Something tells me that she is the real threat here. Even seems that Arcann tries to keep her placated.

 

I think she's scheming, or biding her time. She is just waiting for him to be killed so she can take the throne. Also, she reminds me of DS Jaesa.

 

What does anyone else think? Any theories?

Vaylin has shown little to no interest in claiming the throne. She wants to kill Zakuul's enemies and spread her wings farther than Valkorian would ever allow were he alive. That being said, I think she's loyal to her siblings. She shared Arcann's regret that Thexan couldn't be there to rule with them together, and seems to enjoy working 'under' Arcann as long as she gets to do what she does best. Vaylin does not come across as a schemer, more of a paranoid juggernaut the likes of which no one other than Senya seems to be capable of handling. Bioware would really need to sell her evolution into this ultra scheming genius after nine chapters of "I kill my own underlings because odd numbers suck." and mindless violence.

Vaylin has shown little to no interest in claiming the throne. She wants to kill Zakuul's enemies and spread her wings farther than Valkorian would ever allow were he alive. That being said, I think she's loyal to her siblings. She shared Arcann's regret that Thexan couldn't be there to rule with them together, and seems to enjoy working 'under' Arcann as long as she gets to do what she does best. Vaylin does not come across as a schemer, more of a paranoid juggernaut the likes of which no one other than Senya seems to be capable of handling. Bioware would really need to sell her evolution into this ultra scheming genius after nine chapters of "I kill my own underlings because odd numbers suck." and mindless violence.

That is another part I was going to add that I had forgotten about!

Why include how Vaylin "trusts no one"? Including not trusting Arcann, if SHE is the "ultimate villain" who cannot be trusted? Why bother having trust issues? And why bother emphasizing that fact? It seems an odd thing to have such caution and paranoia when she shouldn't care, with all her power.

In the absence of trust, fear rules. Or so I've heard.

So where did it come from?

If it means nothing, then all it establishes is that she is paranoid and there is no basis nor impact at all on the plot from it. Which makes it seem pointless to point out.

That is another part I was going to add that I had forgotten about!

 

Why include how Vaylin "trusts no one"? Including not trusting Arcann, if SHE is the "ultimate villain" who cannot be trusted? Why bother having trust issues? And why bother emphasizing that fact? It seems an odd thing to have such caution and paranoia when she shouldn't care, with all her power.

 

In the absence of trust, fear rules. Or so I've heard.

 

So where did it come from?

 

If it means nothing, then all it establishes is that she is paranoid and there is no basis nor impact at all on the plot from it. Which makes it seem pointless to point out.

I think it may be that Vaylin was never allowed to be herself. Her power brought fear; rather than teach her to control her power and use it with a greater purpose, Valkorian was preoccupied elsewhere. Only with Senya's pleading did he actually pay his daughter any attention, and in spite of calling her his favorite he had chosen to place a barricade to keep her true power contained. This may or may not be the cause of her being less than stable. Her mother tried to manipulate her into leaving, which Vaylin considered a weakness. Valkorian bound her power, which is why she may have harbored ill will towards him all this time, but never enough to openly challenge him for the throne like Arcann. Like I said, I think the last thing Vaylin cares about is ruling, she just wants to be free, feared, and respected.

Arcann and Thexan are likely the only ones who never tried to coax her into doing something she didn't want to do, and that's why the only amount of 'trust' she has with anyone is Arcann, who is letting her exercise her power as she sees fit so long as she gets the job done. He was quick to cover up her tantrum with the reactor in Chapter III (I think that was the one, anyway...), and is allowed to execute her own Knights when she sees fit.

Deep down, she may suspect Arcann will try something against her eventually, because everyone else in her family has tried to control her, whether it be her power or her purpose. However, it's also just as likely that she's hoping that her brother will be different.

Bioware can either take this somewhere excellent, or somewhere even more cliche. I'm hoping the former, because I really want to think of Vaylin as more than the crazy juggernaut she is.

I hope so too, so far she been most interesting character in this expansion for me.

Speaking of her training btw, do you think someone trained/teached her or is she self learned?

I hope so too, so far she been most interesting character in this expansion for me.

 

Speaking of her training btw, do you think someone trained/teached her or is she self learned?

Vaylin lacks discipline and based on dialogue from Senya, Valkorian had almost nothing to do with training her. She was so out of control that he just restricted her power outright. I think Senya might have tried to do what she could because it's clear she loves her children even if they despised everything about her. However, Vaylin's disdain may have made teaching her impossible. I think it's fair to assume her gifts were natural and she learned the extent of it herself. She lacks patience. Yoda would throw a fit with this girl xD

Vaylin has shown little to no interest in claiming the throne. She wants to kill Zakuul's enemies and spread her wings farther than Valkorian would ever allow were he alive. That being said, I think she's loyal to her siblings. She shared Arcann's regret that Thexan couldn't be there to rule with them together, and seems to enjoy working 'under' Arcann as long as she gets to do what she does best. Vaylin does not come across as a schemer, more of a paranoid juggernaut the likes of which no one other than Senya seems to be capable of handling. Bioware would really need to sell her evolution into this ultra scheming genius after nine chapters of "I kill my own underlings because odd numbers suck." and mindless violence.

I'm pretty sure that her "sharing Arcann's regret about Thexan" was a just a front. She immediately switches to a dismissive tone when talking about him.

I'm pretty sure that her "sharing Arcann's regret about Thexan" was a just a front. She immediately switches to a dismissive tone when talking about him.

I don't really recall it because Vaylin's just a dismissive character who isn't about sentimentality in general. It was probably something she'd rather not think about.

Still, like I said before, or maybe it was in another thread, Bioware would really need to work hard to convince me that she's this crazy mastermind. It's more than possible that she knows Arcann was lying about Valkorian being assassinated by the Outlander, and that she left the room to give Arcann the window to see this plan through. There are plenty of directions to go with this character.

Something tells me that she is the real threat here. Even seems that Arcann tries to keep her placated.

 

I think she's scheming, or biding her time. She is just waiting for him to be killed so she can take the throne. Also, she reminds me of DS Jaesa.

 

What does anyone else think? Any theories?

I also agree that she's the real power behind the throne. I think even Arcann is nervous when it comes to her. It seems like from the snippets of conversation we hear between the two of them that he doesn't want to piss her off, which says to me that he either thinks or knows that she's stronger in the Force than he is. I'm not sure she's actively trying to get Arcann killed, but I do think that she definitely wouldn't mind it if he were. I think that she plays the roll of devoted sister with him so that he'll trust her like he trusted Thexan so he'll let her get away with more stuff.

I hope so too, so far she been most interesting character in this expansion for me.

 

Speaking of her training btw, do you think someone trained/teached her or is she self learned?

She's constantly asking herself "Hmmm, can I do that?" and Senya says Fetus Vaylin could unconsciously move furniture.

I think she is literally just "using the Force." She wants to do something, she does it. This would also explain why she doesn't take her saber all that seriously.

Speaking of her training btw, do you think someone trained/teached her or is she self learned?

There's a quote on Wookieepedia:

"Are there techniques to teach me?"

"Not techniques so much as awareness. Technique is for apprentices. You know all you need to know. It's within you. You only have to become aware of it and embrace it."

―Lumiya, and Jacen Solo[src]

Which suggests it could very well be self-learned, or perhaps come naturally to her.

I don't really recall it because Vaylin's just a dismissive character who isn't about sentimentality in general. It was probably something she'd rather not think about.

 

Still, like I said before, or maybe it was in another thread, Bioware would really need to work hard to convince me that she's this crazy mastermind. It's more than possible that she knows Arcann was lying about Valkorian being assassinated by the Outlander, and that she left the room to give Arcann the window to see this plan through. There are plenty of directions to go with this character.

The same scene also saw her "agreeing" with Arcann that he would die in an unsubtle sinister voice. And in the end of the previous chapter, she seemed only mildly interested in the fact that Arcann had survived his fight with he Outlander.

Add that to the part in Chapter 2 where the Outlander and Valkorian can comment on her not trusting Arcann, I'd say these are similar level of hints to the ones in Dragon Age 2 gave about Corypheus not perishing in Legacy.

The same scene also saw her "agreeing" with Arcann that he would die in an unsubtle sinister voice. And in the end of the previous chapter, she seemed only mildly interested in the fact that Arcann had survived his fight with he Outlander.

 

Add that to the part in Chapter 2 where the Outlander and Valkorian can comment on her not trusting Arcann, I'd say these are similar level of hints to the ones in Dragon Age 2 gave about Corypheus not perishing in Legacy.

The hint was less then subtle, but to toss in another possibility, it doesn't mean she's planning Arcann's death herself, she's force-sensitive and could just be foreseeing the future.

I get the feeling she is gonna catch a case of sudden and unexpected death for the sake of plot twist.

Might even be by her own hand... Exploding like the Inquisitor from channeling too much power with too little control.

As a sidenote, is it just me or does Arcann come off as like a Malak lite?

Eh, I don't think Vaylin held or holds any ill will toward Arcann or even Thexan when he was alive. Thexan was killed by Arcann by accident. I watched the trailer like everyone else. Arcann was pissed off and was after killing his father for never actually BEING a father. You know paying attention, telling his sons he was proud of them, or congratulating them for winning battles. Nothing. Valkorian was constantly off putting, like he could give two ***** in the wind what they did or didn't do. Thexan may have been more level headed and not let it really bother him, but Arcann, good lord.

Vaylin may be super duper powerful in the force, maybe even stronger than the Outlander, but I don't really think she cares all that much about being in charge/being Empress.

I think the siblings DO care for each other. They're mentally messed up and evil little bastards, but I do seriously think they care for one another. Sure, Vaylin may come off as not giving a crap about Thexan or Arcann, but it's the way she speaks. I'm sure if she really and truly wanted nothing to do with her brother, she could have killed Arcann the second the Outlander was out cold on the ground, surprised her brother with a burst of power, and blamed it on the Outlander, who got blamed for killing Valkorian.

As for Senya, I've no idea why they think she's weak. Senya is a mother, who obviously loves her son and daughter even though they're bother evil. Valkorian showed no emotional attachment to his own children, and yet the kids WANTED to stay with him? Why not just go with your mom? Did they think Valkorian would suddenly be all hugs and kisses with them?

I don't know. Something tells me Senya WILL betray you for her children. They are her biological children. We may get a choice to either kill both Arcann and Vaylin or have them get help cause they're both mentally and emotionally messed up from being with Valkorian. I would like to think if they HAD gone with Senya, even Vaylin wouldn't have turned out quite so dark.

But who knows? I just have this feeling, some of what I'm theorizing may come true, though not in the exact way I think. Time will tell.

I just had revelation why Vaylin lost her duel with Senya -- She was dps specced while Senya switched into healing mode. That is also why that fight lasted so long compared to your fight with Arcann.

But anyways, I am feeling so inpatient with future chapters as I want to see what happens with her. Right now for me Vaylin feels like she is walking very narrow rope to great character, but if she slips she will fall into disappointment and one-note crazyness.

About Senya and Vaylin, did Senya say if she asked Valkorian to undo what he did to Vaylin? Or just leave with children?

I just had revelation why Vaylin lost her duel with Senya -- She was dps specced while Senya switched into healing mode. That is also why that fight lasted so long compared to your fight with Arcann.

 

But anyways, I am feeling so inpatient with future chapters as I want to see what happens with her. Right now for me Vaylin feels like she is walking very narrow rope to great character, but if she slips she will fall into disappointment and one-note crazyness.

 

About Senya and Vaylin, did Senya say if she asked Valkorian to undo what he did to Vaylin? Or just leave with children?

I think she wanted to just grab up the three kids and make a break for it. Whether Valkorian lifted the block or not, I don't think Senya cared at that time. She was being a typical mother, wanting to do right by her children.

I think she wanted to just grab up the three kids and make a break for it. Whether Valkorian lifted the block or not, I don't think Senya cared at that time. She was being a typical mother, wanting to do right by her children.

Probably, reason I brought it up is because Vaylin might look it differently. I would not be surprised if for her unblocking was (one of) the dealbreaker when Senya asked to leave with her.

This brings up another question, just how old were they when it all happened and how much time was between caging Vaylin and Senya trying to take them away.

Eh, I don't think Vaylin held or holds any ill will toward Arcann or even Thexan when he was alive. Thexan was killed by Arcann by accident. I watched the trailer like everyone else. Arcann was pissed off and was after killing his father for never actually BEING a father. You know paying attention, telling his sons he was proud of them, or congratulating them for winning battles. Nothing. Valkorian was constantly off putting, like he could give two ***** in the wind what they did or didn't do. Thexan may have been more level headed and not let it really bother him, but Arcann, good lord.

 

Vaylin may be super duper powerful in the force, maybe even stronger than the Outlander, but I don't really think she cares all that much about being in charge/being Empress.

 

I think the siblings DO care for each other. They're mentally messed up and evil little bastards, but I do seriously think they care for one another. Sure, Vaylin may come off as not giving a crap about Thexan or Arcann, but it's the way she speaks. I'm sure if she really and truly wanted nothing to do with her brother, she could have killed Arcann the second the Outlander was out cold on the ground, surprised her brother with a burst of power, and blamed it on the Outlander, who got blamed for killing Valkorian.

 

As for Senya, I've no idea why they think she's weak. Senya is a mother, who obviously loves her son and daughter even though they're bother evil. Valkorian showed no emotional attachment to his own children, and yet the kids WANTED to stay with him? Why not just go with your mom? Did they think Valkorian would suddenly be all hugs and kisses with them?

 

I don't know. Something tells me Senya WILL betray you for her children. They are her biological children. We may get a choice to either kill both Arcann and Vaylin or have them get help cause they're both mentally and emotionally messed up from being with Valkorian. I would like to think if they HAD gone with Senya, even Vaylin wouldn't have turned out quite so dark.

 

But who knows? I just have this feeling, some of what I'm theorizing may come true, though not in the exact way I think. Time will tell.

I think it's much more likely that Senya will die at Vaylin's (or perhaps Arcann's) hands sometimes later in the story.

i think people are selling Arcann a bit short in this thread. Yes Vaylin does seem to have more raw forcepower than him, but he is still quite formidable, since he kind of kicks our asses

The magic of cutscene powerups. BioWare loves these - like how you could stunlock Kai Leng in the Thessia fight in ME3 and just destroy him easily from range, but as soon as the cutscene pops up he magically gains the ability to waste you and your team.

That is one half of the story, the other half is they can't make it too hard for player. In other words story wise Arcann is a lot more powerful than in those fights, but scaled down so that more than small % of players can take him down enough to progress the story.

Why couldn't they? Just give the NPC enough skills and stats to beat any PC with some margin, then have the cutscene start when the PC gets to 50%.