Lately, I have been noticing something quite peculiar with Denova and I wanted to share my feelings on the subject and ask for opinions. After attempting Denova HM with a lvl55 PuG group (how hard could it be, we were all wearing a mix of 72/78 gear), I was somewhat surprised that we couldn't brute force our way through the operation with superior gear and couldn't get past Stormcaller and Firebrand because people didn't understand what to do. This had me thinking and after a bit of research and advertising on the fleet, I came to realize that Denova is the most neglected operation in the game. Really, nobody, ever does Denova anymore because there is no reason to do so.

 

It appears to me that Denova fills a very strange niche on the Ops palette right now. It is a level 50 operation but it is significantly harder than either Eternity Vault or Karagga's Palace. It is PuG friendly enough to be doable for the average group on story mode but its rewards for the quest are not significant enough for most people to warrant an attempt. Classic Comms are much more easily (and faster) obtained from EV and KP, considering that EV can be finished in 35-40 minutes even on Nightmare Mode. Because it drops now obsolete 50 gear, there is no reason to run EC Story Mode.

 

Meanwhile EC HM (while contributes to the Ops weekly) is simply too hard for the average PuG group. This level 50 operation will kill level 55 people in Dread Forged and Oriconian stuff if they don't do the mechanics correctly. The skill check is as punishing as it was before the level cap raise (even more in some aspect, since too much DPS can cause problems too on Zorn and Toth and Firebrand and Stormcaller), so most groups never attempt to PuG it in HM. Why would they, anyway, when they can finish Eternity Vault or Karagga HM in 40 minutes and get the weekly? The Aratech Nightscythe and the Praxon bloodline were the biggest incentive for people to run EC HM but the widespread availability of much cooler looking speeders from the Cartel Market of similar model and color means nobody wants the Nightscythe and the Bloodline anymore. And it drops obsolete gear as well, so again, no reason to run EC Hard Mode. (Even the rare crystals it used to drop are purchasable on the GTN now.)

 

I think Denova HM is too difficult for the average PuG groups, so they don't run it. But its rewards are too insignificant for level 55s, so they don't run it either. In fact, so few people run Denova that plenty of people don't even know it exists. I watched the Ops chat on the fleet for many nights but I have yet to see someone trying to put together a group for Denova.

 

So, I would like to recommend streamlining Denova (especially Hard Mode) to bring it in line with the rest of the Operations of the game. Either:

 

A. Nerf the bosses in HM to the level of the EV and KP HM bosses, so people will actually consider doing Denova for the Classic Ops weekly.

B. Make Denova a level 55 Operation with a difficulty in line with Terror from Beyond and Scum and Villainy and give it its own weekly of Elite and Ultimate comms, so people will actually consider doing it.

 

I really like Denova, so please, anything you could do to make it more popular would be appreciated!

Edited November 11, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

You realize this op has already been nerfed more and more like 10 times right? People need this op to learn what a mechanic is, and if they are having trouble here they will have more trouble in the newer ops. I'm tired of seeing people complaining about things being "too hard" and how it needs to be nerfed to the ground so that groups can storm through it. You have EV to get your gimme comms, the ONLY thing about EC that causes problems is the mechanics. We 4 manned hm up to kephess last week with ease, no nerf is needed. Edited November 11, 2013 by TrillOG-

I would much prefer option B. The only thing I would nerf in this operation is the trash. I know it actually changed a little recently, but the trash was always some of the most annoying parts of this op. The trenches between the tanks and the minefield especially just feel like a huge slog.

 

I think a huge part of it is a lot of 55s honestly just got plain sick of it. As you said the fights were a noticeable mechanics upgrade over the previous two ops. That being said, I wouldn't mind going back in at all for ultimate comms, though since there are fewer bosses I'd like to see HM drop 7-8 comms per boss instead of 6. Making it 55, and having it drop 72 gear in HM and 75 gear in NiM, and finally clearing out a huge chunk of the trash, especially in the trenches, and I think you'd see a lot more traffic in there.

Edited November 11, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

While I'd agree a change of some kind would be nice to draw folks into this operation again, as I LOVE this operation and the boss fights but have a hard time finding a group. I even have a hard time finding guildmates willing to go do because even decked out in mostly 72 gear the mechanics require you to be spot on.

 

This is a good thing, keeps people from being lazy in operations (which I've noticed is happening A LOT lately), but at the same time it also deters people from playing as it requires more time and effort than a majority of players have available to them. I'm starting to see the same sort of thing happen with DF and DP, just on SM. The fights are mechanic heavy and require you practice the fights a few times to really get to know them. AND, you have to have a group of players who are willing to do the same or have done it already enough to know it well. Its causing the same amount disinterest in doing them.

I also really like Explosive Conflict, and wish it was run more. However, I do not want to see it nerfed. So if I had to pick one of your solutions, it would be Option B.

 

Y'know what I do to help make it more popular? If I have a few hours free on a weekend and I'm feeling particularly sadistic, I will join a EC HM pug group and help them through it. It has seriously taken me at least three hours each run, both pugging with mostly guild groups and groups that consists entirely of pugs. But, at least afterwards there are seven more people on the server with an idea of how to finish the operation... Even if some of them end up on my ignore list for being near complete idiots.

You realize this op has already been nerfed more and more like 10 times right? People need this op to learn what a mechanic is, and if they are having trouble here they will have more trouble in the newer ops. I'm tired of seeing people complaining about things being "too hard" and how it needs to be nerfed to the ground so that groups can storm through it. You have EV to get your gimme comms, the ONLY thing about EC that causes problems is the mechanics. We 4 manned hm up to kephess last week with ease, no nerf is needed.

 

In addition: STOP ASKING FOR NERFS! CEASE AND DESIST! NO MORE NERFS TO NPCS!

Buff this Operation to level 55!

 

It is the Best Operation in game.

 

Nightmare Kephess was a trip, unlike the joke he became in TfB & beyond.

I would love to get the operation to get buffed to level 55, F&S + Kephess in Explosive Conflict is some of the most challenging PvE content today (expect for some bosses in Nightmare TFB and S&V). I mean even today there are a lot of guilds doing this content on level 55 and failing hard since they are not able to handle the mechanics, even thought most of them are in full 69/72 gear as well as having over 50% more HP then for example I had when I progressed thought Denova Nightmare it back in they days.

 

Denova Nightmare is a skill check and I really like to keep it that way, if you are not good enough for Nightmare or even Hardmode, go do story mode.

People like this operation because it is challenging. It is different. Nerf it and there will be one less reason to run it. people find it hard because they don't know how to play it, and brute force is never a solution. The rewards for HM could be increased, other than that L2P

Stop asking them to change old content.

 

There are literally dozens of threads in this subforum filled with dumb posts like this. These posts are dumb because they're asking for devs to waste their time with old content rather than creating new content.

 

If you're going to sit here and tell me you'd rather have old content than new content, I don't even know what to say to you. Go play a wow private server or something, Tempest Keep is calling (and is way harder than any iteration of EC even when it was current).

Stop asking them to change old content.

 

There are literally dozens of threads in this subforum filled with dumb posts like this. These posts are dumb because they're asking for devs to waste their time with old content rather than creating new content.

 

If you're going to sit here and tell me you'd rather have old content than new content, I don't even know what to say to you. Go play a wow private server or something, Tempest Keep is calling (and is way harder than any iteration of EC even when it was current).

 

I agree that new content is better, however, it is much quicker for them to simply scale EC up to 55 then to make an entire new operation. For a lot of people, it will be new content anyways since no one runs it anymore. I would also be ok with scaling it up to 55 and making it a solo operation with three companions, but that would take a lot more work probably.

I agree that new content is better, however, it is much quicker for them to simply scale EC up to 55 then to make an entire new operation. For a lot of people, it will be new content anyways since no one runs it anymore. I would also be ok with scaling it up to 55 and making it a solo operation with three companions, but that would take a lot more work probably.

 

I don't care how simple it might be, and I have extreme doubt that it's as simple as you think. It is a complete waste of time and energy for them to spend an iota of effort on this.

Personally, I'd like it if Denova was scaled up to lvl 55 to make it a more commonly run operation.

 

Regarding the false dichotomy of old content vs. new content: both are required to make a solid game that will last and keep holding the attention of the player base. My raid team of lvl 55's has enjoyed running Denova Nightmare Mode in the past just because the tight mechanics are a nice challenge. It's fun to see how well we can work together as a team when we're up against something that cannot simply be outgeared.

 

But then recently when we got to the final boss and found it to be badly bugged (3 Trandoshan waves spawning within 10 seconds of eachother) no one was in the mood to try it again since the gear drops were pointless for our level. There just wasn't enough reward for all our time spent when ultimately our efforts were pointless due to a bug.

 

My point here is that I would appreciate it if the Developers didn't let the older operations rot and fall into obscurity. Scaling Denova up to 55 so it was actually worth running would fix that problem.

Denova is a great example of how operations should be. Mechanics requiring coordination and some level of competence to clear it. Everyone basically has to do their job and do it well. It was even more challenging than it is today due to DPS / healing checks which you can simply out gear In a few days time.

 

I'm not sorry PUG groups can't do it. They lack the coordination and teamwork necessary to get through it. Also, your average idiot who can't follow instructions is hopeless in the operation. While those who are guildless potentially miss out on it, nerfing it into being brute forced through gear as you say would change it in a negative way and it wouldn't be the awesome operation that it is.

 

I do agree that the loot tables need to be updated to make it relevant again. At this point the only reasons to do it is for leveling characters between 50 and 55 or for the mounts it drops. It also is needed to get your Aratech Nightscythe. Once you have the mounts and hit the level cap it loses it's appeal.

 

But one could easily argue that having it and running it for the above purposes is enough and that BioWare should concentrate on entirely new operations.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Spamfritter

Regarding the false dichotomy of old content vs. new content: both are required to make a solid game that will last and keep holding the attention of the player base. My raid team of lvl 55's has enjoyed running Denova Nightmare Mode in the past just because the tight mechanics are a nice challenge. It's fun to see how well we can work together as a team when we're up against something that cannot simply be outgeared

 

Level 55 nightmare ops are not able to be outgeared currently. Do those if you want a challenge, they're relevant.

 

This is not a false dilemma. Man hours are limited, new content keeps people playing more than old.

Denova is by far my favorite op, and this would be an awesome thing to do. I think it would actually be cool to make it into a flashpoint along with others possibly for the next level cap raise, but I doubt that would happen.

Removing at least half of trash mobs should be the first step. It's not like other Ops don't have trash, but Denova is a never ending stream of it. In large, long doses, between every boss.

All wrong. Nothing but potentially the loot tables needs to change in EC. Those don't really need to change if BioWare wants to keep it positioned as content for 50-55's who are just leveling through that range and need XP and gear for things like your Oricon dailies and to get into 55 HM's.

 

The only places BioWare needs to prune the trash mobs are Corellia and Makeb.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Spamfritter

The developers should leave the old content alone. I don't want to see EC bumped to 55 because they will do that and then hold off on releasing a new operation. This operation has now been out for a long time an some of us have done it to death. The only thing I would like changed is for them to remove all of the trash, because the best thing about the new operations is the fact that there's almost no trash.

 

I think this occupies the "Hey, we're all bored and all our lockouts are used. Lets do an EC Nightmare run" niche and I think it should stay that way.

Loved EC, don't touch it. As far as raising it to 55, not worth the time invested to make it so unfortunately.

 

Go play a wow private server or something, Tempest Keep is calling (and is way harder than any iteration of EC even when it was current).

 

Is the most laugh out loud funny thing so far in this thread. Lets leave WoW and its raiding elsewhere. In a land far far away.

The only places BioWare needs to prune the trash mobs are Corellia and Makeb.

And they don't need to prune half of trash from EC because... it's fun to go through it 3 times longer than actual boss fights?

I did a fast run with my guild this week and dude it went just as fast as EC/KP does now when there is almost no adds to kill, don't know what you guys are complaining about, we had five people that had never done it but we explained from them and we had one guy that died, once. The death occurred at Kephess when the new tank was slow at taunting so the second tank took much burst damage, but that was the only death we had, and the run didn't take long at all.

 

Sometimes I wonder if you guys just want to have a auto-complete button for all missions and get insta best in slot gear for all your chars and companions

And they don't need to prune half of trash from EC because... it's fun to go through it 3 times longer than actual boss fights?

 

You can avoid half the trash by not aggroing them (if you're 55 it's fairly easy, though it wasn't that tough at 50 either).

As for why there's trash: basically it's a 4 boss Operation so getting Warstalker would be too easy if there were only 4 bosses and no trash.

Personally, I think that I have a harder time avoiding packs with the new positions that they have gotten then it was back pre 2.0, but then it took longer to clear packs. Now you can, if you fail, pull like two-three at the same time and just AoE them down while healers wont have any issue with tanks incoming damage. But yea, the packs changed positions has made them harder to avoid, but at the same time there is far less packs and they are far easier as you are lvl 55.

Instead of nerfing it or scaling it, they should just put in a new weekly that requires completion of all three lvl 50 ops. The rewards would have to be worth it, say 24 ultimates along with either 69 gear or a 72 enhancement that's BoE (and I'm talking adept here, none of this efficient BS like the makeb weekly has). More people running it, near zero effort.