big of an issue. If both of these solutions are applied to the same decorations, it allows creating infinite copies of them, which is definitely undesirable.

I have to wonder though... Given that this and similar issues has been brought up in several threads, how exactly do people see guilds? Are they just groups of people to chat and run ops with, to be abandoned at a whim? It's like wanting to have frequent sex, but balking at the idea of having to support a possibly resulting child. I'm extremely loyal towards my guilds, but perhaps I'm in the minority here.

nerdofprey's Avatar

08.28.2014 , 03:52 PM | #14
I love my guild. We're all very close. In theory I'm totally fine with the guild owning all the decorations and me having nothing. My personal spaces are a really low priority to me compared to the shared spaces we've been trying to set up.

Now that it turns out the guild stronghold doesn't support the features we wanted most, I look at the hundreds of decorations I earned / bought / crafted and dumped in our bank, and I'm feeling pretty regretful. The guild stronghold doesn't do the things we bought it to do, and now there's no way to get those items back.

If all decorations were set up to be used by the individual and then shared with the guild for a fee, like pets or speeders, that part wouldn't even be a problem. I might be out some money from the donations, but I could set up a personal stronghold with all the same stuff.

Edit: If anyone doubted me about Bioware telling us we could name guild strongholds, he's one example from Dulfy's livestream notes: "You cannot name your strongholds, but you can change the owner of the stronghold to one of your characters in your legacy. The exception is Guild Strongholds which you can name it as whatever you want."

Feel free to actually watch the Dromund Kaas Livestream if you don't want to take mine or Dulfy's word for it. This wasn't the only time they said it, just the first one I could turn up with a quick search.

I know their off-the-cuff Q&A sessions in the videos probably aren't legally binding or anything, but we were definitely misled.

AlCiao's Avatar

08.29.2014 , 09:22 AM | #15
Man, I'm really sorry to hear about that! Have you filed a complaint? Knowing Bioware, you probably won't get anything back, though :/

I'm loyal to my guild. I've gotten invites to a couple other guilds, but always declined. This was before I even became a guild officer lol. My guild just has our flagship, but I love it. I don't have the time, credits, or inclination to decorate my personal strongholds the way I would like, so I just use the flagship. So many guildies have donated awesome decorations that would cost me an arm and a leg to get for myself. And all our guildies use flagship over fleet now; we've got GTN, cargo hold, guild bank, legacy storage, mod station, appearance changer, mailboxes, the works.

So for me and my guild, the flagship has worked quite well.

DataBeaver's Avatar

08.29.2014 , 10:56 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by nerdofprey View Post
Now that it turns out the guild stronghold doesn't support the features we wanted most, I look at the hundreds of decorations I earned / bought / crafted and dumped in our bank, and I'm feeling pretty regretful. The guild stronghold doesn't do the things we bought it to do, and now there's no way to get those items back.
This early into the expansion's lifecycle I'd still be hopeful that the missing features can be added. Perhaps Bioware just didn't anticipate their importance.

Caralysse's Avatar

08.31.2014 , 12:04 PM | #17
Another point (and I apologize if this was already said and I missed it)

If your small guild manages to get all 35,000 Conquest points, you ONLY get the reward if you place in the top 10 on the leaderboard. (just confirmed by experience)

I'm sorry, but there is no feasible competition whatsoever if #10 has over 2 million points this week so far! A guild putting in that many points is not doing it for the piddly (to them) rewards --- whereas to a smaller guild, those rewards are not so trifling.

It would be nice if a guild received the reward, period, if they managed the task.

nerdofprey's Avatar

08.31.2014 , 04:08 PM | #18
Damn, that is a good thing to know since my guild has 5 people in it!

Caladorean's Avatar

09.02.2014 , 05:45 AM | #19
After reading several of your posts / replies, I am surprised you feel " taken " by Bioware. It seems your Guild and yourself put a lot of emphasis on the Guild Stronghold, ie; reading upcoming notes, PR releases, grinding materials for future crafting, farming credits for the cost of the stronghold, etc.

Did you not learn about what you can and can not do on the PTR ?

Or was the one thing you did not do?
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam

ZorakMalor's Avatar

09.02.2014 , 09:48 AM | #20
They also said repeatedly during these streams that they were "actively working on this as we speak" and that things were not all set in stone.

You have to judge a finished product on a finished product. Not on what it was going to be in development.

Also, yes.. you folks should have poked into PTS and tested out what was going to be the final product. We had at least 2 weeks to tool around with that stuff. Plenty of time to copy rich characters over, form a guild, buy a SH and see what you could and could not do.

Plenty of products in the past have been touted to have "such and such" a feature, only to have it not be there at launch for whatever reasons.