Hate DKY? Run MMFPs.... seriously I think I've seen it pop up twice in the last 3mos of MMFP's

That's because KDY isn't on the MMFP list.

 

That being said, IMO KDY sucks. Some random parts take twice as long as others, and a lot of the bosses are just plain annoying. I don't blame the people queuing for it. The issue is more on Bioware and their inability to balance things either from a difficulty and / or time perspective.

 

KDY takes a lot longer than a lot of the other FPs on the Vet list. And you only get one boss' worth of loot. That is on Bioware for not balancing it compared to the other FPs. On the other hand, you could also say Bioware should nerf the rewards from HS and RR.

 

If things take longer and / or are harder, then the rewards should be greater and vice versa. Yet, after 8 years or so Bioware still doesn't seem to fully comprehend that.

What's truly advisable is that people start deselecting the FPs they don't want and/or only select the ones they do want and/or only do FPs with guild groups.

The rest of us don't want to listen to these people who have no regard for others, whining because they are too cheap to give up the relatively unimportant GF bonus.

The GF bonus is not unimportant. It has a loot crate which is essentially an extra boss loot, 15k credits and more than 10% of a renown level EACH time. It's not just a daily reward anymore, it's a reward every time you do a random Vet FP.

Yeah, I know, maybe BW should do something, yada, yada, yada. Meanwhile, suck it up.

Naive point of view. People don't suck it up, they find ways to deal with and what they do is not beneficial to people like you. They essentially leave those groups because they'd rather wait 15 mins or go to an alt then deal with these unrewarding experiences.

 

My point of view is that you shouldn't put things that aren't remotely equal in the same roulette with the same rewards. It's a poor design that causes people to try to fudge the RNG game. It happens also with the GF dailies for Ops. BW thought to be clever to put all single Ops bosses in there and now everybody is running TC for it instead of full ops. Great idea.

 

People adapt. It's our evolutionary prerogative if you will. Most people don't suck it up, they find ways around it. How much fun is it for people to get into a FP and instantly one or two people quit because they don't want to deal with that one? Well, that's the consequence.

 

Maybe, just maybe from that point of view, you should be interested in BW doing something about this. People run FPs for gearing to 306 asap, not because they love doing those FPs. Think about that because that's the reason why people do a lot that they don't necessarily enjoy to the detriment of those that do enjoy it.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Tsillah

My point of view is that it's perfectly fine to request that some FPs be put in a separate queue, etc (whether I agree with them or not), but meanwhile, it's a dick move to drop out of GF, just because you don't get the FP you want.

Either join GF and suck it up if it's not a flashpoint you want, or do the FPs in MM or solo mode. Or simply do something else. Have some self respect. 😋

My point of view is that it's perfectly fine to request that some FPs be put in a separate queue, etc (whether I agree with them or not), but meanwhile, it's a dick move to drop out of GF, just because you don't get the FP you want.

Either join GF and suck it up if it's not a flashpoint you want, or do the FPs in MM or solo mode. Or simply do something else. Have some self respect. 😋

For Kuat I can understand that view but for the most recent ones, particularly Copero and Nathema people actually struggle. I've been in there and stuck with it only to have people drop out at the start and during it and the group not being able to kill the last boss so we had to give up. It's very frustrating when people are just unwilling to listen or think they know better insisting on the same mistakes. I have too much self-respect to deal with that kind of BS.

 

BW have started growing this type of player base starting with 4.0. The complete democratizaion of BiS gear brought the efficiency gaming to FPs in 6.0. And there are a few that are considered ineffcient. It's very similar to when they put the rare mats in the PvP Group Ranked in 5.0 and people who didn't care for PvP were "infesting" PvP and throwing matches just to get it over with and get the mats from the dailies. Now you got an overload of efficiency farmers in the FP queues.

 

As much as you think they're *****, it's also what BW has enabled, supported and steers towards. People are people, most of em don't care, they just want their gear and they want it now. They see not wasting their own time as having self-respect.

Kuat always reminded me of a kumquat ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's your problem. The point of the random reward is to encourage players to do a greater selection of FPs, thereby filling groups for players who are only running a specific selection of FPs. You're accepting the chance of getting a FP you don't like by queueing for all of them.

 

There are plenty of players who only queue for Hammer Station and Athiss, because they're the fastest/easiest. You'll still get normal loot from the bosses and completing the FP, which is where the bulk of the rewards are anyway.

 

Not sure if you've played Kuat Drive Yards since the expansion dropped, but this isn't actually the case. Only one boss in KDY drops actual loot, the final boss, and they drop the normal amount of loot for a boss. None of the droids/optional bosses along the way drop loot from my experience, unless they've changed it recently. That means you'll only get about a third of the normal loot from the bosses since there's only 1 boss instead of 3.

 

Add that on top of the fact that it generally takes longer since it's been so long since people have played it that most people have forgotten how to do it and it's neither fun or rewarding in 6.0. It needs to be updated to be as rewarding as the other flashpoints or it needs to be removed from the rotation at higher levels similar to The Esseles/Black Talon.

 

I'm happy to run any of the other Flashpoints, I don't even generally mind running level 70 flashpoints like Copero even if they take a lot longer, but KDY is the exception for me due to the lack of loot. It's just a waste of time for all involved, since most other (more rewarding) flashpoints give just as much XP for a quicker and more rewarding experience. I don't see a reason for KDY to exist in its current form apart from rep.

Not sure if you've played Kuat Drive Yards since the expansion dropped, but this isn't actually the case. Only one boss in KDY drops actual loot, the final boss, and they drop the normal amount of loot for a boss. None of the droids/optional bosses along the way drop loot from my experience, unless they've changed it recently. That means you'll only get about a third of the normal loot from the bosses since there's only 1 boss instead of 3.

 

Add that on top of the fact that it generally takes longer since it's been so long since people have played it that most people have forgotten how to do it and it's neither fun or rewarding in 6.0. It needs to be updated to be as rewarding as the other flashpoints or it needs to be removed from the rotation at higher levels similar to The Esseles/Black Talon.

 

I'm happy to run any of the other Flashpoints, I don't even generally mind running level 70 flashpoints like Copero even if they take a lot longer, but KDY is the exception for me due to the lack of loot. It's just a waste of time for all involved, since most other (more rewarding) flashpoints give just as much XP for a quicker and more rewarding experience. I don't see a reason for KDY to exist in its current form apart from rep.

 

I was talking about short/easy FPs like Hammer Station and Athiss. Even if you queue into those ones exclusively, you'll still gain normal FP rewards, which is why a lot of people do exactly that. There are much more difficult FPs like Nathema Conspiracy, and ones with much longer cutscenes like Taral V, Maelstrom Prison, Boarding Party, and The Foundry.

 

Kuat Drive Yards actually has five different scenarios(and three different final boss scenarios), so at least it's not repetitive. For those who don't like it, the option to deselect it is available to them. The only reason I can see them removing it from the queue altogether, is if it couldn't be tuned to be role-neutral like some other FPs removed from the veteran queue. Comparatively, it's really neither a long nor difficult FP.

To appease people, wouldn't the simplest fix on BioWare's side simply be to equalize the loot, so that the boss of Kuat drops more?

 

Or else add a loot chest after each scenario is completed.

To appease people, wouldn't the simplest fix on BioWare's side simply be to equalize the loot, so that the boss of Kuat drops more?

 

Or else add a loot chest after each scenario is completed.

It would address my concern with regards to Kuat specifically, but whether it's a simple fix or not I couldn't possibly say.

To appease people, wouldn't the simplest fix on BioWare's side simply be to equalize the loot, so that the boss of Kuat drops more?

 

Or else add a loot chest after each scenario is completed.

 

Either one of these solutions would be totally fine by me. Kuat's design isn't inherently bad, just tedious for the reward offered.

Things have changed. For FPs the GF random reward is no longer a daily but each time. It also means extra loot and tech frags each time.

 

The problem with Kuat Drive is that it doesn't have multiple boss fights so therefore loot in that FP is crap. So it doesn't fit in the current gearing system.

 

The same goes for the latest FPs Umbara, Copero and Nathema but for a different reason. These FPs are a lot tougher which means that usually the group falls apart at the start because people start leaving as soon as they see the relevant quest in their quest log...meaning they don't even enter the FP and quit the group. And replacements often don't want to do those either leaving the remaining players with having to quit and get a 15 min ban because other people left.

 

The overarching problem is that BW fails to level dificulty within the group of choices on the GF and this means that all are not equal but are treated as if they are equal. Their latest disaster of the Ops set up in the GF is another example. People fudge the GF to get TC or Queen for the easy reward...in this case it is a daily reward. Why? Because most people want the quick rewards and not do a full ops or because they get the Colossal Monolith which most pugs don't know what to do with...and then you get leavers as well.

 

But there simply is content that shouldn't be part of the GF because they are not equal at all. Sure, nothing is exactly equal but I think I don't need to explain the difference in difficulty between Athiss and Nathema. Or between EV and the Gods operation. People simply don't do the harder ones because it's not worth the effort or it's too hard for them and because most content is dead easy they are unwilling to learn. But I mean Izax SM is an entirely category than Karagga for example. And this is also the same with FP bosses from FP to FP.

 

So for FPs I think that Kuat should be it's own category that gives lots of XP and is available for below 75 only (as leveling FP) OR give more loot during that FP and the last 3 FPs should be in a separate queue that people can select and get rewards for doing all 3 in a week. Call them Challenge Flash Points or whatever and make it a nice reward so people are actually motivated to do them. Cause as long as groups fall apart because of quitters, they add no value to the current GF set up that is supposed to get people to play together.

 

I didn't realize that, thanks for the info.

To appease people, wouldn't the simplest fix on BioWare's side simply be to equalize the loot, so that the boss of Kuat drops more?

 

Or else add a loot chest after each scenario is completed.

 

Would love to see a Boss halfway in (maybe blocking one of the Elevators) that also drops loot.

For Kuat I can understand that view but for the most recent ones, particularly Copero and Nathema people actually struggle.

 

The tuning on the last boss fight in Nathema for veteran absolutely sucks. I'm not remotely surprised players struggle with it.

Would love to see a Boss halfway in (maybe blocking one of the Elevators) that also drops loot.

 

Could just add a boss loot table to the champions in each phase. Problem solved.

For KDY it would be nice if the "bonus" champion bosses along the way would drop 6.0 style loot. There's no "boss" as such in each segment, to drop loot, but there is a champion.

Since 6.0 dropped quick-n-easy flashpoints are the norm.

i agree. i hate KDY

I disagree, Kuat is easy enough, and the multiple differene scenarios/end bosses means each run is a little bit different.

 

Don't like a flashpoint? Use the filter. That's what it is there for.

 

Flashpoints are not supposed to be used solely as grindy quick gearing runs, they are there to add a bit of variety to the game.

 

They are there to be run for fun.

 

Remember fun? What you're supposed to have when you're playing the game.

 

Use the filter, or better yet pre-form a group and only run the mind-numbing boring fp over and over if that's what you want to do.

Don't wanna spam another thread, so I'll leave that here.

 

Just finished a run with some lowbies and I can say, that last sith boss is a bad joke for casual player base.

I was on my dirty fighting slinger, so you know - a lot of channeling skills, which is almost impossible to execute there, cuz you have to run all the time from kolto to kolto and when you get there, either you have to avoid the red circle or got stunned.

So, i have to damage down 3.5 mil hit points mostly with my dots. Seriously, the 3 bosses combine in RR MM have less HP?!

 

And the last phase? 2 of our party died because they got stunned on the red circles and after 15 min there was only me. Stun after stun after stun. Can't even take one step without get knockout... and finally, my time has come.

 

Maybe with 4 75 dps and maybe a tank this fight is breeze, idk, but otherwise it's a waste of time.

People do Vets for a faster reward, not for this crap. Not fun.

Edited January 25, 2020 by bgstranger

The only reason I can see them removing it from the queue altogether, is if it couldn't be tuned to be role-neutral like some other FPs removed from the veteran queue.

It would be really weird if KDY was removed from the queue for resisting role neutrality. It was originally the archetype (and only) role-neutral ("Tactical") FP, with all the other normal-mode ones joining it when 4.0 dropped, and the tag [VETERAN] landed on them when 5.0 dropped.

Just finished a run with some lowbies and I can say, that last sith boss is a bad joke for casual player base.

I was on my dirty fighting slinger, so you know - a lot of channeling skills, which is almost impossible to execute there, cuz you have to run all the time from kolto to kolto and when you get there, either you have to avoid the red circle or got stunned.

 

And the last phase? 2 of our party died because they got stunned on the red circles and after 15 min there was only me. Stun after stun after stun. Can't even take one step without get knockout... and finally, my time has come.

In the last couple of days I've done KDY twice (at least) with that boss. The first time sounds like your group. There were at least 2 players who were new to KDY. I seemed to be both squishy and the main target so 2 of us died quite soon. After a wipe, it was a repeat scenario with one of the two remaining players attacking the boss while the other guy ran from kolto to kolto doing no damage. It took forever, but they did finally finish it.

 

The second time, we killed the boss fairly quickly with no problems. I don't remember the make-up of either group, but the second one had more experienced players who knew what to do. So, much less standing in red circles, and much more efficient use of koltos. 🙂

 

Bottom line - veteran mode GF flashpoints are always a mixed bag of new/old noob/exp players. But that can be half the fun. 🤔

It's in conquest this week, ergo it gets more played

It's in conquest this week, ergo it gets more played

 

The OP is from 2 weeks ago, lol.

 

 

It's already been mentioned that the FPs people complain about getting all the time also happen to be the only ones that can pop for low levels (HS, ATHIS, KDY etc). If queue pops and there is a level 15/16 in your group, you're getting HS or KDY.

 

Also, about 8 times out of 10, those low level players are bad. Like, really bad. The worst noobs I've seen in decades of gaming. So, your run is probably going to suck. And if it's going to suck, I'd rather it be a short FP like HS and not a longer one (with less loot) like KDY.

 

Now, I don't mind carrying people a bit, most of my characters are maxed out. Although, it's funny when I'm carrying higher levels on my 42 Knight. But, explaining to newbies about LOS or, ya know, their CLASS HEALTH REGEN (seriously?) doesn't do any damn good if they don't read chat. Sorry, guess I needed to vent. I'm done now.

The OP is from 2 weeks ago, lol.

 

 

It's already been mentioned that the FPs people complain about getting all the time also happen to be the only ones that can pop for low levels (HS, ATHIS, KDY etc). If queue pops and there is a level 15/16 in your group, you're getting HS or KDY.

 

Also, about 8 times out of 10, those low level players are bad. Like, really bad. The worst noobs I've seen in decades of gaming. So, your run is probably going to suck. And if it's going to suck, I'd rather it be a short FP like HS and not a longer one (with less loot) like KDY.

 

Now, I don't mind carrying people a bit, most of my characters are maxed out. Although, it's funny when I'm carrying higher levels on my 42 Knight. But, explaining to newbies about LOS or, ya know, their CLASS HEALTH REGEN (seriously?) doesn't do any damn good if they don't read chat. Sorry, guess I needed to vent. I'm done now.

 

You're absolutely right, and I did not see that since it was on front page. Sorry about that

Also, about 8 times out of 10, those low level players are bad. Like, really bad. The worst noobs I've seen in decades of gaming. So, your run is probably going to suck. And if it's going to suck, I'd rather it be a short FP like HS and not a longer one (with less loot) like KDY.

I'd have disagree with this. In fact, I find it to be quite the opposite. About 3/4 of the time, the low level players are experienced players who are just leveling an alt. And these low level alts are often much better than some level 75 who decided to try Flashpoints for the first time. 🙂

Edited January 28, 2020 by JediQuaker