My god, it's ridiculous. All of the threads I'm reading on this forum about how bad snipers are, how weak we are compared to other DPS classes, how a AC with only DPS trees doesn't top the damage in warzones, how bad MM is in warzones.

 

There's your problem!

 

MM is NOT a PVP spec. PvP is all about mobility, not sitting in one place and trying to burst people down. That's something you would do in PvE, yet people still play MM in PvP which I just don't understand. You complain about cover, you complain about getting ***** when someone decides to attack you, yet you're still using the same spec.

 

Go Lethality. It has just as much burst as MM if you want to get someone down 1v1, Corrosive Grenade, Dart, Weakening Blast, Cull.

 

Simple. Lethality is by far the best spec if you want to PvP as a Sniper. Stop playing MM and sitting in cover, having no mobility, and complaining about getting killed fast or your damage sucking.

 

I have never, ever, been outdamaged in a Huttball or Voidstar since I was Lethality, and I will only get outdamaged in Alderaan if I'm playing defense the whole game.

 

http://s1146.photobucket.com/albums/o530/l3ulls3y3/

 

Some screenshots, includes a 655k game in Voidstar, 500's in Huttball.

 

I average, easily, 400-450k + in Huttball if the game lasts the whole duration.

 

Go Lethality. You guys are all having problems because you are playing the worst spec for a sniper. You guys play a spec that forces you to stand in one place, and don't understand why you get killed fast. Lethality allows you to run and kite warriors or other melee who are chasing you while still being able to do all of your damage while on the run.

 

One of the problems as MM is you guys get LOS'd and your damage is 0, as Lethality, you can dot people, and use LOS for your own advantage. It is LEAGUES better than Marks, especially in games like Voidstar and Alderaan where dots actually stop people from planting bombs or capping turrets, so you can single handedly win games on those two maps.

Purge

 

I just made you useless.

I can post random screenshots too! Here's one game I entered as marksman with like 5-6 minutes left on the clock:

 

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1867/screenshot2012020422093.jpg

 

So, with 1/3 of your damage, I was able to:

 

• Get the same amount of kills
  
• Earn more medals
  
• Earn double your objective points
  
• Earn my team a flawless victory
  
• Get more MVP votes even though I'm not topping damage/kills because my teammates realized that I controlled the game
  

 

But I will also say it means nothing. Anyone can post screenshots and brag, but nobody actually knows what happened in the game, who you were fighting, or who you were fighting with. Videos or stop bragging about your epic play to prove how awesome your spec is.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Mirela

So, with 1/3 of your damage, I was able to:

 

Get the same amount of kills

Earn more medals

Earn double your objective points

Earn my team a flawless victory

Get more MVP votes even though I'm not topping damage/kills because my teammates realized that I controlled the game

 

Destroyed.

A flawless victory! Wow! You sure earned it for your team!

 

Good job! You got more medals than me when using your biochem medpac gave you medals!

 

Fact of the matter is, I showed more than one screenshot and doing anything less than 400k damage in a Huttball is unordinary and doesn't happen for me anymore.

 

Your 180k damage didn't influence the game as much as me doing 500K + does, but nice try. Keep playing your useless MM spec and sitting in cover all game because you do absolutely nothing. Your 180k damage is **** and I do that in 5 mins

 

Earning objective points in a game that is bugged and broken in the way it keeps track of it

Edited February 5, 2012 by BuIIseye

I can post random screenshots too! Here's one game I entered as marksman with like 5-6 minutes left on the clock:

 

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1867/screenshot2012020422093.jpg

 

So, with 1/3 of your damage, I was able to:

 

• Get the same amount of kills
  
• Earn more medals
  
• Earn double your objective points
  
• Earn my team a flawless victory
  
• Get more MVP votes even though I'm not topping damage/kills because my teammates realized that I controlled the game
  

 

But I will also say it means nothing. Anyone can post screenshots and brag, but nobody actually knows what happened in the game, who you were fighting, or who you were fighting with. Videos or stop bragging about your epic play to prove how awesome your spec is.

 

This is win right here

Yes, let's take the suggestion from someone that thinks the amount of damage done at the end of the game is the measure of how effective a dps spec is.

Yes, let's take the suggestion from someone that thinks the amount of damage done at the end of the game is the measure of how effective a dps spec is.

 

Coming from someone who's played both specs?

 

When the biggest argument for MM is the fact that it is the best burst and Lethality burst is just as good single target?

 

When every person is complaining about how bad snipers are and how bad cover is yet they continue to play that same spec?

 

When I **** on kids all day as Lethality and have absolutely 0 problems killing any AC whether it's a Sorcerer or Mercenary?

 

Keep it up guys. Snipers are fine and you all really need to L2P.

I like beef, and everyone who likes chicken is WRONG AND STUPID!

 

Both are good builds with unique advantages and disadvantages. Marksmanship's failings have been well-documented, but Lethality has failings as well--Purge, for one, enormous energy consumption, etc.

 

If you like one, great. If you don't like the other, then double-great. But liking one thing doesn't mean the other is worthless.

Purge

 

I just made you useless.

 

Purge? Yeah, sure, of course.

 

Do people purge in warzones? Rarely.

 

Are rated warzones out yet? Nope

What's the point of going Sniper and Lethality? It seems only 5x more suited to Operative. Anyone?

I like beef, and everyone who likes chicken is WRONG AND STUPID!

 

Both are good builds with unique advantages and disadvantages. Marksmanship's failings have been well-documented, but Lethality has failings as well--Purge, for one, enormous energy consumption, etc.

 

If you like one, great. If you don't like the other, then double-great. But liking one thing doesn't mean the other is worthless.

 

Energy consumption is actually fine if you know how to use the spec. Lethal purposes gives you back energy when your DOTS crit. You spread dots around and hit as many people as you can and you do not go oom. You only go oom if you're spamming Cull on every target you see.

 

Purge, yeah of course, but for one most people rarely Purge because most people rarely run into Lethality Snipers. If you do get the person who is spam Purging his whole group then you're doing your job right. If you can get a healer worrying more about Purging your dots than healing his raid than you're fine. When one tick of a dot can stop a person from capping a door or turret, you're doing it right.

wish i had a screen shot handy, but ive delt 500k in a WZ with MM spec. best part is the 5.5k ambushs and 8.8kish total damage from SoS.

 

i have tried all 3 specs, i personally love cover, so MM all the way. i find the other 2 specs don't really complement the snipers normals skills very well, just throw new ones in.

Lethality is great when you're soloqueueing against scrubs.

 

When you run into a premade that has a healer with a pulse who understands where his "purge" button is...

 

enjoy that.

 

Great thing is, even Merc/Commando and Operative/Smug DPS toons can neuter you when you face them by including their purge into their rotation on cooldown!

 

Good times!

 

Im not saying its a terrible spec, merely that it is no b etter than MM in the end, because while Marskman may have a much higher percentage of its damgae neutered by armor and defenses (which Lethality avoids) at least the damage is consistent against each type of target and not completely neuterable with a low cooldown purge skill.

Lethality is great when you're soloqueueing against scrubs.

 

When you run into a premade that has a healer with a pulse who understands where his "purge" button is...

 

enjoy that.

 

Great thing is, even Merc/Commando and Operative/Smug DPS toons can neuter you when you face them by including their purge into their rotation on cooldown!

 

Good times!

 

Im not saying its a terrible spec, merely that it is no b etter than MM in the end, because while Marskman may have a much higher percentage of its damgae neutered by armor and defenses (which Lethality avoids) at least the damage is consistent against each type of target and not completely neuterable with a low cooldown purge skill.

 

See and thats the problem.

 

Why are you so worried about the 1v1 encounter with you and a Merc or Operative who can Purge your dots?

 

That's not how you play Lethality. You are spreading dots all around and not focusing on single target DPS. You are trying to AVOID 1v1's, but you are able to win them despite the fact a class can purge.

 

You can flash bang, and then put out your dots, followed by a stun and you can get a good Cull off.

 

Lethality is much more effective especially on Voidstar and Alderaan, without a doubt. Dot ticks keep people off doors and turrets, and its a lot easier for you to replenish dots than it is for a healer to purge off 4+ players while worrying about healing as well.

I dont seem to have any problem with the cover system. Theres a time and a place for it. Mostly when your at a vantage point where you can sick back an pick off people. When someone decides to attack its an escaping game for me if I can. The only warzone I have trouble with is Voidstar because there arent many places to run to and los someone trying to chase you down. But any other and its a ball. And I have no problem topping the dmg charts in most matches.

I'm level 50, currently at 55 valor. I play 23 16 2 in PvP.

 

I tried all the other builds, in PvE and PvP, and since deciding to concentrate on PvP spend more than enough time as Lethality. Still, I absolutely prefer Marksman. And no, I don't do ridiculous numbers of complete damage, I normally end warzones between 250 and 350k damage.

 

I complain about the sniper, but more about mechanics than the build, especially that other classes have to do less to be as effective.

I have no clue how all the people championing Lethality do it, but for me, there just isn't enough burst. Since the build isn't really complicated to play concerning it's rotation, I'll just assume it has nothing to do with my skill level.

But I repeatedly found myself in situations where I just NEEDED something to die ( healers and tanks both ), and I just couldn't do it. I spat out everything I had, even going into cover and using my Explosive Probe, but the target just wouldn't die. Of course there was heal involved, but no dispelling.

Btw, I'm wearing full Champion's PvP gear, so either people on my server are better geared, or just heal a lot more than the people other Lethality snipers encounter.

Since I usually play with a fixed team, those situations pissed me off so much, that I just stopped using Lethality.

I'm absolutely satisfied with my current build, Explosive Probe damage gives me a way to get around those pesky mitigation problems, and the burst I spit out with Laze Target - Explosive Probe - Instant Snipe - 1.5s Ambush is enough to destroy the majority of healers I target, this being my main objective in warzones.

Apart from melting healers, I just cc everything I can, slowing and blinding everything I can reach, and generally pissing people off so they focus me instead of their objectives.

 

So no, I don't consider Lethality THE PvP build. I seriously don't understand how anybody playing it can function inside a dedicated PvP group.

In my opinion, Lethality is for solo queue PvP, and to farm medals, and for this, it does an excellent job, and is indeed better than MM or Engineering. For everything else..? Not so much.

I'm level 50, currently at 55 valor. I play 23 16 2 in PvP.

 

I tried all the other builds, in PvE and PvP, and since deciding to concentrate on PvP spend more than enough time as Lethality. Still, I absolutely prefer Marksman. And no, I don't do ridiculous numbers of complete damage, I normally end warzones between 250 and 350k damage.

 

I complain about the sniper, but more about mechanics than the build, especially that other classes have to do less to be as effective.

I have no clue how all the people championing Lethality do it, but for me, there just isn't enough burst. Since the build isn't really complicated to play concerning it's rotation, I'll just assume it has nothing to do with my skill level.

But I repeatedly found myself in situations where I just NEEDED something to die ( healers and tanks both ), and I just couldn't do it. I spat out everything I had, even going into cover and using my Explosive Probe, but the target just wouldn't die. Of course there was heal involved, but no dispelling.

Btw, I'm wearing full Champion's PvP gear, so either people on my server are better geared, or just heal a lot more than the people other Lethality snipers encounter.

Since I usually play with a fixed team, those situations pissed me off so much, that I just stopped using Lethality.

I'm absolutely satisfied with my current build, Explosive Probe damage gives me a way to get around those pesky mitigation problems, and the burst I spit out with Laze Target - Explosive Probe - Instant Snipe - 1.5s Ambush is enough to destroy the majority of healers I target, this being my main objective in warzones.

Apart from melting healers, I just cc everything I can, slowing and blinding everything I can reach, and generally pissing people off so they focus me instead of their objectives.

 

So no, I don't consider Lethality THE PvP build. I seriously don't understand how anybody playing it can function inside a dedicated PvP group.

In my opinion, Lethality is for solo queue PvP, and to farm medals, and for this, it does an excellent job, and is indeed better than MM or Engineering. For everything else..? Not so much.

 

I don't see how you can have the burst as Marks to kill someone but not Lethality?

 

Marks damage is affected by armor, so when you're going up against warriors, tanks, merc/powertech and such, you do nothing.

 

Lethality dots ignore armor therefore you should have a pretty easy damn time being able to burst people down. Again, I've tried all specs except Engineering and it's pretty damn good burst. You can even spec Leth/ Engineering for a THIRD DOT and the burst is even better as Lethality.

As I said, I play in a dedicated PvP group. Why the hell would I target high armor enemies? I take out their healers, CC the tank, and let the random zerg finish him off.

I'm level 50, currently at 55 valor. I play 23 16 2 in PvP.

 

I tried all the other builds, in PvE and PvP, and since deciding to concentrate on PvP spend more than enough time as Lethality. Still, I absolutely prefer Marksman. And no, I don't do ridiculous numbers of complete damage, I normally end warzones between 250 and 350k damage.

 

I complain about the sniper, but more about mechanics than the build, especially that other classes have to do less to be as effective.

I have no clue how all the people championing Lethality do it, but for me, there just isn't enough burst. Since the build isn't really complicated to play concerning it's rotation, I'll just assume it has nothing to do with my skill level.

But I repeatedly found myself in situations where I just NEEDED something to die ( healers and tanks both ), and I just couldn't do it. I spat out everything I had, even going into cover and using my Explosive Probe, but the target just wouldn't die. Of course there was heal involved, but no dispelling.

Btw, I'm wearing full Champion's PvP gear, so either people on my server are better geared, or just heal a lot more than the people other Lethality snipers encounter.

Since I usually play with a fixed team, those situations pissed me off so much, that I just stopped using Lethality.

I'm absolutely satisfied with my current build, Explosive Probe damage gives me a way to get around those pesky mitigation problems, and the burst I spit out with Laze Target - Explosive Probe - Instant Snipe - 1.5s Ambush is enough to destroy the majority of healers I target, this being my main objective in warzones.

Apart from melting healers, I just cc everything I can, slowing and blinding everything I can reach, and generally pissing people off so they focus me instead of their objectives.

 

So no, I don't consider Lethality THE PvP build. I seriously don't understand how anybody playing it can function inside a dedicated PvP group.

In my opinion, Lethality is for solo queue PvP, and to farm medals, and for this, it does an excellent job, and is indeed better than MM or Engineering. For everything else..? Not so much.

 

You hit the nail on the head in more ways than one. I am still marksman primarily because I should be killing eveyrthing BUT the tanks.. especially healers. I can't really do that with lethality. You also said what I came to the conclusion of as well... Lethality is perfect for farming medals and playing in PUGS, but against competent people.. their just annoying.. thats it.

See and thats the problem.

 

Why are you so worried about the 1v1 encounter with you and a Merc or Operative who can Purge your dots?

 

That's not how you play Lethality. You are spreading dots all around and not focusing on single target DPS. You are trying to AVOID 1v1's, but you are able to win them despite the fact a class can purge.

 

You can flash bang, and then put out your dots, followed by a stun and you can get a good Cull off.

 

Lethality is much more effective especially on Voidstar and Alderaan, without a doubt. Dot ticks keep people off doors and turrets, and its a lot easier for you to replenish dots than it is for a healer to purge off 4+ players while worrying about healing as well.

 

Way to quote out of context and not read!

 

A single healer doesn't need to purge off of four people (not that you can get all your dots on 4 people anyway) - he only needs to purge off of your Cull target. The other DPS can and will purge from themselves. Any Merc or COmmand or Operative or SMuggler doesn't need the healer to cleanse them - theyll do it themselves.

 

ITT:

 

Lethality is great against scrubs.

 

Against organized teams its awful.

 

Follow along if you can.

Just going to chime in here as a healer(play all 3 of them).

 

Lethality snipers are a joke, I don't really even need to purge, they lack serious single target burst to break healing and my AoE heals will take care of any DoT's that were spread around. MM snipers are damn scary, if they have clear LoS on a target I pretty much have to dump everything I have into healing them or they're dead. If someone is attacking me or interrupting me either me or the person I'm healing is dead, guaranteed. Not to mention an entrenched sniper is great at denying portions of the map. NOBODY wants to be in LoS of a MM sniper.

Way to quote out of context and not read!

 

A single healer doesn't need to purge off of four people (not that you can get all your dots on 4 people anyway) - he only needs to purge off of your Cull target. The other DPS can and will purge from themselves. Any Merc or COmmand or Operative or SMuggler doesn't need the healer to cleanse them - theyll do it themselves.

 

ITT:

 

Lethality is great against scrubs.

 

Against organized teams its awful.

 

Follow along if you can.

 

I agree with this except for the part where you said scrub because i am pretty sure you are a dood.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QIY_i4ALa0

 

To your point yes against intelligent players lethality is awful. You will lose against any cleanse user unless they are severely undergeared or braindead. The high energy costs will leave you stuck in combat and out of energy.

 

Try stopping a gank against an assassin or an operative when the op can cleanse and the assassin can do that cloak of shadows like move and restealth and reopen on you with another near auto-crit talented double shock proc for 5k.

 

I still enjoy lethality way more than marksman and hope that one day they fix our energy costs and the cooldowns on corrosive grenade, weakening blast and cull. I mean lethality trades all forms of defense for pure offense but that does not matter if you are out of energy two enemies in.

I used to run Lethality quite a bit, but I am now dead set on MM (Battlemaster).

 

 

Lethality is kinda OKish, but it has several major issues:

 

• Energy consumption - self explanatory and by far the biggest issue of Lethality builds.
   
   
  
• Target switching - really bad there, if Corrosive Grenade is on CD, you won't be doing any sort of good damage on a new target for quite a long time, not to mention that you need to dump 40 energy to prepare your pewpew to begin with and often it leaves you with no energy to actually do something.
   
   
  
• DoTs interfere with CC - DoTted target is effectively immune to Mez and resistant to Roots, what's worse is that you pretty much spread this pseudo-immunity with Corrosive Grenade.
   
   
  
• Cull - the whole spec relies on one attack to do real damage, if it fails due to some sort of interrupt, you are neutralized as an effective threat for until it comes off CD.
   
   
  
• Burst - I won't say it can't burst, but it is just not on the level of what MM can do. Another issue here is that you need at least 70 energy to initiate that burst, while MM can pretty much do more burst damage with almost half that energy amount. Heck, Cull alone costs almost as much as Ambush>Snipe>FT together and pretty much does less damage, unless target is some sort of tank. Basically with MM I have no issue keeping the pressure up afterwards, with Lethality - if the target is nowhere near dead after Cull, you can't do much. Another difference is that MM opener can't be healed that easy on a fresh target, since your heals will only be effective after the opener hits, while one can merrily heal mid-cull diminishing it's effective burst even further.
   
   
  
• Survivability - With extra knockback, Ballistic Dampers, Diversion and reliable Flashbang - MM is quite a bit sturdier than Lethality.
  

 

Contrary to the popular belief, however, Purge is not a real counter to Lethality for a simple reason - there are plenty of other trash debuffs that may sit on a target at any given time and as long as Corrosive Grenade is not purged, it will hardly do anything to really mess with you.

 

 

Now, I am not saying Lethality is BAD, but it is hardly THE PVP spec. I think overall MM, once you are well geared, is simply better by the grace of a fact that you can burst much higher, more consistently and can keep up the pressure for a longer period of time, while being sturdier at the same time.

 

Now I am not negating Lethality benefits of armor melting damage or the absolutely insane, Orbital Strikes of a 2/18/21 spec (I had near 5k damage crits in PvP), but I feel it is more situational compared the near constant necessity to smash healer faces with a good burst.

 

Basically from my experience, if I do 500k damage with Lethality, it does not really mean THAT much... If I do 500k damage with MM, it means that I basically slaughtered the enemy team.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Gaidax

Basically from my experience, if I do 500k damage with Lethality, it does not really mean THAT much... If I do 500k damage with MM, it means that I basically slaughtered the enemy team.

 

/thread, pretty much