I was originally going to do something different for this issue, but I thought this topic needed to be brought into the light. As the title states, this is part 1. Part 1 will address the time between the Battle of Ruusan and The Dark Times, which will also explain the "power gap" between the Old Jedi Order and the Prequel Jedi Order, as well as the power gap between Bane and Sidious.

So let's begin.

The Final Battle of Ruusan brought about the end of the Brotherhood of Darkness and brought an era of peace. Unfortunately the Sith lived on in Darth Bane. You all know the story of Darth Bane. The Sith Lord took an apprentice into hiding and instituted the Rule of Two. The premise of this rule is to keep the Sith hidden from prying eyes and slowly increase the power of the Dark Side to the point that one Sith Lord could have as much power as an army of Sith. This would be accomplished by having the master teach the apprentice what he knows and then the apprentice betrays the master and continues the cycle. Bane would use this to create the ultimate Sith Lord and bring about an end to the Jedi and the Republic. For while the Sith grew strong, the Jedi would weaken. But Bane only knew of the Dark Side's power and how to increase the power of the Dark Side. Bane didn't realize that he would also increase the strength of the Jedi Order.

The Death of Lord Kaan and his Brotherhood brought a millenia of peace. During this time, the Jedi Order returned to their enclaves and temples to commune with the Light Side of the Force. This time of peace brought understanding and an increased knowledge of the Force. But over time, many Jedi worried about the possible return of the Sith. Under the guidance of wise Jedi Masters, one of whom was Yoda, the Jedi Order began preparing for the inevitable return of the Sith Empire. The Jedi began increasing their knowledge of the Force, as well as perfecting their dueling skills and mastery of the Lightsaber forms. And with each new generation of Jedi, the Order's power grew. By the time Master Qui-Gon Jinn found the Chosen One on Tatooine, Master Yoda believed the Jedi Order was ready.

Events moved quickly after the return of the Sith and the deaths of Qui-Gon and Darth Maul. War would erupt and the Jedi would be the ones to lead the Republic into battle. But they were all deceived. Many of you know what happens next. Chancellor Palpatine reveals himself as the epitome of Bane's Rule of Two, which lead to the inevitable confrontation with the Jedi. Jedi Master Mace Windu led three of the best Jedi in the Order to arrest Chancellor Palpatine, who had been revealed to the Jedi by Anakin Skywalker to be Darth Sidious. The Sith Lord cut down three of the Jedi Masters within seconds and began a duel with Master Windu. After a lengthy battle, Master Windu came out the victor. But Sidious had been stalling for Anakin Skywalker to arrive. Years of manipulation would pay off when Skywalker aided the wounded Sith Lord in defeating Mace Windu.

But the Jedi would have one last chance to defeat the new Sith. Obi-Wan Kenobi took the battle to the newly annointed Darth Vader while Yoda did battle with the insidious Sith Lord. The venerable Jedi went toe-to-toe with the Sith Lord, but he soon realized that he had been preparing to face the original Sith Empire. This new Sith Lord was far more powerful than Yoda had thought. So the Jedi Master fled the battle to live to fight another day. He had hoped Obi-Wan would be more successful. And he was. After a long battle, Kenobi turned out the victor but his emotions prevented him from doing what was right to save the galaxy. He had hoped Vader would perish on the lava shores of Mustafar. Unfortunately, Darth Sidious arrived on the scene and saved the wounded Sith Lord by putting him into a life support suit. The Jedi Order had been defeated and the rest of the Jedi went into exile, never to be heard from again.

So this leads me to address the "power gap" that I mentioned before. I will address the Sith power gap first.

It is common knowledge that Darth Sidious was the epitome of the Sith. He realized Darth Bane's vision. The cycle of the Rule of Two ensured this outcome. Each new Sith apprentice would become stronger than the master and, in true Sith fashion, cut down the master. The final betrayal of the Rule of Two was Sidious killing Darth Plagueis. With each betrayal in the Banite line, the Sith increased in power, hence Sidious being so strong.

But why are the Jedi so powerful? What makes them so much better than their Old Republic counter-parts?

The answer is quite simple. While the Sith gained power through the natural cycle of the ROT, the Jedi grew in power during the millenia of peace. While the OR Jedi had war experience, they do not gain power from war. War feeds the Dark Side, makes the Sith stronger. But it affects the Jedi differently. For lack of a better word, their power stagnates. While they gain battle experience, as well as developing martial skills, they do not increase in power. What increases the power of the Jedi is peace. Give the Jedi ten years of peace and they're good. But the Banite Sith gave the Jedi one thousand years of peace. During this time, the Jedi could increase their connection to the Force and perfect their training in the Lightsaber forms. What resulted from this was a collection of Jedi that were the most powerful Jedi ever seen.

Now there are exceptions to this, but only a rare few. Those who's power transcend the gap usually have something very special or rare going for them. Traya with her Force drain ability (and other rare abilities). Kun with his raw power. I could say Satele Shan, but I don't know much about her to make an accurate decision. These are only a few of the handful of individuals that have something that can allow them to stand within the PT Jedi Order's league.

My final thought for Part 1 involves characters that, while remarkable in their time, do not hold a candle to their future counter-parts. Characters like Malak and Revan may be powerful at their time, but they don't have what it takes to stand on the same pedestal as the Jedi and Sith of the Prequels. They have remarkable feats, but they don't have a leg-up on them. The PT Jedi have what they have and much more.

I probably shouldn't have said that, but it's the truth. I'm going to ask that no one start an argument over that. This is meant to be educational for some and an enjoyable read for others.

So that's it for part 1. Part 2 will be released in a few days. We will be discussing Jedi and Sith training methods as well as some other important stuff.

If you have a topic you would like to see in a future thread, you can post it here or send me a message. If I like the idea, I'll be sure to mention you.

Great post.

I actually like the RoT, I know there are people out there who think its dumbest thing ever but really, its actually one of the smartest things ever. Or how people say PJO is weak even though it holds Mace, Kenobi, The Chosen One, Yoda, Kit Fisto, etc. And those guys are top dogs...

things seem wrong.

not sure if it is your interpretation is wrong or if it was badly thought out story to begin with.

old republic - 100s if not 1000s of sith and jedi, constantly battling, there is a term widely used by the military "battle hardened", the idea that ppl studying and praying for 1000 years only ever sparing against friendlys would be more powerful, than well trained, heavily tested, battle hardened warriors. is either wrong or bad writing.

war makes the darkside stronger (this is what was said in the OP), old republic era is war time. and there are 100s if not 1000s of sith, all drawing off the power of a war fed darkside. jedi are weakened by war yet the jedi are the victors when it coems to the hyperspace war, and the mandalorian war. and we know the end of the swtor story end with the jedi winning. all the sith ever do is win battles. even at this time when the jedi should be at its weakest.

hear we are not in PT era, with the most powerful jedi ever excluding luke, 1000 years of peace to meditate and feed off the lightside, this where the jedi should be almost like gods. and the sith only 2 of them weakened from the fact there is no war for the darkside to feed off. (this is why palpatine needed the trade federation war and the clone wars, even still them wars wouldn't compare to sith and jedi in large numbers warring against eatchother) yet this is when the jedi fall. the best of the best almost god like jedi wiped out by 2 sith.

again that doesn't make sense, and here is why it doesn't make sense

GL wants his jedi and his sith to be the best of the best. and his orders defy logic, ppl can try and bend it to fit the way GL wants it to be, but you can't escape the fact that 9th century vikings were more power than 1960s hippies.

i love star wars, and when you just enjoy the story's and dont' try to justify ever little thing and don't listen to what george has to say on the matter its alot more enjoyable, bobo is alive and running around, revan is quite an OP sort of guy. and 10 sith shooting lightening at you is just as scary as sidious shooting lightening at you

things seem wrong.

 

not sure if it is your interpretation is wrong or if it was badly thought out story to begin with.

 

old republic - 100s if not 1000s of sith and jedi, constantly battling, there is a term widely used by the military "battle hardened", the idea that ppl studying and praying for 1000 years only ever sparing against friendlys would be more powerful, than well trained, heavily tested, battle hardened warriors. is either wrong or bad writing.

 

war makes the darkside stronger (this is what was said in the OP), old republic era is war time. and there are 100s if not 1000s of sith, all drawing off the power of a war fed darkside. jedi are weakened by war yet the jedi are the victors when it coems to the hyperspace war, and the mandalorian war. and we know the end of the swtor story end with the jedi winning. all the sith ever do is win battles. even at this time when the jedi should be at its weakest.

 

hear we are not in PT era, with the most powerful jedi ever excluding luke, 1000 years of peace to meditate and feed off the lightside, this where the jedi should be almost like gods. and the sith only 2 of them weakened from the fact there is no war for the darkside to feed off. (this is why palpatine needed the trade federation war and the clone wars, even still them wars wouldn't compare to sith and jedi in large numbers warring against eatchother) yet this is when the jedi fall. the best of the best almost god like jedi wiped out by 2 sith.

 

again that doesn't make sense, and here is why it doesn't make sense

 

GL wants his jedi and his sith to be the best of the best. and his orders defy logic, ppl can try and bend it to fit the way GL wants it to be, but you can't escape the fact that 9th century vikings were more power than 1960s hippies.

 

i love star wars, and when you just enjoy the story's and dont' try to justify ever little thing and don't listen to what george has to say on the matter its alot more enjoyable, bobo is alive and running around, revan is quite an OP sort of guy. and 10 sith shooting lightening at you is just as scary as sidious shooting lightening at you

The RoT Banite Sith were better than anyother Sith before them because they never turned on eachother until the apprentice was powerful and smart enough to become the master.

Not like Revan and Malak where Malak was nowhere near Revan in terms of power but he defeated Revan though cheap strategy that took no thought or skill to conduct.'

Thats why having 100s of Sith is terrible because they'll turn on eachother and kill eachother before the Jedi even execute an attack.

The RoT Banite Sith were better than anyother Sith before them because they never turned on eachother until the apprentice was powerful and smart enough to become the master.

 

sidious beat his master, that must have been some epic battle. with sidious being the strongest sith ever and his master plagueis being the second strongest ever, i can imagine it now 2 warriors crossing lightsibers under a moonlight sky, using the force to dance round eachothers for hours till in the end the stronger sith won.

oh wait, sidious killed plagueis while he slept , as he knew he wasn't powerful enough to take him in a head on fight. soudns like he won with superior strategy to me, looks like revan and malik arn't alone

things seem wrong.

 

not sure if it is your interpretation is wrong or if it was badly thought out story to begin with.

 

 

 

war makes the darkside stronger (this is what was said in the OP), old republic era is war time. and there are 100s if not 1000s of sith, all drawing off the power of a war fed darkside. jedi are weakened by war yet the jedi are the victors when it coems to the hyperspace war, and the mandalorian war. and we know the end of the swtor story end with the jedi winning. all the sith ever do is win battles. even at this time when the jedi should be at its weakest.

 

Do we know this officially though? I was under the impression what we know is the Republic and the Jedi survive and this version of the Sith Empire ceases to exist. What we think we know is Darth Ruin's Sith Empire is built upon the 50 Jedi Knights that fall with him and pockets of Sith left over from this current Empire.

It maybe semantics, but I see a huge difference between winning and just surviving.

sidious beat his master, that must have been some epic battle. with sidious being the strongest sith ever and his master plagueis being the second strongest ever, i can imagine it now 2 warriors crossing lightsibers under a moonlight sky, using the force to dance round eachothers for hours till in the end the stronger sith won.

 

oh wait, sidious killed plagueis while he slept , as he knew he wasn't powerful enough to take him in a head on fight. soudns like he won with superior strategy to me, looks like revan and malik arn't alone

You need to go look at what I said, Powerful and Smarter.

If you've actually read the Darth Plageuis novel you would know that Plageuis trained himself to never sleep. But Palps outsmarted him and used Alcohol to make him drunk. Utilizing Plageuis's greatest weakness, able to save others but not himself. Palps then, now a master of Force Lightning due to Plageuis's teachings, electrocuted him.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but the Jedi of the movies and after the movies are not ALL better then the Jedi of the Old Republic. Could you explain to me where it says that 100% of the Jedi you've named are better then the Jedi of old?

George Lucas is on record as saying that the Jedi Order from the movie era and Luke Skywalker's New Jedi Order are the most powerful Jedi ever. That makes it G-canon.

However it doesn't say all Jedi and Sith from that era were more powerful or stronger than any from other eras. Logic dictates that they would be more powerful than their predecessors, but I'm sure there are exceptions especially at the insignificant level(i.e Nameless Old Republic Era Jedi Knight versus Jedi Knight Extra You See For Three Seconds in the Prequels).

[quote=BrandonSM;5254090

Not like Revan and Malak where Malak was nowhere near Revan in terms of power but he defeated Revan though cheap strategy that took no thought or skill to conduct.'

.

and sidious need more skill to win his battle with plagueis did he?

and sidious need more skill to win his battle with plagueis did he?

No. There are many reasons he didn't engage Plageuis.

A first reason, off the bat, was the fact that they are undercover and that they were in a Coruscant Hotel and he didn't want to have an epic battle which would unveil his disguise.

2nd: Plageuis already knew it was near his time, in fact he practically admitted that Palpatine was growing more stronger than Plageuis could have imagine in his mind.

This is anecdotal evidence. Malak usurped Revan, but was not stronger than Revan. Sidious usurped Plagueis, and was more powerful (at least as powerful, at the time) as Plagueis.

These do not have to be contradictory. Just because, over 1000 years, the Sith grew stronger than ever before due to the Rule of Two, doesn't mean that every single time an apprentice bested his master, it was because the apprentice was stronger in the Force. That's like saying climate change isn't real because it was colder today than it was this date last year. It's meaningless when there is a trend set in the long term.

There are always outliers in any given data pool. Over 1000 years of the Rule of Two, some master/apprentice cycles inevitably made the Sith weaker, but overall the Sith grew in power over that 1000 years, and it was a faster rise in power than had been seen before. Let's also not forget that Malak was an arrogant, shortsighted fool, who thought control of the Star Forge would make him stronger than his Master. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of the apprentices during the actual Rule of Two period were more patient, willing to learn all their Masters had to teach before turning on them; and also, that their Masters were more discerning when choosing an apprentice in the first place.

-Macheath.

First off, great post. I love reading these, Aurbere!

One thing that I've always thought (I don't know if there are any canon sources to back this up, or if it was just my first impression) is that the PT Jedi were growing complacent after 1000 years of peace. They didn't have anyone who could actual give the Order as a whole a challenge. Usually, when something like this happens, the skills of the group would diminish as their training grew lax.

I guess I always believed that, while the Order itself might be stronger (larger numbers, more time for training), the individual members of the PT Order were less likely to be as skilled in battle as members of the TOR Order because they had far less live combat experience.

I will definitely agree that the PT Order is stronger than the TOR Order, because that is canon. But personally, I disagree with Lucas here. Same with the RoT: I think it would be more likely that some of the Sith Order's members were less powerful than their predecessors, but Lucas decided otherwise, so whatevs

First off, great post. I love reading these, Aurbere!

 

One thing that I've always thought (I don't know if there are any canon sources to back this up, or if it was just my first impression) is that the PT Jedi were growing complacent after 1000 years of peace. They didn't have anyone who could actual give the Order as a whole a challenge. Usually, when something like this happens, the skills of the group would diminish as their training grew lax.

 

I guess I always believed that, while the Order itself might be stronger (larger numbers, more time for training), the individual members of the PT Order were less likely to be as skilled in battle as members of the TOR Order because they had far less live combat experience.

 

I will definitely agree that the PT Order is stronger than the TOR Order, because that is canon. But personally, I disagree with Lucas here. Same with the RoT: I think it would be more likely that some of the Sith Order's members were less powerful than their predecessors, but Lucas decided otherwise, so whatevs

In the RoTS novelization I believe it's Yoda who kind of explains this.

While the Jedi Order was indeed powerful they had constantly trained for the same old wars, using the same time tested methods and had become stagnant; they stood no chance against the Rule of Two Sith because the Sith had constantly evolved, studied the Jedi and Sith methods,history and tactics, grew substantially more powerful in each passing incarnation of the Two and trained and planned to fight in new ways, covert and overt.

I will definitely agree that the PT Order is stronger than the TOR Order, because that is canon. But personally, I disagree with Lucas here. Same with the RoT: I think it would be more likely that some of the Sith Order's members were less powerful than their predecessors, but Lucas decided otherwise, so whatevs

Thats a point, we say that the PT sith are stronger than the TOR sith, but is their any substantial evidence for this? Yes they managed to tear down the republic, but only through deception, while the TOR sith lost before due to backstabbing and infighting. But as Aurbere said, war makes the sith stronger, the PT sith didn't have that, they existed in peace, no passion to give them strength. So wouldn't this in fact weaken them?

Thats a point, we say that the PT sith are stronger than the TOR sith, but is their any substantial evidence for this? Yes they managed to tear down the republic, but only through deception, while the TOR sith lost before due to backstabbing and infighting. But as Aurbere said, war makes the sith stronger, the PT sith didn't have that, they existed in peace, no passion to give them strength. So wouldn't this in fact weaken them?

Thats the reason.

Power isn't always strength, its also wits and genius.

Instead of going in a Full on Battle they tore down the Republic with little bloodshed. And they probably would have lost if they went against The Jedi.

And instead they took down the Republic through the inside out and were the only Sith that had complete control over the galaxy and became one of the greatest Empires or one of the greatest empires.

Sidious did what Vitiate is trying to do, except Sidious did it in about 10-30 years instead of 1400+.

Power isn't always strength.

George Lucas is on record as saying that the Jedi Order from the movie era and Luke Skywalker's New Jedi Order are the most powerful Jedi ever. That makes it G-canon.

 

However it doesn't say all Jedi and Sith from that era were more powerful or stronger than any from other eras. Logic dictates that they would be more powerful than their predecessors, but I'm sure there are exceptions especially at the insignificant level(i.e Nameless Old Republic Era Jedi Knight versus Jedi Knight Extra You See For Three Seconds in the Prequels).

Exactly.

First off, great post. I love reading these, Aurbere!

 

One thing that I've always thought (I don't know if there are any canon sources to back this up, or if it was just my first impression) is that the PT Jedi were growing complacent after 1000 years of peace. They didn't have anyone who could actual give the Order as a whole a challenge. Usually, when something like this happens, the skills of the group would diminish as their training grew lax.

 

I guess I always believed that, while the Order itself might be stronger (larger numbers, more time for training), the individual members of the PT Order were less likely to be as skilled in battle as members of the TOR Order because they had far less live combat experience.

 

I will definitely agree that the PT Order is stronger than the TOR Order, because that is canon. But personally, I disagree with Lucas here. Same with the RoT: I think it would be more likely that some of the Sith Order's members were less powerful than their predecessors, but Lucas decided otherwise, so whatevs

Thank you sir!

Alright so after reading this first wave of posts I decided to make an addendum.

The Rule of Two increased the power of the Sith exponentially. Since the Banite line of Sith remains somewhat mysterious, as do there actions, we can only assume that each subsequent apprentice was more powerful than the master. If not then the Rule of Two would have failed. We know it did not because Darth Sidious became the number one Sith Lord that will ever exist. The Rule of Two created better Sith than any war could have because of the way it was designed. While war and death increase the power of the Dark Side, the Banite Sith would be trained in ways that would increase their natural connection to the Dark Side. Obviously it worked because of Sidious. Yes, i use that argument many times but it is a good argument.

A misconception that the OP did not apparently make clear enough was the fact that times of peace increase the power of the Jedi. War gives them martial skills, but it does not increase their overall power. What we do see is their knowledge of Lightsaber combat increasing, as well as their knowledge of combat tactics. Peace makes a Jedi strong. Connecting with the Light Side of the Force when it is strongest. During the era of peace, the Jedi Order perfected the Lightsaber forms and studied the many mysteries of the Force. What resulted from this era of peace was the greatest collection of Jedi ever seen. Yoda had prepared them for an inevitable confrontation with the old Sith Empire. But he could never prepare them for an enemy that had done the exact same thing he had done. The Banite Sith prepared for a confrontation as well, and they won. Because Yoda had not prepared for something like Sidious, but Sidious was preparing for a fight with him. That's why they lost. That's how Sidious destroyed the Jedi.

Now for the topic of comparing certain members of the PTO to the ORJ. Obviously not every PT Jedi beats every OR Jedi. You can't compare an OR Knight to a PT Padawan. Just like you can't compare a PT master to an OR Knight. It doesn't work that way. Your comparing apples and oranges. What you can do is compare PT and OR masters (or someone equivalent to the master level ie. Anakin Skywalker). And when you do so, PT wins every time. The masters of the PTO are the best.. Second only to the NJO masters, but I believe the PT would give the NJO a run for their money. Without Luke of course. No one compares to Luke.

I hope this answers some questions. If you have any other questions just ask.

And as always. If you have a topic you would like to see in the future, you can post it here or send me a message.

Alright so after reading this first wave of posts I decided to make an addendum.

 

The Rule of Two increased the power of the Sith exponentially. Since the Banite line of Sith remains somewhat mysterious, as do there actions, we can only assume that each subsequent apprentice was more powerful than the master. If not then the Rule of Two would have failed. We know it did not because Darth Sidious became the number one Sith Lord that will ever exist. The Rule of Two created better Sith than any war could have because of the way it was designed. While war and death increase the power of the Dark Side, the Banite Sith would be trained in ways that would increase their natural connection to the Dark Side. Obviously it worked because of Sidious. Yes, i use that argument many times but it is a good argument.

 

A misconception that the OP did not apparently make clear enough was the fact that times of peace increase the power of the Jedi. War gives them martial skills, but it does not increase their overall power. What we do see is their knowledge of Lightsaber combat increasing, as well as their knowledge of combat tactics. Peace makes a Jedi strong. Connecting with the Light Side of the Force when it is strongest. During the era of peace, the Jedi Order perfected the Lightsaber forms and studied the many mysteries of the Force. What resulted from this era of peace was the greatest collection of Jedi ever seen. Yoda had prepared them for an inevitable confrontation with the old Sith Empire. But he could never prepare them for an enemy that had done the exact same thing he had done. The Banite Sith prepared for a confrontation as well, and they won. Because Yoda had not prepared for something like Sidious, but Sidious was preparing for a fight with him. That's why they lost. That's how Sidious destroyed the Jedi.

 

Now for the topic of comparing certain members of the PTO to the ORJ. Obviously not every PT Jedi beats every OR Jedi. You can't compare an OR Knight to a PT Padawan. Just like you can't compare a PT master to an OR Knight. It doesn't work that way. Your comparing apples and oranges. What you can do is compare PT and OR masters (or someone equivalent to the master level ie. Anakin Skywalker). And when you do so, PT wins every time. The masters of the PTO are the best.. Second only to the NJO masters, but I believe the PT would give the NJO a run for their money. Without Luke of course. No one compares to Luke.

 

I hope this answers some questions. If you have any other questions just ask.

 

And as always. If you have a topic you would like to see in the future, you can post it here or send me a message.

Good stuff. On the topic of comparing PTO masters to OR masters, you're almost right. While MOST of those guys are better then MOST of the OR Jedi masters, not all of them. Let's not use absolutes. As Obi-wan would say; "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." People like Coleman Trebor (the guys who got his face shot off by Jango in Ep. 2 lol), Stass Allie, and Kit Fisto couldn't beat people like Satele Shan or Revan.

Good stuff. On the topic of comparing PTO masters to OR masters, you're almost right. While MOST of those guys are better then MOST of the OR Jedi masters, not all of them. Let's not use absolutes. As Obi-wan would say; "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." People like Coleman Trebor (the guys who got his face shot off by Jango in Ep. 2 lol), Stass Allie, and Kit Fisto couldn't beat people like Satele Shan or Revan.

I would agree on Coleman Trebor and Stass Allie(only because I don't know much about her), but Kit Fisto was a very powerful Jedi Master and was a master of the Shii-Cho form to its greatest extent.

I would agree on Coleman Trebor and Stass Allie(only because I don't know much about her), but Kit Fisto was a very powerful Jedi Master and was a master of the Shii-Cho form to its greatest extent.

True, but his lightsaber form wasn't very effective against a single opponent weilding a single lightsaber.

But regardless, we've come to an understanding.

Oh, and here's something I think would be worthy of a thread: Top lightsaber duelists of the Jedi pre-Order 66. This is an interesting subject 'cause I always thought Mace Windu was the best duelist, but appearantly guys like Yoda, Qui-gon Jinn, and Dooku where at the same level. And on top of that, Darth Maul beat Gui-gon in a duel. It's be neat to sort out these guys best to worst.

Mace Windu is one of the greatest duelists ever. A very rare few could ever match or defeat him in a duel. Yoda, Qui-Gon and Count Dooku are some of them.

On the topic of Qui-Gon's death. He didn't die due to lack of skill. He died because of the circumstance. His age and the tight quarters were taken advantage of by the young agile Sith Lord. His form was also not a preferred form for close quarters. Qui-Gon had mastered Ataru form to the extent that he had eliminated the form's weakness to blaster fire. But he was past his prime during that fight. Later in life, Qui-Gon focused more on the philosophy of the Living Force and preparing his apprentice for the Jedi trials.