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Official Turn Ashara Zavros Darkside Thread. (Spoilers)


Chackey

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I don't mind the steady progression IF we had more [Lie] options. I think they really should allow her to be corruptible and I think it's a little ridiculous that the "mast of manipulation" is outdone by a Brute Sith Warrior.
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I don't mind the steady progression IF we had more [Lie] options. I think they really should allow her to be corruptible and I think it's a little ridiculous that the "mast of manipulation" is outdone by a Brute Sith Warrior.

 

Exactly when I played the sith warrior I was upset how many manipulation/deception options the sith warrior gets the sith warrior does the SI job better.

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  • 2 weeks later...
well having read alot of the posts in this thread... some ppl are saying that this is more like a trainride and your left with which seat your sitting in etc... unfortunately having played many of biowares recent games noteably the ME trilogy, DA 1 & 2 this lack of choice in there games which are made saying "you can choose to do what you want" is a bit of a stretch on those words, ashara the only female companion for SL has your choice made for you an its LS (LS sith inquisitor quient idea hardly realistic) but the choices that ppl are starting to see in bioware games is starting to look somewhat hollow... maybe EA's influence i dunno... there seems to be a shocking lack forethought going into some of these games in places that dont need a rocket scientist to say what should be there but anyone who thinks that these things are an isolated incident ... its not biowares recent games are riddled with bad writing
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  • 3 weeks later...

This is ridiculous!

 

Why did you make it so that the SW apprentice can be turned but not the Inquisitors? Horrible, just horrible BioWare.

 

Don't know if you could do anything about this now, unless you re-write and record new dialogue. How could it not have occurred to you that this was nuts!?

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  • 2 weeks later...

This may have been said at some point already but there are a lot of pages to go through in order to check so please bear with me.

 

I too was extremely disappointed by Ashara's outcome (or lack thereof), and I think that the entire storyline of the class and many of the companions are victims of the game not being finished when it was released.

 

However, with that said, as I look back on Ashara's storyline, I see some SERIOUS potential to play the dark side corrupter as the game moves forward with the upcoming and future expansions, namely to events at the end of her story when she talks with the Jedi that have lost faith in the Republic.

 

My hope is that the new expansion will include a method to turn her, even if it is something quick and dirty like making her carry out multiple interrogations under pressure, though I have a distinct lack of faith in Bioware and EA because of the last year or two. I'd love to get something in depth like bonus missions on every class quest to have the option to make her perform increasingly Dark actions, but in the end I'd settle something quick and dirty to just get it done.

Edited by Sivar
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Just throwing my in support that I wish we could turn Ashara darkside as well. However, I'm holding out hope that is a more long-term, relatively speaking, subtle corruption since it does remind me of the whole Anakin/Palptine deal, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread. For all her spouting on about her still being a Jedi, Ashara is supremely self-confident person, bordering on arrogance, which isn't very Jedi-like traditionally. I still have faith that DS Inquisitors are just stringing her along bit by bit, building her up until we have that moment where we can finally turn her. :wea_03:

 

And as fun as turning Jaesa was, it was kind of a brute force turning the Sith Warrior put Jaesa through, if that makes any sense. There wasn't much subtlety to it. :p

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I do agree I would like to play with her without sacrificing my LS/DS score. She should be able to be turned if she indeed can't be. However, it should be very difficult, or time consuming. Subtle, slow. Palpatine didn't reveal who he really was to Annakin until he thought he had twisted him, worked him over well enough. It's not that it's easier to turn Jaessa it's just that (as much as I actually like her personally) she was "rushed", sloppily or lazily written I feel. Especially considering that you spend your whole first act of SW hunting her, her old teacher, and her PARENTS down. Even if you go light side and try to spare them, you are still hunting her down. And at the drop of a hat she just jumps into being dark side and killing her master. I've not gone the LS approach to SW yet, so I don't know what LS Jaessa is really like, only you can't romance her. :rak_frown: Which is why for the most part I actually like the SI story a fair bit more then the SW's. But as was said in a earlier post, time will tell. Edited by GarrickBlackSun
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So while trying to raise Ashara's affection today (which is a pain btw since my SI is a female), I saw this interesting quote by when randomly clicked on her.

 

"Passion, peace. Strength, knowledge. Power, serenity. Victory, harmony. Freedom, the Force."

 

I got a real "Grey Jedi" vibe when I heard that. Any thoughts?

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I may be the only one to get this feeling but just because Ashara doesn't change into homicidal maniac, doesn't mean she isn't being corrupted. As I remember, was a long time ago so I might be wrong, after joining the inquisitor she tries to hold to the light side, but is slowly spiraling down to becoming a sith, she questions the jedi code and their actions, she always try to justifie her actions but is always doing inquisitors biding, so without even knowing it, she becomes more corrupt (or not, depends on the inquisitors action) without even knowing it, she only thinks that she is still good and pure (at least to some point in the male inq storyline khe khe...<starts humming the Imperial March> ). For me it is much more subtle than what SW does, and in the end Ashara will have no other way than just to face the truth, that she became corrupt and there is nothing more that she can do.

But as I stated in the beginning, I played the story long ago, and it might just be my head canon talking.

 

nuff said

Edited by Elmerpl
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See the thing is, from what I remember of her, is her affection for you is contingent on her believing that you are going to make big changes within the Empire. So, yeah she does sorta turn away from her Jedi code but she's under the impression that you will turn the Empire good. This is all fine and dandy if you are a LS Inq but for me it just didn't work. It's all based on a lie. Yes of course, there are certainly manipulations and lies along the way when it comes to turning and corrupting, but in the end truths are usually revealed and accepted if they are truly corrupted. The convo's where she did seem to question the Jedi code/teaching I felt was only because she was starting to believe the Empire could do a better job of protecting the people, a more efficient way of spreading 'good'. I know I'm oversimplifying this because I'm trying to avoid a wall of text and lots of spoilers.

 

And little things like when she says "don't make me go against my Jedi teachings". I don't want to hear that from her anymore if she is truly corrupted or 100% on board with me. I want to hear "you add fire to my rage master" or something to that effect. :p

 

I still firmly believe we should have gotten Thana Vesh on Taris instead of Ashara as our melee dps companion and male romance option.

Edited by Ridickilis
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Just throwing this in here... As the "masters of manipulation" we NEED to be able to corrupt Ashara.

 

Bioware, get it done. Xpac is Spring.

 

If your definition of corruption is turning her to darkside, then I would say we need NOT to do that as master of manipulation. It is far more craftier to keep her as is.

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Although i havent got Her yet. And as i've been reading this thread i've been skipping what spoilers i can (Please use spoiler tags!) I have turned Jaesa and honestly, I hated how it was done. It was just kinda. Bam, She's darkside now.

 

I wish what happened was what I've read about Ashara, You get her as your apprentice, She starts of Light (and this is what should happen for both of them) Eventuall turns dark by doing dark deeds.

 

Say you have to interrogate someone, You elect Jaesa/Ashara to do it. Being the 'fallen jedi' they are, they Hesitate, You 'force' them to do it. once they use their methods, you get a response like "That felt.... Good". You could then make it deeper by having the player channel those feelings into the Companion, making them feel good. Much like how Darth Baras feels 'every sensation', you could sit back and feel those sensations, and sutbley channel them, making your companion feel them aswell, Turning them that little bit more dark side.

 

There also should be Darkside/Light side companion missions. You send your apprentice off to deal with a rebellion. Telling him/her to either deal with it peacefully or diplomatically (light side) Or Slaughter them all (Dark Side). This can be done with every compainion and much how Players get to go darkside/light side, Companions get it too. This of course changes they way they react to player light side and dark side choices based on their lightside or darkside points.

 

I admit, implementing that is A LOT of work. But how about an expansion based purely on companions? Fixing all the companion bugs and adding new features. That's summin i'd pay $20 for :)

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I admit, implementing that is A LOT of work. But how about an expansion based purely on companions? Fixing all the companion bugs and adding new features. That's summin i'd pay $20 for :)

 

+1138 to you, sir, although the other classes do not seem to have this kind of problem. Many even can CHOOSE who to flirt with, so it ain't that much to fix in this sphere, actually. I can't help but remember the good old KotOR 2, which I consider the absolute BENCHMARK of companion interaction - there was no shutting them up! And they really followed you on whatever path you chose, so the situation we're seeing here is just embarrassing.

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  • 1 month later...

Ugggh... you know it sucks that I didn't find this thread until it became an issue. Spoiler contains, yes... spoilers. So don't read if you don't want some of the story exposed.

 

 

 

First off, I don't know if it was possible, but I WAS 100% dark side choices until I met Ashara. I was FORCED, i.e. shoehorned, into making a choice I didn't want to make, and it was light side. The entire conversation I avoided light side choices and just went neutral, then at the end I'm forced to make a Light Side choice? That's bullcrap if I ever saw it. Poor dialog design to begin with.

 

Then as far as the dialog itself is concerned... the entire story with her, doing the research about her being prideful and turning her to the dark side... WASN'T EVEN IN THE OPTIONS!!! Again, what a piss-poor story design. It's like you get amped to turn a Jedi and then it goes off on a tangent about releasing the ghost and you killing her masters, with no option to do what you wanted to... which was to turn her to the dark side using her flaws. Crap story, period.

 

 

I read that there was some type of extra, bonus or achievement for making 100% dark side choices. Now that is entirely shot for me.. very, very, VERY upset about this.

 

What really gets my goat about all this, is the poor dialog selection options. Half the time what you see as a dialog choice isn't even what your character says and honestly is an extremely poor design choice. Either the options need to be more exact, or there needs to be a more defined option as in:

  • sarcastic response
  • apathetic response
  • empathetic response
  • rude response
  • nice response
  • etc etc

 

That way you at least have SOME idea of how you want to shape your conversation.... but the Ashara Zavros options... terrible terrible terrible. Very angry... HULK SMASH!!!

 

The thing is, there was another conversation on Taris where I was almost shoehorned into making a light side decision... I think it was when you had to do a "force persuade" to tell the Assassins to go away... That's equally BS. I think there were two neutral options and one light side (the force persuade). So, to kill them you don't even get dark side points? That's bogus as well. Terrible dialog and story design.

 

I'm highly upset that now I have a Sith that was SHOEHORNED by Bioware to have light side points. That is everything that goes against a ROLE PLAYING game. You're given dialog choices that are ambiguous at best and then you're shoehorned into making choices that don't make sense at all. THAT is not allowing the person to ROLE PLAY and defeats the purpose of being a RPG.

 

Did anyone else experience something different? Where the dialog did not end in having to make light side choices? Does SWTOR support offer to reset quest lines if there IS a different option? I'm actually so frustrated by this that I want to stop playing altogether... You spend time trying to build up a character only to be forced to make a choices that don't fit your path... not at all what I consider role playing or fun.

Edited by sniperdoc
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  • 2 weeks later...

I still wonder why they stuck us with a lightside JEDI.

 

Man I wish I could just corrupt her darth malak style slap her to a board and shock her until she falls cause right now she is a crafting mule and xalek? He is a bloody block.

 

On both my SI its always been me and khem from 1-50. >_>

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  • 3 weeks later...
there are far enough dark side companions available to inquisitors

 

It's not about how many lightside or darkside companions we have, it's the fact that she is our only female LI. That's simply absurd. But that said, light side comps and LIs are a must for the LS Inquisitors.

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If your definition of corruption is turning her to darkside, then I would say we need NOT to do that as master of manipulation. It is far more craftier to keep her as is.

 

This is like saying "You know what the best way to manipulate is? Not manipulate, they'll never see it coming!"

Absolutely ridiculous. :rolleyes:

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This is like saying "You know what the best way to manipulate is? Not manipulate, they'll never see it coming!"

Absolutely ridiculous. :rolleyes:

 

Problem with that statement is you equal manipulation to turning her to dark side.

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