I think it's more of the context at which they do the action.

 

Like they probably laugh and say crap like "Wish I could do that in real life LOLZ" or something stupid like that.

 

I've seen it happen so many times.

 

It might be a bit double standardish, but it's extremely annoying to see it. Usually when I see it happen, my troll mode activates, and it all goes downhill from there.

Yes, but what does BW has to do with it ? Should they remove all parts of the game where a woman gets hurt ? Remove all NPC that are female ? Just because some idiots decided to be offensive ?

I have to say, I really wish the final boarding party convo didn't have the "someone shut this woman up" option. Every freaking time (okay, 95% of the time) when I do that flashpoint and don't win the roll, I have to hear that stupid line and watch the guys in my group LOL about woman-beating. Okay, I get it, it's a game. They're playing evil characters. They do a lot of killing and whatnot, so simply getting hit shouldn't matter. But there's a difference, and the fact that so many guys get such a kick out of watching a woman get pistol-whipped really makes me kind of sick and despair of humanity. Because here's the thing, guys: it's not funny. No, really, it's not.

For every instance of a woman being pistol-whipped in a cutscene in ToR, there are at least 10 scenes in which men get: pistol-whipped, rifle stock to the face, take brutal barehanded beatings (not just fist to the face/gut. Brutal, continuous beatings, like in the Imperial Agent storyline episode where (s)he's given the option to execute an enemy. Just pure sadism).

Double standard much? Men have always been the expendable gender throughout both, history and popular culture. You don't hear men moaning about that.

As far as kids giggling about woman-beating - who cares? They're just dumb teens/manchildren. Woman-beating is a taboo-subject in modern culture, and it's natural for immature people to challenge taboos, to approve or encourage challenging taboos. Their opinions are, in the long run, inconsequential.

Yes, but what does BW has to do with it ? Should they remove all parts of the game where a woman gets hurt ? Remove all NPC that are female ? Just because some idiots decided to be offensive ?

ummm, no. I never said that. I just pointed out that the context at which they say it is extremely annoying.

 

Double standard much? Men have always been the expendable gender throughout both, history and popular culture. You don't hear men moaning about that.

 

.

I have to disagree with this EXTREMELY heavily, because it is very, very, very, wrong.

I have to disagree with this EXTREMELY heavily, because it is very, very, very, wrong.

Wrong how? There aren't any "official" statistics, but in popular culture (namely, movies, action flicks, in particular), for every female character death there's about hundred male character deaths. Usually a lot more brutal, too.

As far as history goes, wars. This vid does a good job explaining how the "

ummm, no. I never said that. I just pointed out that the context at which they say it is extremely annoying.

I know you didn't say that, but you are not getting my point. OP said this :

Is Bioware trying to make this game as unfriendly an environment for women as possible? Because nothing about that is cool.

Let me give you another example, if the very same NPC had a very dark skin. Would say BW is fostering a hostile environment for dark skinned people ?

Another example, if the very same NPC was a male and light skinned. Would say BW is fostering a hostile environment for white males ? What if the NPC was Asian looking ? what if the NPC had a middle eastern features ?

Violence in this game is indiscriminate, so I repeat my question what does BW have to do with this ?

Wrong how? There aren't any "official" statistics, but in popular culture (namely, movies, action flicks, in particular), for every female character death there's about hundred male character deaths. Usually a lot more brutal, too.

 

As far as history goes, wars. This vid does a good job explaining how the "

" works.

I was mostly referring to the females in history.

Even in modern times really. Females are seen as the weaker beings, and are therefore seen as easier targets for murders and rape.

But especially in history. Males may not have had it smooth back then, but women back then were in a way deeper boat.

I studied, and actually major in history, and I can safely assure you that I know what I am talking about.

As for your wars comment. What do you think happened when a country lost a war and got invaded by the enemy? The enemy just lay their weapons down and said "Ok guys, good job, let's go on home now."

Nope, I can assure you that the women and children in the occupied country were treated far worse than the men in the actual war. Sex slaves, ect.

Just an example, look up the information on the Nanking massacre. Keep in mind that this was a dark time in history anyhow (WW2) but it's still la valid point imo.

There are countless other accounts that I could list, but I don't think I can stomach talking about them.

I was mostly referring to the females in history.

 

Even in modern times really. Females are seen as the weaker beings, and are therefore seen as easier targets for murders and rape.

 

But especially in history. Males may not have had it smooth back then, but women back then were in a way deeper boat. <..........>

There are countless other accounts that I could list, but I don't think I can stomach talking about them.

Bottomline. Men are disposable in the eyes of society for pretty much the entire human history. Men are expected to die first. Men are expected to be stoic. Men are expected to put the basic needs of women first. To quote Karen, "Seats in a lifeboat".

Not even mentioning popular culture. The death of a male character is seen as something mundane, insignificant, inconsequential. The death of a female character is often a lot more meaningful.

And you know what? I'm fine with that. I'm secure with my role in the human race. What I'm not fine with is when some white knight tries to claim a narrow-minded moral high ground.

I know you didn't say that, but you are not getting my point. OP said this :

 

 

Let me give you another example, if the very same NPC had a very dark skin. Would say BW is fostering a hostile environment for dark skinned people ?

Another example, if the very same NPC was a male and light skinned. Would say BW is fostering a hostile environment for white males ? What if the NPC was Asian looking ? what if the NPC had a middle eastern features ?

Violence in this game is indiscriminate, so I repeat my question what does BW have to do with this ?

I agree with you on that actually, Bioware doesn't have anything to do with it.

It's just a group of terribly bad players that are to blame.

As I posted earlier, it's the context that makes people mad, not Bioware.

I was mostly referring to the females in history.

 

Even in modern times really. Females are seen as the weaker beings, and are therefore seen as easier targets for murders and rape.

 

But especially in history. Males may not have had it smooth back then, but women back then were in a way deeper boat.

 

I studied, and actually major in history, and I can safely assure you that I know what I am talking about.

 

As for your wars comment. What do you think happened when a country lost a war and got invaded by the enemy? The enemy just lay their weapons down and said "Ok guys, good job, let's go on home now."

 

Nope, I can assure you that the women and children in the occupied country were treated far worse than the men in the actual war. Sex slaves, ect.

 

Just an example, look up the information on the Nanking massacre. Keep in mind that this was a dark time in history anyhow (WW2) but it's still la valid point imo.

 

There are countless other accounts that I could list, but I don't think I can stomach talking about them.

Congratulation, you are sexist!

Congratulation, you are sexist!

lol I love how you lost the argument then call me sexist. That's priceless.

I bet the first time your boss fired you, you were like "No, you're fired!"

Then got escorted out by security while the boss laughed the whole time.

If you do not understand that metaphor, I am the boss, and you are the employee whom I just fired.

Tulak Hord was never sexist. He beat the **** out of everybody equally.

Thank you for that, Khem..... so much.

Statement: I agree, Master. We should liquidate the meatbags equally.

*Facepalm*

Enthusiastic Inquiry: Did a meatbag say fire? I like fire!

lol I love how you lost the argument then call me sexist. That's priceless.

 

I bet the first time your boss fired you, you were like "No, you're fired!"

 

Then got escorted out by security while the boss laughed the whole time.

 

If you do not understand that metaphor, I am the boss, and you are the employee whom I just fired.

You are advocating soft handling women because some parts of society think they are weak.

Ring a bell ? (Sexism is a two way street )

Honestly, I've heard something horrible said about an NPC in every 50 HM FP. Yes, even Directive 7 -- the cyborg guy you run into was referred to as, well, a deluxe model toy. Now, Bioware had absolutely nothing even pointing in that direction, but suddenly the entire FP had a side-story about how Mentor is just angry that his cyborg "specialty interests business" never took off.

Ashara in Esseles has had more than her fair share of rude comments. Heck, so have the engineers, and even the dead captain at the very beginning of it. And anyone, in any flashpoint, who has ever been stabbed or shot. Revan and Satele are the "hot ones" and I honestly wish I could forget some of the things people have said about them. And every FP has at least one NPC where someone has said they either enjoy killing the guy or wish they could kill the guy. ("Guy" being a neutral term here, of course.) Or maim, or torture, or bend over a barrel, or whatever other horrible thing.

It's the players.

Now, in OP's exact situation, I agree that her teammates went too far. Re-starting the convo and then kicking her out is, in my opinion, worthy of writing out a report for player misconduct. But that is a problem with the players themselves, not the game being played. Most people, in my experience, will stop making comments if/when they are asked to stop. Most people are pretty decent people trying to relieve some boredom and would never really do even a fraction of the awful things they say -- heck, I'd be willing to bet the thought often wouldn't even occur when facing a real, live, breathing human instead of pixels on the screen. Yes, we get to hit the NPC at the end of that flashpoint. But we never get to lay a finger on Ashara and I guarantee some of the things that have been said about her were just as bad, if not worse. People are going to think and say bad things even if the entire game turns into fluffy bunnies. If we don't like it, we can use the ignore feature; if we feel the other players have gone too far or abused the system, we can report them. The only thing BW needs to do is decide whether or not they agree that the jerks who mistreated another player for their own enjoyment deserve to be punished.

All I can say is this: you guys have run in some weird-*** groups. I've yet to have to deal with craziness to that extent in FP runs. Gen chat is another story entirely =p

Ha! Can't argue with that.

A while back, I had a lot of free time but little to do with it, so I ran a LOT of 50 HM FPs through GF. I would say that probably 5%, if that, involved bizarre/cruel/rude comments... and most of those were from people who were bored out of their skull from having done the runs so many times. And probably not even 1% of those people were intolerable. Most of the time, my GF runs are pretty quiet. I've ignored waaaaay more people over not playing their queued role or being a jerk over a mistake than I have ignored people making strange comments about NPCs.

I have to say, I really wish the final boarding party convo didn't have the "someone shut this woman up" option. Every freaking time (okay, 95% of the time) when I do that flashpoint and don't win the roll, I have to hear that stupid line and watch the guys in my group LOL about woman-beating. Okay, I get it, it's a game. They're playing evil characters. They do a lot of killing and whatnot, so simply getting hit shouldn't matter. But there's a difference, and the fact that so many guys get such a kick out of watching a woman get pistol-whipped really makes me kind of sick and despair of humanity. Because here's the thing, guys: it's not funny. No, really, it's not.

 

I just did a HM of this for my daily. Everything was going along fine, and when one of the guys in the group responded to the first convo with the Jedi lady, where she threatens us, with "Let's gang rape her", I let it go and didn't say anything. When we got to the final convo, one of the guys said, "best part", and I knew he was talking about that line, because so many people just think it's so dang funny to watch a woman get smacked in the face. So I choose one of the other options and win the roll. So does he just let it go and move on with the convo so we can finish the dang flashpoint? No. He freaking stops the convo, says "whoa" like I just did something really disgusting, and restarts it. I point out that not everyone's misogynistic. He and his friend kick me. Kick me right out of the group for not going along with the woman-beating hilarity.

 

It's not enough that I have to constantly listen to and see this scene? Now I get kicked from a FP at the very end of it for not going along with it? Is Bioware trying to make this game as unfriendly an environment for women as possible? Because nothing about that is cool.

someone shut th....

Sorry, couldnt resist

i know i have bad sense of humor

id laugh if it was a guy too; its about the pistol whipping, not the gender

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFZG8KQJni8

If I could +1 this a millions times, I would.

Also, is OP playing the same SWTOR that I am? Because I don't see any He-Man Women Hater's Clubs around here.

All joking aside, to be fair to OP, I can understand how the actions of some anonymous dirtbags in a random FP would upset you. That being said, The Internet Is Not A Nice Place. I think that bears repeating, The Internet Is Not A Nice Place. If I got upset over every time I heard a joke about mental illness, for example, I'd be too upset and offended to get anything done. It sucks that you had to put up with it, but it's sort of an expectation in what is basically the virtual Wild West. If you need to protect yourself from all injury and stay in "safe spaces", there are plenty of them online available for you, and there are probably guilds that cater to it as well. Random FPs aren't all rainbows and sunshine, and I get way more terrible ones than good ones. Consider running with a "safe space" guild if you random at all

I think your comments about sexism or misogyny within the game itself (the cutscene in particular) are way off base, though. Like others have said, I find the violence in this game to be pretty non-discriminatory. You're not beating the captain up because she's a woman, you're beating her up because she just tried to blow up her ship in an attempt to stop your takeover. You're punishing an enemy officer for their defiance, not because of their gender. Let's remember that this also occurs in a scene where the dark side option is to execute everyone on the bridge via firing squad. How is smacking a captain around more heinous and upsetting than gunning down multiple people? I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm actually curious as to why you find pistol-whipping someone more offensive than taking the lives of multiple persons.

If you have to type that much analysis about a couple of morons and try to assign blame to the nondiscriminatory violence in a video game cutscene, you need better things to do with your time.

 

Yes they are. If the captain were a man we'd hear complaints that not enough women are represented in positions of authority or presented as capable.

 

There's literally no way to win with social justice warriors.

HOLY HELL FRIDGE. FANCY SEEING YOU IN THIS THREAD.

8D

True.... I kill or knock out everybody who does that. I'm wondering now: How in the **** am I still Light 4

For me, it's diplomacy 8D

My sniper might be a ruthless killer, but LOLIGHT5 THE PURE

Immersion is for babies.