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PvP Balancing.


phatell's Avatar


phatell
02.22.2021 , 01:08 PM | #1
I find it to be a disgrace that pvp is as unbalanced now as it was 9 years ago. Is this due to sheer neglect or lack of effort?

Having 2 classes dominate the rest on the pvp stage, some having self heals while others have none etc. I see more and more people leaving the pvp scene out of pure frustration that no balancing between the classes are ever made. Do you consider it legitimate that people will need to make specific characters for pvp as some classes just are obsolete in comparison to others? Should not all classes be able to provide equal pvp experience instead of 1-2 of them being vastly superior to the rest (Smuggler & Operative) / (Guardian & Juggernaut)?

If there is no intention to do anything about these issues then atleast a clear warning should be placed in the character creation section to let people know which classes are most suited for pvp and which one’s aint.

It’s about time something is done about this before you lose your entire pvp playerbase.

DragonSire's Avatar


DragonSire
02.22.2021 , 01:27 PM | #2
While I agree there are ways to improve PVP you are never going to have a situation where all toons of different classes are equal. NEVER. Ranged/Melee/AOE heals...There are always going to be advantages and disadvantages to every class.

So what do you suggest to fix the issues you feel are present that also doesn't unbalance PVE group content? Separate gear? Separate PVP stats? Completely different builds in PVP? Cause they have inherent flaws also.
"Reality is Boring"

phatell's Avatar


phatell
02.22.2021 , 01:45 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by DragonSire View Post
While I agree there are ways to improve PVP you are never going to have a situation where all toons of different classes are equal. NEVER. Ranged/Melee/AOE heals...There are always going to be advantages and disadvantages to every class.

So what do you suggest to fix the issues you feel are present that also doesn't unbalance PVE group content? Separate gear? Separate PVP stats? Completely different builds in PVP? Cause they have inherent flaws also.
Some classes having 4 self heals while others having 1 or none? Some being able to hit 60k damage in 1 strike while others barely crit into the 20s. The changes needed are quite obvious and should not impact pve more than it has in other games that made these adjustments.

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
02.22.2021 , 02:30 PM | #4
Overall, balance is bad for sure, but i doubt that leaving it to BW and only BW would lead to a better outcome. They haven't exactly be the smartest in the past when it comes to balance decisions. I'm kinda tempted to dive back into it and propose them some balance changes, but at this point we've gone so far down the strange things that you'd need to rework both set bonuses and how classes/specs work as well, as each change you will do will definitely affect PvE on the side, which we don't want to break as well.
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nellolello's Avatar


nellolello
02.22.2021 , 02:34 PM | #5
Pvp balancing, the most started thread in any mmo since forever...yawn. You have to be more precise about what you want to be done or this just seem like a babyrage thread. If you are a someone with good knowledge about the game and the classes why dont you give some advices on changes then.
From ToFN to TRE to DM to R.I.P Swtor

phatell's Avatar


phatell
02.22.2021 , 02:58 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by nellolello View Post
Pvp balancing, the most started thread in any mmo since forever...yawn. You have to be more precise about what you want to be done or this just seem like a babyrage thread. If you are a someone with good knowledge about the game and the classes why dont you give some advices on changes then.
It’s blatantly obvious at this stage, but i will humor you, besides im a founder.

With that sorted, as mentioned, some classes having self heals and shields to drown in, others do not, this does not affect pve as pve is by standard based on raid/group situations where tanks and healers eliminate the need for dps to have self heals/shields. Not completely obviously but the pve triangle “tank,dps,healer” limits the usefulness of these aspects.

As for the rest, *Yoda mode on* asking for a complete rehaul we are not *Yoda mode off*. Once again, seeing how subject A can, with equal skill of Subject B and C, completely dominate them both at the same time due to sheer imbalance in damage and class based imbalance. This is not a simple matter to solve but a slight polish might be due?

DragonSire's Avatar


DragonSire
02.22.2021 , 03:29 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by phatell View Post
It’s blatantly obvious at this stage, but i will humor you, besides im a founder.

With that sorted, as mentioned, some classes having self heals and shields to drown in, others do not, this does not affect pve as pve is by standard based on raid/group situations where tanks and healers eliminate the need for dps to have self heals/shields. Not completely obviously but the pve triangle “tank,dps,healer” limits the usefulness of these aspects.

As for the rest, *Yoda mode on* asking for a complete rehaul we are not *Yoda mode off*. Once again, seeing how subject A can, with equal skill of Subject B and C, completely dominate them both at the same time due to sheer imbalance in damage and class based imbalance. This is not a simple matter to solve but a slight polish might be due?
Yes but PVE is also not just group/Raid...there is solo also. How do you make a HEALER as effective in PVP without overpowering them in PVE as an example. It's not simple, and it's why as others have said MMOs have struggled with this because when you have different classes there is never truly going to be balance, someone always has the advantage..and generally as MMO devs fight to balance PVP the more unbalanced PVE becomes or you get drastic approaches like separate gear, abilities working different in PVP etc.

So if you can give specifics changes for DEVs to consider...maybe they will....who knows.
"Reality is Boring"

nellolello's Avatar


nellolello
02.22.2021 , 03:49 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by phatell View Post
It’s blatantly obvious at this stage, but i will humor you, besides im a founder.

With that sorted, as mentioned, some classes having self heals and shields to drown in, others do not, this does not affect pve as pve is by standard based on raid/group situations where tanks and healers eliminate the need for dps to have self heals/shields. Not completely obviously but the pve triangle “tank,dps,healer” limits the usefulness of these aspects.

As for the rest, *Yoda mode on* asking for a complete rehaul we are not *Yoda mode off*. Once again, seeing how subject A can, with equal skill of Subject B and C, completely dominate them both at the same time due to sheer imbalance in damage and class based imbalance. This is not a simple matter to solve but a slight polish might be due?
Yes of course it needs polishing on certain specs and classes. As long as the game is running it will need balance patches. You should still come up with ideas like "How about giving juggs 30% DR for 6s after they intercede" "Any damage a jugg do during Endure Pain is stolen". (meme examples)

I doubt any dev is actually good at pvp so feeding them non-biased ideas is probably the best way.
From ToFN to TRE to DM to R.I.P Swtor

Skillztbh's Avatar


Skillztbh
02.22.2021 , 08:15 PM | #9
PvP Balance overall is pretty good in this game. Every class has strengths and weaknesses and not a single class is "unplayable" or "overpowered" in both ranked and regs (apart from jugg tanks). Some classes perform better overall and/or in certain situations than others but it's literally impossible to fix that problem in an MMO. There are very few "obvious" balance issues that come to mind at the moment - examples would be Grit Teeth Tac and Forcebound set for Jugg tanks and EP set/Powerload Tac for PT dps.
Ez

TmoneyTime's Avatar


TmoneyTime
02.22.2021 , 09:13 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Skillztbh View Post
PvP Balance overall is pretty good in this game. Every class has strengths and weaknesses and not a single class is "unplayable" or "overpowered" in both ranked and regs (apart from jugg tanks). Some classes perform better overall and/or in certain situations than others but it's literally impossible to fix that problem in an MMO. There are very few "obvious" balance issues that come to mind at the moment - examples would be Grit Teeth Tac and Forcebound set for Jugg tanks and EP set/Powerload Tac for PT dps.
Ummmmm..... Are we playing the same game..... most classes only have 1 viable spec. Please explain how balanced the following are Madness vs Lighting or Ani vs Fury...... PT tank vs Jug..... OP dps vs Sin dps..... We have strictly better specs/classes right now.