What the title said.

 

So, I took up my PT after a long while. DPS wise I find I'm pretty comfortable with it but defensives are utterly horrendous, they really dont make any difference in PvP. And no, heavy armor doesn't compensate.

 

 

 

• Shoulder Cannon heal is behind utility point and its still isn't very effective. Quickly looking at it, its total heal amount for APs is 21% which is farcry from Warzone Medpack. Also, it only heals upon hit, has short range and is susceptible against tech resists, meaning no damage and no heal. And of course, its an active ability, needed to be spammed, but if you spam, you risk not having it when you need to prevent a cap or plant.
  

 

• Energy shield, 25% damage reduction for 12 seconds. Its ok, or would be if not for the long CD it has. APPTs can benefit far more for it because CD reduction on hit, which actually make it viable.
  

 

• Instead of that fancy skill, Pyros get damage and CD reduction for their Kolto Overload, which is nice, if not for the fact that it still activates at 35% HP, which is at the range of other classes execution abilities. And the heal you get from it is not nearly enough to prevent death by burst, not even for Pyros. Even mercs on their superior KO can be brought down, not easy but can be done.
  

 

 

What would I suggest? Well, with utilities and buffs from Discipline paths hardly make them viable in any situation, why not just add them to the base ability.

 

Hell, guildie suggested that even if PTs/Vang had Responsive Safeguards (Merc/Cmd "Oh ****" -button), it still wouldnt make the class overpowered in PvP.

 

 

This is not an angry rant from even angrier Powertech. I play several classes, most of them I find fun. This a friendly suggestion to fix some of the PTs problems.

 

What I do like about the class? Well, rotation is neat and the fact that so few are playing this class (especially in WZs) so playing one makes me feel kinda unique.

 

Cheerio.

Edited July 8, 2017 by FinnBin

What the title said.

 

So, I took up my PT after a long while. DPS wise I find I'm pretty comfortable with it but defensives are utterly horrendous, they really dont make any difference in PvP. And no, heavy armor doesn't compensate.

 

 

 

• Shoulder Cannon heal is behind utility point and its still isn't very effective. Quickly looking at it, its total heal amount for APs is 21% which is farcry from Warzone Medpack. Also, it only heals upon hit, has short range and is susceptible against tech resists, meaning no damage and no heal. And of course, its an active ability, needed to be spammed, but if you spam, you risk not having it when you need to prevent a cap or plant.
  

 

• Energy shield, 25% damage reduction for 12 seconds. Its ok, or would be if not for the long CD it has. APPTs can benefit far more for it because CD reduction on hit, which actually make it viable.
  

 

• Instead of that fancy skill, Pyros get damage and CD reduction for their Kolto Overload, which is nice, if not for the fact that it still activates at 35% HP, which is at the range of other classes execution abilities. And the heal you get from it is not nearly enough to prevent death by burst, not even for Pyros. Even mercs on their superior KO can be brought down, not easy but can be done.
  

 

 

What would I suggest? Well, with utilities and buffs from Discipline paths hardly make them viable in any situation, why not just add them to the base ability.

 

Hell, guildie suggested that even if PTs/Vang had Responsive Safeguards (Merc/Cmd "Oh ****" -button), it still wouldnt make the class overpowered in PvP.

 

 

This is not an angry rant from even angrier Powertech. I play several classes, most of them I find fun. This a friendly suggestion to fix some of the PTs problems.

 

What I do like about the class? Well, rotation is neat and the fact that so few are playing this class (especially in WZs) so playing one makes me feel kinda unique.

 

Cheerio.

 

Currently dps pt is THE SQUISHIEST DPS CLASS IN THE GAME. Do you think that all these nerfs will make it normal as it was at 4.0? I mean they are finally nerfing mercs, snipers which were the main sources of pt dying in a few seconds or it wont change much? I am interested of starting playing as a pt but it looks so damn squishy and iam not sure that all these nerfs will help.

There has been far too many times in a wz when felt like if I just had one of the utilities that was buffed for mercs my class would be balanced. I say nerfed version Trauma regulators and a 50% kolto overload would do the trick Edited July 8, 2017 by tavrinDosa

There has been far too many times in a wz when felt like if I just had one of the utilities that was buffed for mercs my class would be balanced. I say nerfed version Trauma regulators and a 50% kolto overload would do the trick

 

While I agree that PTs are in need of some defensive improvements, transferring merc God DCDs to PTs is imo not an acceptable means of improving the defensive situation of any DPS spec. No DPS spec should have DCDs like that, not even PTs. Defensive improvements can be attaining by the addition of DCDs in the manner in which Juggs and Marauders have them and get by with, both with less healing than PTs, on some with no healing at all.

 

A nerfed version of Trauma regulators, might be more reasonable, but that would be guess work at best and unless BW is in a position to make quick changes to defensive's, I don't relish the idea of adding another class to the list of overtuned DCDs in PVP. The DPS nerfs to some of those classes are going to be of limited effect in PVP as the DCDS that cause them to overperform are going to be exactly as they always were and Mercs and Snipers are going to be just as difficult as ever to take down. Snipers will still be dancing and laughing around melee and mercs will still be face tanking everything just as effectively as ever. We don't need more such offenders at present. PT is a melee DPS class, it should have DCDs like other melee classes do.

First of all, with the recent change the Commando/Mercenary (1 new cooldown, 1 steroid to adrenaline rush/KOverload)

Vanguard/Powertech is now 1 cooldown behind every class.

to make things worse, guard/Ptech, suffered the loss of Full Auto, Explosive Round, Sticky Grenade. Only getting 1 skill in return, which is less damage than sticky grenade, and less range than explosive round.

 

We're losing skills like a hole in a pocket and it's NOT funny.

It's one thing to have skills with "questionable designs" to a melee class because their ranged, by why remove them completely.

But what hurts most, is knowing other classes, especially our counterpart Commando/Mercenary, is gaining new skills out of nowhere.

That is some Dark Sith right there!

Edited July 9, 2017 by Bonzenaattori

First of all, with the recent change the Commando/Mercenary (1 new cooldown, 1 steroid to adrenaline rush/KOverload)

Vanguard/Powertech is now 1 cooldown behind every class.

to make things worse, guard/Ptech, suffered the loss of Full Auto, Explosive Round, Sticky Grenade. Only getting 1 skill in return, which is less damage than sticky grenade, and less range than explosive round.

 

We're losing skills like a hole in a pocket and it's NOT funny.

It's one thing to have skills with "questionable designs" to a melee class because their ranged, by why remove them completely.

But what hurts most, is knowing other classes, especially our counterpart Commando/Mercenary, is gaining new skills out of nowhere.

That is some Dark Sith right there!

 

Well, I wouldn't blame mrcs/cmds. It was high time they got their defensives boosts, for being under nerf-hammer almost from launch. What they got was simply bit much. In damage department they were always ok. What I don't understand why devs are bringing their damage down, when it was their defensives that needed fine tuning. But I digress.

 

Powertechs, however, need a serious fix up in either their damage or survival. If it must be class cannon, then at least give it significant dps boost for the loss of survival.

It's no argument that advanced prototype is one of the easiest rotations in the game. So what about dmg mitigation that occurs in the rotation and not in big in your face dcd's, so for example staking energy nodes also increases dmg reduction? Or maybe you either spend the nodes on either energy blast or a new ability that increases dmg reduction further or makes our shield stronger. Or maybe a procd railshot debuffs the enemy's dmg potential. There is something about marauder or juggernaut where other than enraged defense, they have a fair consistent amount of dmg mitigation that isn't overwhelming to me. I never feel like i'm going to burst them down in 1 rotation but i also don't feel like its a daunting task to kill them. Thats what i wan't for powertechs especially if Bioware considers them melee range.

It's a lot more than 1 defensive behind other classes. Let's compare DPS PT's active defensives with, say, marauder, who it shares that 4-10m range with.

 

 

 

Powertech

 

Shields (25% DR)

 

Advanced Prototype:

Kolto (8 secs of meh healing up to 35%)

Sonic missile (30% resist chance.)

 

Pyro:

Kolto (8 secs of meh healing up to 35% with 30% DR for the duration)

 

Marauder

 

Saber Ward (50% Ranged/Melee Defense, 25% Tech/Force DR)

Undying Rage (99% damage reduction for 4 seconds)

Obfuscate (90% Ranged/melee accuracy debuff on a single target for six seconds.)

Cloak of Pain (20% DR for for 6 seconds but is refreshed when hit, up to a maximum of 30 seconds).

Predation (Increases melee/ranged defense by 10%)

 

Just comparing these two, an AP spec PT's damage resistance is completely outclassed both in potency and duration by a BASE Marauder's.

 

 

Nearly every other class simply has more tools to mitigate incoming damage than a PT does. Hydraulic overrides for kiting? Great, except you can't really kite because you need to be 10m range to deal damage while defending yourself. Considering every melee spec has several 10m abilities, and trying to float between 4 and 10 meters is nigh impossible with latency, you basically still have to sit and eat that melee damage.

 

 

Ultimately, what boils down to PT's survivability issues is that it's DCD's were created in a time were mobility was it's strength and what really made it thrive. Now, it's a 4-10m class just like Maras, Jugs, Sins, and Operatives but everyone else has just as much if not more mobility, meaning that survivability advantage is moot.

 

So now Powertech is stuck trying to be a genuine melee class but without the defensives to keep in that 4-10m range and stay there.

Marauder

 

Saber Ward (50% Ranged/Melee Defense, 25% Tech/Force DR)

Undying Rage (99% damage reduction for 4 seconds)

Obfuscate (90% Ranged/melee accuracy debuff on a single target for six seconds.)

Cloak of Pain (20% DR for for 6 seconds but is refreshed when hit, up to a maximum of 30 seconds).

Predation (Increases melee/ranged defense by 10%)

 

Firstly I wouldn't consider Obfuscate a defensive cooldown.

Calling it a DCD is like saying Slow or Electro net (hinder) on a ranged class can be classified as a defensive cooldown so long has they're smart enough to kite

But for all intents and purposes. Let's place Force Camo there, as the effect gives you stun immunity + 50% damage reduction and movement speed increase, not to mention the stealth. Which can be used as defensive cooldown in some places, especially in pve where effects like aoes can be mitigated to nothing in combination with defensive rolls etc etc.

 

I compared it with Commando for a reason. It's the closest thing to a fair comparison you'll ever get.

There wasn't a single DCD vanguard/powertech had that seperated them from Mando/Merc, they all had the same pattern, especially with de-aggro ability giving a spec unique effect.

Merc = absorb force/tech (kinda like spell dodging but more charges)

PT = defensive rating increase

both had energy shield, both had overload, and both had hydralics (if you'd even consider it a defensive cooldown but its on both classes so... yeah). In fact the only thing that made them unique was the spec effects

 

In any other sense, i think its only fair to compare it to another Tank/DPS class

 

Tank specifically

shadows have deflection, battle readiness, stealth and shroud /w tank spec giving them DR on battle readiness and absorb steroid on potency

Guardians have saber ward, enure, Focused defense and reflect /w tank spec giving them warding call + defense rating stacking fiesta

Vanguards have energy shield (lowest DR value out of all 3 tank classes), combat focus (lowest defense chance rating out of all 3 tank classes), kolto overload (2nd lowest heal out of the tanks and spazzed thanks to commando), and riot gas nerfed. Thank you bioware

 

Yeah, being a vanguard tank... lot of fun

 

Ultimately, what boils down to PT's survivability issues is that it's DCD's were created in a time were mobility was it's strength and what really made it thrive. Now, it's a 4-10m class just like Maras, Jugs, Sins, and Operatives but everyone else has just as much if not more mobility, meaning that survivability advantage is moot.

 

This pretty much I'm 100% behind you on for sure

the fact that we lost a lot of 30m joy kind of made the idea of using survivability even more paramout. which, we got nothing for. Yay!

Edited July 10, 2017 by Bonzenaattori

It's no argument that advanced prototype is one of the easiest rotations in the game. So what about dmg mitigation that occurs in the rotation and not in big in your face dcd's, so for example staking energy nodes also increases dmg reduction? Or maybe you either spend the nodes on either energy blast or a new ability that increases dmg reduction further or makes our shield stronger. Or maybe a procd railshot debuffs the enemy's dmg potential. There is something about marauder or juggernaut where other than enraged defense, they have a fair consistent amount of dmg mitigation that isn't overwhelming to me. I never feel like i'm going to burst them down in 1 rotation but i also don't feel like its a daunting task to kill them. Thats what i wan't for powertechs especially if Bioware considers them melee range.

 

Marauder's don't have enraged defense. Marauder's don't have any base DCD that gives them health back.

AP doesn't lack hitting power! They still have some sick burst. Defensively they may have issue, but they hit just fine, I have the scars to prove it! =p

It's a lot more than 1 defensive behind other classes. Let's compare DPS PT's active defensives with, say, marauder, who it shares that 4-10m range with.

 

 

 

Powertech

 

Shields (25% DR)

 

Advanced Prototype:

Kolto (8 secs of meh healing up to 35%)

Sonic missile (30% resist chance.)

 

Pyro:

Kolto (8 secs of meh healing up to 35% with 30% DR for the duration)

 

Marauder

 

Saber Ward (50% Ranged/Melee Defense, 25% Tech/Force DR)

Undying Rage (99% damage reduction for 4 seconds)

Obfuscate (90% Ranged/melee accuracy debuff on a single target for six seconds.)

Cloak of Pain (20% DR for for 6 seconds but is refreshed when hit, up to a maximum of 30 seconds).

Predation (Increases melee/ranged defense by 10%)

 

Just comparing these two, an AP spec PT's damage resistance is completely outclassed both in potency and duration by a BASE Marauder's.

 

 

Nearly every other class simply has more tools to mitigate incoming damage than a PT does. Hydraulic overrides for kiting? Great, except you can't really kite because you need to be 10m range to deal damage while defending yourself. Considering every melee spec has several 10m abilities, and trying to float between 4 and 10 meters is nigh impossible with latency, you basically still have to sit and eat that melee damage.

 

 

Ultimately, what boils down to PT's survivability issues is that it's DCD's were created in a time were mobility was it's strength and what really made it thrive. Now, it's a 4-10m class just like Maras, Jugs, Sins, and Operatives but everyone else has just as much if not more mobility, meaning that survivability advantage is moot.

 

So now Powertech is stuck trying to be a genuine melee class but without the defensives to keep in that 4-10m range and stay there.

 

You are right, Marauder's certainly have the greater DCDs, no question, but you will note by looking at your own listing of the DCDs, they also don't have any self heals which PT does [making Gyroscopic Alignment Jets more valued for PVP given the amount of CC that get's thrown around]

 

Powertech's should have some more DCD additon in line with other melee specs if they are to remain a purely melee dps spec themselves, for those specs that they have that are DPS.

 

You are however not taking into consideration some of AP's passive defenses.

 

Stabilized Armor, which reduces damage taken from area effects by 30%. Additionally, while stunned, you take 30% less damage from all sources, which is quite nice and very useful in PVP, where both AOE and CC are thrown around in great amounts.

 

Sonic Defense - Activating Sonic Missile increases your defense chance by 30% for 6 seconds.

 

Infrared Sensors - Increases your melee and ranged defense chance by 3% and your stealth detection level by 3.

 

Energy Rebounder - When you take damage, the active cooldown of Energy Shield is reduced by 3 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds. In addition, when taking damage, you have a 20% chance to emit an Energy Redoubt, which absorbs a low amount of damage and lasts for 6 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.

 

Close and Personal Increases the duration of Energy Shield by 3 seconds. In addition, suffering direct damage from area attacks heals you for 2.5% of your total health. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

 

I'm afraid I can't agree with your comparison of PT being akin to "4-10m class just like Maras, Juggs", that is not a fair representation of their current state. While certainly more limited in in it's ranged than it once was, it is not to the level of Marauder or Jugg, and has options that can even allow it to exceed Assassin's ranged attacks potentially. AP PT has a 30' attack, thermal detonator, which far exceeds any ranged attack a Marauder or a Jugg is capable of and it has a spammable basic attack at 30' which means it is literally constantly able to attack at range at all times. While admittedly the damage isn't very good, the fact that they have a spammable 30' ranged attack precludes them from being classed within the same spectrum of tradtional mDPS classes. The only "attack" option generally available to Marauders and Juggs at 30' is a gap closer, which, has a minimum range requirement in addition to a maximum ranged requirement and is far from spammable.

 

It has some utility choices that make their ranged options far greater than many melee specs, most notably Pressure Overrides allowing allowing Flame Burst, Magnetic Blast, Searing Wave, Firestorm, Shatter Slug, Deadly Onslaught, Heat Blast, Energy Burst, Immolate, and Scorch to be used at 30 meters for 15 seconds. That is quite a bit more ranged than Marauders and Juggs can come close to.

 

You might consider taking the Bracer Propellant utility as it Increases the range of Flame Burst and Magnetic Blast by 2 meters and the radius of Flame Sweep by 1 meter as well.

 

"Kiting" option improvements through utilities to go along with the added ranged options are plentiful. Pneumatic Boots increses movement by 15% while in combat which would help with kiting considerably in PVP where you are mostly in "combat" state, and Iron will and Torque Boosters helps some with that as well. Also Overdrive is nice, allowing Hydraulic Overrides to increase movement speed by an additional 45% while active. Battering Ram increasing movement speed by 30% for 6 seconds as well.

 

AP also offers a good deal with regard to group utility which is something to consider as well{Energy Rebounders and 30% AoE/Stun damage reduction,Sundered and Susceptible debuffs}.

 

It also has a considerably strong CC kit with utility choices that can augment it quite a bit.[ i.e. Mutilating Shards,Enhanced Paralytics, Suppressive Tools, Accelerated Reel, Adaptable Assailant,Reel and Rattle.

 

While granted it cannot hope to obtain all of these utility choices at once, they nonetheless remain options that if consolidated can effect great strides into their ranged, movement, CC kit augmentation.

 

It's important to consider some of the options, even passively, that they do have that do not really appear in more tradtional mDPS specs. Clearly they can use some defensive improvement, but it should be in a melee dps vain. Melee DPS shouldn't have base DCDs that effect heals as part of their design. Id argue even ranged DPS shouldn't, but, at least currently their is more precedent for that.

 

Making fair arguments against ranged DPS DCDs that have such strong heal aspects to them does not lend well to their credibility if that similar DCDs are than suggested for mDPS specs.

 

Quite honestly, if it's wrong for ranged, it's wrong for melee.

 

DCDs of that nature are more appropriate to healer and tank spanks IMO.

 

PTs should have DCDs similar to other melee classes, despite their greater ranged options. The addition of a DCD or two like Marauders/Juggs have seems appropriate for PTs.

 

P.S. While some disagree, I do not consider Force Camouflage a DCD in the same vien as the others. You cannot use it while engaged in combat and maintain it's effects. It is certainly useful as an escape which is has it's own definite value in and of itself, and it useful for mitigating certain environmental damage [lava, fire pit, acid pit, etc] but for use while fighting, it is has no value. In PVP, it's more or less an escape. It's not even a valuable threat drop, as it is only a threat reduction and will not stop a boss you have grabbed agro from from attacking you immediately and not at all should you continue to attack. It is, however, an excellent escape. This is, of course, just a personal opinion based on my experience.

Edited July 10, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

snip

 

Stop. I've played this class for five years on four different servers. all of that is great *on paper* because PT is actually well-designed when taken by itself. Where it falters is when you compare it to the other AC's. Every single other AC has more options to keep itself alive.

 

The class cannot keep up defensively against the other classes.

Kolto can be burst through by a single player. I do it every day on my PT, to other PT's. 3% heal from shoulder cannon *on hit* from a LEGENDARY utility is absolutely laughable.

 

1. I didn't include passive for the Mara either. Note I said "Active abilities". Every class has passives. Include the Mara passives too, if you want to make that argument.

2. You cannot kite a jug or mara effectively.

The *only* way you can kite is by preventing yourself from doing the majority of your rotation.

2. You need to be capable of getting within 4m of your target to do your rotation(yes, you need to use retractable blade and rocket punch or you're *********** bad), and everything else besides one ability is 10m. 2m from bracer propellant is absolute trash, and you're a bad PT if you take it. Thermal Det is 30m, so is saber throw.

3. All the utilities to take to buff hydraulic overrides is kind of the damn problem. You have to take THREE utilities from THREE different tiers just to make it as good as Predation is with ONE utility. Powertech utilites are garbage.

4. I never even mentioned force camouflage. Everything I listed was an active CD the player can use to directly mitigate incoming damage.

 

This is a non-argument. I've got seven (don't play sorc) of the AC's that I've played since 5.0 dropped. PT has far and away the lowest survivability besides possibly Sorc DPS. I will run circles around the best Powertech in a 1v1 with my sniper, merc(lol), jug, or mara. Op and Sin are similar, though require a higher degree of finesse.

 

You clearly did not read my post very clearly.

Edited July 11, 2017 by KainrycKarr

Historically PT survivability relied on 2 things:

 

1) Kiting melee by snare + HO. This is heavily dependent on HO being available and being able to consistently hit out of 10 meter range.

2) Being able to out dps and out survive ranged. Again, HO and higher than 10 meter range where integral to maintain up time.

 

Going from 1.0 - 3.0 PT (at least AP which was previously pyro) mobility plus range were PT primary mode of game play. It began to break down in 4.0, but 5.0 was the final nail in the coffin. HO lost much effectiveness due to the longer CD. The leap for PT dps means very little, it is nothing more than interrupt against Merc and sorc. This hurt PT suvivability against melee since you will be stuck slug in it out against far more survivable classes. On the other hand, both merc and sniper gained substantial survivability (and mobility for snipers), which made fighting them a futile effort.

 

Then 5.0 added more survivability to all classes except jug (which was fairly strong, just okay now) and sorc dps. On top of that AP has lost on damage (no point talking about pyro). Not substantially, but enough that it is now surpassed by Fury, Carnage, Rage and Dec in the melee burst department. PT suvivability was nerfed by lower SC heal from 5% to 3% and KO from 40% - 35%.

 

Nerfing the range and mobility radically changed the class. The DCDs PT dps currently have were designed for ranged, highly mobile, high damage class. None of these adjectives hold true now. Something radical has to change, and honestly, PT skills, damage and suvivability where designed for medium/long range dps. Absent major changes to PT class design or range and mobility nothing will matter.

Firstly I wouldn't consider Obfuscate a defensive cooldown.

I guess he meant the 75% force/tech damage reduction you can get by choosing the right utility?

 

You are right, Marauder's certainly have the greater DCDs, no question, but you will note by looking at your own listing of the DCDs, they also don't have any self heals which PT does [making Gyroscopic Alignment Jets more valued for PVP given the amount of CC that get's thrown around]

Sure, let's discuss if the 3% HPs recovered by an upgraded Shoulder Cannon is more a 'heal' than to recover health on every attack that consumes rage via Thirst for Rage.. let's then discuss whether 4x 3% every 180s is more efficicent than 1% every other attack. And let us discuss which class should be considered more a "true DPS" class, the one that has a spec centered around heals or a class that has no heal-centric spec.

 

Oh and we could then also discuss whether a skill that tries to keep you at 35% HP is more powerful than a skill that absorbs 99% of the damage... and we can then add this to the discussion which class should be considered or is supposed to be a 'glass cannon' or a "true DPS" class. But more about that below.

 

Stabilized Armor, which reduces damage taken from area effects by 30%. Additionally, while stunned, you take 30% less damage from all sources, which is quite nice and very useful in PVP, where both AOE and CC are thrown around in great amounts.

Now it's really silly. First, the 30% stun DR has a 4s duration in most situations. And not every CC is a stun. So it's just as silly as referring to the 100% defense while using Mad Dash every 35s? Second, Marauders can choose the masterful utility Defensive Roll to get a 30% AoE DR as well and unlike the Powertech variant, it's not limited to a single spec.

 

Infrared Sensors - Increases your melee and ranged defense chance by 3% and your stealth detection level by 3.

Ah, now we're down to 3% DR effects to prove a point. Well, let's see... what about up to 6% DR via Frenzied Sabers (Carnage) plus the 2% DR via Force Vigor - both not just against melee/ranged attacks. Or what about Furious Defense (Fury) that grants +10% defense for 6s every 9s. Or what about the constant 3% DR via Shii-Cho Form or the 5% DR via Blood Guard (Annihilation)?

 

"Kiting" option improvements through utilities to go along with the added ranged options are plentiful. Pneumatic Boots increses movement by 15% while in combat which would help with kiting considerably in PVP where you are mostly in "combat" state, and Iron will and Torque Boosters helps some with that as well. Also Overdrive is nice, allowing Hydraulic Overrides to increase movement speed by an additional 45% while active. Battering Ram increasing movement speed by 30% for 6 seconds as well.

Ok, first of all, a 15% speed boost is essentially useless if you wish to kite or counter a kite. There are way better options that slow a target by 30%, 50% or even more. Second, contrary to Hydraulic Override, Predation starts with a 50% speed boost for 10s which can them be improved to 80% as well. Oh and it even grants +10% melee/ranged defense for 10s.

 

And whereas the Powertech gets a speed boost after a charge, the Marauder is able to leap a second time.

 

Sundered and Susceptible debuffs.

How is this different to a 'beat down' (all three Marauder specs), an 'assailable' (Annihilation), a 'sundered' (carnage) or an 'overwhelmed' (fury) debuff?

 

It also has a considerably strong CC kit with utility choices that can augment it quite a bit. i.e. Mutilating Shards, Enhanced Paralytics, Suppressive Tools, Accelerated Reel, Adaptable Assailant,Reel and Rattle.

Which is the same with: Overwhelm, Interceptor, Subjugation and Maiming Reach.

 

AP PT has a 30' attack, thermal detonator, which far exceeds any ranged attack a Marauder or a Jugg is capable of and it has a spammable basic attack at 30' which means it is literally constantly able to attack at range at all times.

Well, although this statement is actually holds some value, it's still worth pointing out that all the Marauders have Twin-Saber Throw, a 30m line AoE that takes 18s to cool down. So I wouldn't point fingers on Thermal Detonator, a skill that has a delayed effect (which is probably the reason why BioWare kept the 30m range).

 

Melee DPS shouldn't have base DCDs that effect heals as part of their design. Id argue even ranged DPS shouldn't, but, at least currently their is more precedent for that.

Which is just a stale argument.

 

Ok, let's replace the 8s Kolto Overload that does nothing above 35% HP with a 4~6s Undying Rage that grants 99% DR, just because the former implies a constant 'heal' rather than a complete absorb. Let's then replace the Close-&-Personal passive with either a 3% elemental/internal DR or a Cloak of Pain and let's see how many Powertechs would be complaining.

 

Personally, I would prefer a 99% DR over a 70% Kolto Overload anytime. But I'm not the one claiming a fluctuating health bar makes a class less a DPS class than taking no damage at all. Oh and please send me a vid where you see the Close-&-Personal heals, because according to you it's something completely different than damage reduction!

 

To sum it up

 

Powertechs are in a severe need for a massive defensive buff. First of all, they are missing a powerful DCD that reduces the incoming damage by a high percentual amount in order to be useful both in PvE to survive deadly attacks (orbs, etc.) or in PvP to survive a gank.

 

Second, they are lacking a second 'hard' DCD that achieves at least 50% damage reduction or that grants a powerful protection against a specific type of damage. This can either be achieved by improving existing passives (like Sonic Defense or Coolant to 50%) or by introducing new ones.

 

Third, they need a 'lose interest - switch target' skill, i.e. either an escape, a damage reflect or an overly protective skill that makes opponent focusing a different class. This doesn't necessarily have to be a separate skill on it's own, but there has to be a way to handle unfavorable conditions.

Edited July 12, 2017 by realleaftea

Snip.

 

I'm not exactly sure why you are stating it like I am saying that can't use another DCD, clearly they can. They should get another DCD. It just shouldn't be one of the merc DCDs.

 

But please don't say that PT has less heal potential than Marauders, that's just stupid.

 

A self heal is, you push a button you get health back. If there are other people involved, that means it;s not a self heal. You may get health back, but that is not a self heal.

 

In order for a mara using thirst to get the kick back it necessitates getting hurt. You are not going to be in melle distance of an opponent and not take damage and you are going to take a shyt load more damage than the kickback, you are not going to see your health bar go up. If a mara gets rooted, and he has some cheese merc blasting him up from 30' away, it's useless, and you cannot get a kick back. But you, as a PT have options that no one else has to be bashing your face in to help you. I am not saying PTs are swell, but they have more self heals.

 

Same circumstance as about, cept your a PT now. Can you get health back? Yes. Does that mean they dont need another DCD? Of course it doesn't mean that.

 

But let's be honest here, PTs are not operating like Marauders. You have unreasonable amount of ranged attacks for a melee DPS class. I firmly believe PTs need another good, non-merc like DCD like other melee DPS specs have. I don't think it's unreasonable to say they shouldn't get merc DCDs when we have all seen that problems they have caused and no DPS spec, no matter how garbage it is should get h2fs. Not Mercs, Not Juggs, Not maras, not assys, and not PTs. An extra life is unreasonable, period.

 

If you want all the same things maras and juggs have, stop acting like a semi ranged class than, because, you cannot tell me having all those 30' attack options doesn't matter. You can call PTs a mDPS class all you like, but, I think they should start acting like it. Whether or not they do that, I still think they need another DCD.

 

If you want all the marauder dcds which, without a healer will not keep you alive for long in PVP, loss the ability to spam a 30' attack. Loss a potentially 40' attack, lose 15 seconds of 9 attacks at 30' ranged. If you want to keep those things, than no, you shouldn't have all the same DCDs because you are not operating under the same constraints that Marauders and Juggs are.

 

I think we can agree that PT DPS is not in the least bit an issue, so that aside, so what you are really saying here is, instread of getting a reasonable DCD like Juggs and Maras have, you want a H2F, as a "melee" class, that has more ranged potential than any other mDPS class in the game, and not by a little, by a lot. You want to be able to face tank as a melee DPS

 

I'll trade Undying Rage for a h2f any day of the week,

 

4 seconds of 99% DR on a three minute cool down, or a whole second life passively? I'll take the second life, not really though, because it's an unreasonable DCD for a DPS to have. Ill gladly take the merc reflect, because not only does it last longer, it will give me health back and lets face it, with all the idiots running around, it is seldom short of a h2f as well.

 

The ability to gain health back all on your own, without someone having to be ripping your face off at the same time, that matters in PVP.

 

You want everything. If they are going to be a mDPS class they shouldn't get all that extra ranged, and if you are not going to do that, that you do not deserve more than one new DCD.

 

With their insane CC kit [who has a AOE hardstun on a 45 second cooldown , a 4 second stun on electro dart, utility options adding to it with things like Efficient Suit 40' pull that immobilzes you and also allows you to use kolto while stunned and also purges the stun at the same time, shatter slug that is a 75% slow, ,Suppressive Tools which makes Magnetic Blast, Flame Burst and Flame Sweep reduce the movement speed of affected targets by 25% for 3 seconds. Additionally, Neural Dart slows the target by 50% for 6 seconds,and rattle and real which adds a stun effect to some attacks]

 

 

Also they Two reflects, and an absorb.

 

They have 4 offensive cooldowns, they have great group utility and they have more mobility than many other mDPS specs if specced appropriately. They can also skank tank.

 

They're greater range potential is unsurpassed by other mDPS is relative.

 

I would suggest a DCD added to PT the likes of which has a Saberward like effect and an escape if necessary.

 

You have to take everything into account, if you are going to try and deal with class balancing. Merc DCDs make it impossible to do that with regard to DPS specs. A second life is unreasonable for any DPS spec unless other DPS specs get some themselves. If an enemy only needs to kill you once, and you have to kill them twice, you have just created an imbalance and not a small one at that.

Wait am I reading this and seeing that people want to be as good as guardian dps DCDs? Haha haha oh wait I'm sorry you're being serious...

 

The self heal is really more of a half heal generally speaking. Ward we share with maras, granted it is a good DCD. The fake health is next to useless without a pocket healer. Reflect is quite good, yes. But many classes have reflects now, so its hardly unique to us. Need I go on?

 

I do admit PT is in a spot DCD wise. But seriously wish bigger than being as good as the second or third most trounced on class.

Wait am I reading this and seeing that people want to be as good as guardian dps DCDs? Haha haha oh wait I'm sorry you're being serious...

 

The self heal is really more of a half heal generally speaking. Ward we share with maras, granted it is a good DCD. The fake health is next to useless without a pocket healer. Reflect is quite good, yes. But many classes have reflects now, so its hardly unique to us. Need I go on?

 

I do admit PT is in a spot DCD wise. But seriously wish bigger than being as good as the second or third most trounced on class.

 

think before you post. juggs and maras have very balanced dcds for their classes, pt's do not. thats the point of the post, no sorc whining here just facts.

But let's be honest here, PTs are not operating like Marauders. You have unreasonable amount of ranged attacks for a melee DPS class.

 

Not necessarily picking on you WayOfTheWarriorx. PT is NOT a melee dps. It is not designed to be a melee dps and it surely does not operate as one. The root of all current PT problems are that someone in BW decided in 4.0 to turn PT to be more melee, without adjusting anything but range. That f**ked everything over. Then BW completely ignored PT in 5.0 till recent pyro buff. The buff it self is not bad, it just won't turn the worst discipline in the game to be competitive. Pyro in particular has significant issue in every area.

 

In any case, if anything the recent patch of changes indicate that BW does no monitoring and makes changes based on dummy parses and QQ. So, good luck getting anything fixed.

with all the problems dcd's are causing(ie merc) I rather not have a new dcd(for tactics/ap that is) and just double down on the dmg.

 

-rail shot back to 30m. flame sweep no longer triggers accelerator.

-blood trackers bonus of 3% against blooding targets up to 8-10%. rail shot no longer refreshes bleed.

- particle accelerator can trigger ever 4-5 seconds instead of 6 OR revert it back to how it originally was. with magnetic blast having a 45% chance and rocket punch having a 60% chance to reset the rail shot.

 

ap/original pyrotech paid for its big spike with low def. give or take i feel thats where we should get back to.

 

for pyro i would look to improve raw mitigation in flame suit and insulated mats to put pyro armor values(as in armor only) somewhere in between shield tech and ap. so 10-15% to armor and dot protection and 10% to internal and elemental damage. pyro shield being exclusive to pyro also needs to be considered.

 

this would be my attempt at a quick fix but like others have said the problems are bigger then that. we lost too many moves and the devs dont look like they know where they want to take the class. shoulder cannon in particular needs to be redesigned. i mean how does searing wave(another bad change) NOT spread dots, ffs it doesnt even apply dots.

 

i been back for about a month and i still cant get over just how much they gave merc.

think before you post. juggs and maras have very balanced dcds for their classes, pt's do not. thats the point of the post, no sorc whining here just facts.

Guardians very balanced DCDs in DPS spec? Sorry as someone who has been regularly playing a vigi guardian in pvp for a while now, we're second or third only to possibly pt/VG and sage/sorc.

 

Go read the guardIan forums on their experiences in ranked and how bad it sucks. I can tell you stories from 4v4 before I started only running with a guildie healer (that just got nerf hammered thanks ) that are almost terrifying. One of the main reasons people run skanks in pvp is because guardian is an awesome tank class for pvp (indeed a good tank class in general), and a squishy as crap dps one. (The other reason of course is the uselessness of tank gear/stats).

 

The reason I stopped pvp tanking is because pretty much I got pissy/bitter about them giving guards to dps and making those of us who actually tank even more irrelevent (yes I know I'm exaggerating a wee bit here as a good tank can still make a difference far more than a squishy dps with a guard but still the point stands).

 

For pve I'm never without a healer even if I am dpsing the heal is a much more guaranteed thing, and the fake health actually works to give the healers some borrowed time. So it's not a problem really. For pvp the fake heal is practically a joke and the self heal isn't far behind. Honestly since I started dpsing in pvp I feel less like a "guardian" and more like a wannabee sentinel without its toys. But the tank "irrelevence" still bugs me more.

 

I never dps on my vanguard (though he is my second favorite tank class, shadow requires a bit too much micromanaging for my preferences though I can play all the tanks to some degree), but they do seem to be shafted in the DCD department. On the tank side of the house I believe that to be because they seem to have a bit greater passive defensive, but still are the squishiest tank by quite a margin. Also most boss fights are far more prone to dying to spike damage and not sustained damage, thus the rise of the more cooldown based classes.

 

Hopefully this longer post proves that I do indeed think and have a reason for my opinion even if we disagree.

Guys, i fear that devs are not even thinking about doing something with pt's defense :/ no one is playing for this class anymore, it's nearly dead. The squishiest class in the game both in ranked and unranked

Such a shame, we really need some more ranged options or some better defensive options for Pt's. If they would just make railshot and maybe shatter slug 30m and buffed the utility for magnetic blast to 15m I think Pt's would already be a lot better again. Either that or we need some defensive tools, because as it is Pt's need to get in the thick of it to do any effective damage and they don't have the defensive tools to do so

railshot at 30m is just so obviously needed.

 

If you want all the same things maras and juggs have, stop acting like a semi ranged class than, because, you cannot tell me having all those 30' attack options doesn't matter. You can call PTs a mDPS class all you like, but, I think they should start acting like it. Whether or not they do that, I still think they need another DCD.

 

If you want all the marauder dcds which, without a healer will not keep you alive for long in PVP, loss the ability to spam a 30' attack. Loss a potentially 40' attack, lose 15 seconds of 9 attacks at 30' ranged. If you want to keep those things, than no, you shouldn't have all the same DCDs because you are not operating under the same constraints that Marauders and Juggs are.

 

It is this statement that makes me very confident that you don't play PT. You do realize that using the utility to extend our range to 30' for that "spammable" attack will deplete our resources extremely quickly by forcing us out of our rotation and also prevents us from using 3 of our core abilities at that range (which are all higher damage)? You say we have 30' attack options - in reality we have a 30' resource sink that every PT will tell you is absolutely useless in PvP or PvE. The massive hit to DPS and resources does not justify taking the utility.

 

I do agree with you that the best balance update for the game would be to move DPS away from self heals - however I have zero confidence that that will ever happen. Pragmatically, it is not too much to ask for a defensive buff to our self heal and shield.

 

And let's look at it subjectively: what is the class that get's insta-focussed in PvP? Have you ever had problems focusing that class down? I main VG and I can tell you that PTs are by far the easiest to kill, 248-geared or otherwise. Sure, maybe you got popped by a PT/VG a couple times, but that's almost certainly not in a 1v1 when you had an equal number of CDs available. PT/VG cannot meaningfully contribute to ranked PvP - period. We need a fix, and we need it now.

It is this statement that makes me very confident that you don't play PT. You do realize that using the utility to extend our range to 30' for that "spammable" attack will deplete our resources extremely quickly by forcing us out of our rotation and also prevents us from using 3 of our core abilities at that range (which are all higher damage)? You say we have 30' attack options - in reality we have a 30' resource sink that every PT will tell you is absolutely useless in PvP or PvE. The massive hit to DPS and resources does not justify taking the utility.

 

I do agree with you that the best balance update for the game would be to move DPS away from self heals - however I have zero confidence that that will ever happen. Pragmatically, it is not too much to ask for a defensive buff to our self heal and shield.

 

And let's look at it subjectively: what is the class that get's insta-focussed in PvP? Have you ever had problems focusing that class down? I main VG and I can tell you that PTs are by far the easiest to kill, 248-geared or otherwise. Sure, maybe you got popped by a PT/VG a couple times, but that's almost certainly not in a 1v1 when you had an equal number of CDs available. PT/VG cannot meaningfully contribute to ranked PvP - period. We need a fix, and we need it now.

 

I don't think there is any question of a need for defensive improvement for PTs, I think that's understood, the only question is in the manner of that defensive improvement.

 

For the Tanks, they can have Merc DCDs, they are not as inappropriate for a tank as they are for DPS. But for the DPS specs, they should have DCDs in line with other melee DPS specs, which is why I suggested something along the lines of Saberward in it's effects.

 

The merc DCDs are inappropriate for any DPS spec of any class in my opinion.