Jump to content

New Sorcerer Tree


AvengeAll

Recommended Posts

I have been experiment with the trees this whole afternoon now with the 3 specs and im sad to announce that my conclusions SO FAR is that the "new" tree doesnt help us at all.

 

Awkward "skill taxes" like "Reserver" and "Electric Inductions" are still there, all they do is "rob" us of 5 points and they should be baseline or merged with more usefull skills.

 

Madness tree lost the skill to make whirlind instant which is a big dissapointment.

 

Light tree now hogs to good skills like bubble stun and root on knockback but lightning itself is not viable

 

Its possible to go hybrid as a healer with self bubble stun (heal / light hybrid) but its way worse than our current heal / light hybrid since you have to sacrifice too much and we still lack root on knockback.

 

Full heals does heals for a ton, its also a glorified sitting duck with zero survivability, not much different from our current full heals build on live.

 

Force Barrier is a good adition to our class but not strong enough to make us competitve because our skill trees are awkward, with literaly zero burst damage or survivability coming from our DPS trees, no self sustainability from our heal tree, we start 2.0 in a worse spot actually.

 

My analysis of 2.0 so far: Force Barrier is awesome but the class received an overall nerf. Heals is kind of the same it was in live with a tad more healing and less survivability and DPS is really screwed up with no meaningful improvements to the trees.

 

Scum and villainy indeed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been looking at the new tree since the security key crap makes me unable to play and it looks like you can get some pretty nice dps hybrid specs out of it

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000023120202120012000000000000000003020322013120010122030000000000&ver=20 0/18/28

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000023120202120212023020020000000003020312013100010000000000000000&ver=20 0/29/17

 

Sure theres more builds you could do this is just what i came up with intitially. Potentially you can have both aoe attacks of each tree and have full dmg of one or the other with the new tree layout.

Edited by AngusFTW
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too many PVP skills that a PVE player will be forced to put points into just to do a full madness or lightning spec.

I feel your pain, to many wasted points into lightning just to get a self bubble stun. But of course Bioware cant seem to get the sorcs right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I reading this right and Thundering Blast is now instant?

 

Despite all the clearly pvp focused talents, I'm glad they're at least attempting to make Lightning more appealing - I personally always preffered it.

 

What I don't understand is why they've included Lightning Strike(LS) in one of the top tier Madness talents "Focal Lightning" Are they trying to add more incentive for Madness to also use LS? My question would simply be...why?

Edited by Kyhren
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having tested all the specs I can tell you for a fact these changes make a massive difference. Lightning has some really good burst and madness damage is significantly better as well. I disagree with losing instant whirlwind but I'm incredibly happy with EVERY other change.

 

Thundering Blast is not instant, but it hits much harder now and can proc a second blast like the lightning strike/chain lightning dupe talent we're used to. If you chain thundering blast with CL and you get these procs it puts out a lot of damage in an extremely short amount of time.

 

The focal lightning and lightning burns thing triggering from Lightning Strike would indeed be to encourage you to use it more, but as it happens it actually does a fair bit of damage with the wrath proc. Around 4-5k crits in the new gear (and this is without optimized stats) pushing that damage up to 6-7k if lightning burns procs from it. Not bad for a mobile filler or finisher ability. You can easily weave these in when CD is on cooldown and it does a hell of a lot more damage than shock.

Edited by Elvandar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys kidding?

 

Sorcs are now stronger than they were pre-1.2. While we don't have chain off wrath, our path to getting to an instant cl does more damage (lightning strike, reverberating force, buff in damage, increase in wrath damage), also the chance for a cl proc has doubled. CL does more damage (reverberating force, buff in damage).

 

I list reverberating force because it is now low enough in the tree to get. Sorcs have far more damage potential now then they ever did pre 1.2. The hybrid spec that ruled then is now much better than it was. Good sorcs will be the unmatched kings of dps in pvp.

Edited by Commissar_Omega
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys kidding?

 

Sorcs are now stronger than they were pre-1.2. While we don't have chain off wrath, our path to getting to an instant cl does more damage (lightning strike, reverberating force, buff in damage, increase in wrath damage), also the chance for a cl proc has doubled. CL does more damage (reverberating force, buff in damage).

 

I list reverberating force because it is now low enough in the tree to get. Sorcs have far more damage potential now then they ever did pre 1.2. The hybrid spec that ruled then is now much better than it was. Good sorcs will be the unmatched kings of dps in pvp.

 

Ive tested it as well and I completely agree that sorcs will be good again if we get these buffs when it hits live

 

How ever the buffs I've seen to other classes may put us back in our place again. If we are criting for 6k but others are now criting for 9k ours buffs won't mean anything . Keep in mind test center is so bugging right now. The stats and damages are messed up. So I'm doing this as a wait and see kind of thing. I critd for 8k in a war zone on pst but I've been hit for 10k by a sniper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Death Field strikes up to 5 targets :rak_01:

 

However, loosing an instant whirlwind seems a big loss for me.

 

Also, it would be great to see some ability that teleports a party member to your location.

Edited by Taankjr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just looking at the trees, from the numbers and thematic perspective, it looks cleaner than before.

 

The Good:

First, Chain Shock has been moved to lightning, which, frankly, makes sense. However, there are tons of other boxes put into lightning to make shock an unused ability.

Second, Force Horrors has been nerfed and brought down to T2. This is good for increasing the DoT feel of early madness, bad for overall madness DPS.

Third, Polarity Shift has been taken off the trees and made innate.

Fourth, Lightning Burns is a great touch for making lightning make more sense for Madness.

Fifth, Chaos Nexus helps the lightning tree a lot.

Sixth, Force Suffusion and Sap Strength help healing, especially for lower levels

Seventh, Corrupted Barrier

Eighth, Lucidity grants almost the same buff for one point that used to cost three

Ninth, Death field now hits up to five, finally...

 

The Bad:

First, the T7 for Madness, and moving all the T7 abilities to T8

Second, Forked Darkness puts Wrath out of reach, and why have a darkness ability in the lightning chain?

Third, Lightning Burns, Focal Lightning, and Wrath push for increased use of Lightning Strike, complicating rotations

Fourth, Haunted Dreams supernerf

Fifth, Backlash supernerf

 

The Ugly:

First, Lightning Spire still doesn't help force Lightning or Electrocute

Second, Reverse Corruptions implies what they think of making healing builds survivable. In other words, they are not going to make you survivable, so just hide behind a wall and then run away.

Third, half the midtier lightning abilities are chained together.

Fourth, moving from a T7 to a T8 tree system means that full builds are not going to get more interesting.

Fifth, T7s have become T8s.

Sixth, doing testing while there is a live event.

 

 

That's all I have, for those of you who have tested, tell me if I'm wrong.

Edited by ZeppFreeloader
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ive tested it as well and I completely agree that sorcs will be good again if we get these buffs when it hits live

 

How ever the buffs I've seen to other classes may put us back in our place again.

 

Relax man, I also had this concern so I transfered over all my characters and tested every class to get an idea of what numbers each could pull off. Suffice to say the Sorcerer did extremely well and Lightning in particular appeared to be in the top 3. Madness is worse but only marginally.

 

I'll say this as clearly as possible for anyone wondering. The changes our class has received are making a massive difference. We haven't felt this strong since launch, if not stronger than we were at launch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Relax man, I also had this concern so I transfered over all my characters and tested every class to get an idea of what numbers each could pull off. Suffice to say the Sorcerer did extremely well and Lightning in particular appeared to be in the top 3. Madness is worse but only marginally.

 

I'll say this as clearly as possible for anyone wondering. The changes our class has received are making a massive difference. We haven't felt this strong since launch, if not stronger than we were at launch.

 

Have any dps parses to share? I'm still hearing Vanguards and Sentinels are outdoing Sage dps. I can't get my sage copied over to test it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have any parses I can share right now no. Pyros and Marauders are still very strong classes, but sage dps definitely feels more on par with them. I doubt we can expect to beat good sentinels or gunslingers but as a raw dps class you kind of expect that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have any parses I can share right now no. Pyros and Marauders are still very strong classes, but sage dps definitely feels more on par with them. I doubt we can expect to beat good sentinels or gunslingers but as a raw dps class you kind of expect that.

 

Do you happen to recall about what kind of dps you were pumping out with your sorc?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Firstly, whoever said Sage/Sorc dps matches Pyros and Mara to you my good sir I laugh at. The Overall Damage we do may eventually match but not the outright dps which is disappointing.

 

Anyways.......idky the earlier post condemned Sorcs so badly IMO we got mch better. For me as a Madness i have no problem using Wrath+LS if itll drop and extra dot and do a bit more damage. Granted Ill still use Wrath+CD but only when Deathmark isnt up so I can now exploit LS boosted damage, burn lightning, and forcel lightning for more Force Lightning in my rotation. Plus ummm Deathfield now up to 5ppl? Yes please! The only question is will I start hitting for 5k with that move or did BW just keep up grasping at straws on that note (and this is for PvP and PvE).

 

Middle ground: madness gets access to polarity shift. Um okay? We dont have anything we particularly need to cast though yeah i pumping out more FL will be a bit nice but i dont see a need for it.

 

*** Bioware: no insta-whirlwind

 

(Never tried Lightning spec so wont comment on it)

 

All-in-all I see Sorcs/Sages dps as being much bette than before and Madness/Balance in particular being able to exploit a previous uselessly aided ability. Seems good to me in a new 3/7/36 tree

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have any dps parses to share? I'm still hearing Vanguards and Sentinels are outdoing Sage dps. I can't get my sage copied over to test it out.

 

Right now, the only testing options can be somewhat misleading. The operation test dummy on your ship is only level 50 operation boss material so, of course, your dps will be higher. Fleet is still a laggy mess but is the only place that you'll find the Level 55 operation boss. I've put in requests on the PTS forum to get the dummy in the ship to be level 55 so we can do some proper testing with less lag issues.

 

From a PVE perspective, the builds do seem to do more damage (especially lightning). I was doing 2k in the free gear against the level 55 operation dummy with an armor debuff. Highest crit with Thundering Blast // CL were 6508 // 5538, respectively. (The TB proc crit hit for 1705). There were absolutely NO force issues with Lightning either and it should also be noted that Lightning strike finally hits for a decent number (crit for 4k).

 

Madness I had a smaller force issue but nothing that dropped me below 50%. The problem with it is it doesn't -feel- different at all. Lightning is very noticeable in the damage difference because you can see some actual big numbers for a change.

 

I'll try to do some parses today, maybe fleet will be a little less crowded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest problem I see with the Madness tree is that Creeping has been moved up a tier, meaning five more points for it, and the tier 7 boxes do not look all that worthwhile. That and the loss of insta-WW and the force horrors nerf are problematic.

 

They move up all the optimal abilities in every tree.....

 

Everyone is annoyed with that >_______>

 

And i dont think Force horrors got nerfed on the contrary it effecting Afflication, CT, and CD and possible Burn Lightning is better than just the added time for Affliction. Yea maybe you have to place Affliction more on ops bosses or players in pvp but itll hit harder and Burn Lightning (im assuming this was BW thinking) is a small supplement to that loss in Affliction duration. The non-instawind is a nerf clearly along the lines of our knockback and healing, etc but Force Horrors just got better to me. Plus its not CD so no casting and i doubt the force cost for affliction is so radical that you will always be below 50%

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right now, the only testing options can be somewhat misleading. The operation test dummy on your ship is only level 50 operation boss material so, of course, your dps will be higher. Fleet is still a laggy mess but is the only place that you'll find the Level 55 operation boss. I've put in requests on the PTS forum to get the dummy in the ship to be level 55 so we can do some proper testing with less lag issues.

 

From a PVE perspective, the builds do seem to do more damage (especially lightning). I was doing 2k in the free gear against the level 55 operation dummy with an armor debuff. Highest crit with Thundering Blast // CL were 6508 // 5538, respectively. (The TB proc crit hit for 1705). There were absolutely NO force issues with Lightning either and it should also be noted that Lightning strike finally hits for a decent number (crit for 4k).

 

Madness I had a smaller force issue but nothing that dropped me below 50%. The problem with it is it doesn't -feel- different at all. Lightning is very noticeable in the damage difference because you can see some actual big numbers for a change.

 

I'll try to do some parses today, maybe fleet will be a little less crowded.

 

Lightning does feel even busier (which is a good thing, imo) and madness seems to have just added occasional lightning strikes, but I was getting a solid 100 more DPS with the latter (~1950 vs 1850, no armor debuff, only the inquisitor buff...hybrid was even lower because barrage procced way less than it does on live). Might be the (strange) default optimization in the gear though. Used to 9%-ish activation speed not 2%.

 

Although, maybe it's just that without enough accuracy lightning's attacks are missing and madness' dots and (now) bleeds aren't? Because Lightning "feels" and looks more powerful when the numbers are popping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote=Sosajoshua;5897812

And i dont think Force horrors got nerfed on the contrary it effecting Afflication, CT, and CD and possible Burn Lightning is better than just the added time for Affliction.

 

Let me rephrase then, Force Horrors got nerfed for hybrids, although it may be a little better for Madness builds. I still have little motivation to take anything in T7, and investing enough to get Creeping Terror seems even less desirable, so I don't see myself going pure Madness. I'm actually looking at a 23/7/16 hybrid, although that may switch depending on testing. The top tier abilities do not justify the unlock, and there are so many goodies in the bottom five tiers of the trees that I still see hybrid as the way to go.

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=132010212122120001200000000000000023000200000000000000000000000003222302000100010000000000000000&ver=20

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...