Only the emperor can enjoy the "Through victory my chains are broken" part. Everyone else has to abide to their masters rule. Their chains are not as tight when they ascend in power but the rule of two means that each member of the Sith always has someone above them except the emperor himself.

So in reality their chains are never broken, the force never fully sets them free in the dark side of the force since the stronger you get the more enemies you get until you reach the absolute top. And if you remain weak you will be dominated or killed.

Only the emperor can enjoy the "Through victory my chains are broken" part. Everyone else has to abide to their masters rule. Their chains are not as tight when they ascend in power but the rule of two means that each member of the Sith always has someone above them except the emperor himself.

 

So in reality their chains are never broken, the force never fully sets them free in the dark side of the force since the stronger you get the more enemies you get until you reach the absolute top. And if you remain weak you will be dominated or killed.

It's not a perfect system, for sure.

Jedi Code ain't much better though.

It's not a perfect system, for sure.

 

Jedi Code ain't much better though.

I guess both codes are better then letting force sensitive people develop without any training.

One could argue that the Jedi are always chained, whereas the Sith at least have the option of breaking free, if they have the strength and will.

On the other hand, the majority of Jedi seem to be content with their ways and I can understand why actually. When it comes down to it, I'd rather make the sacrifices necessary to become Jedi than live with the constant stress of being Sith.

Besides, the Jedi code is misunderstood by many, it's not nearly as oppressive as it seems. It's not about repressing emotion but controlling it, rather than it controlling you as is the way of Sith.

As someone who strives to be as reasonable and objective as I possibly can be (I am only human, but I do try) I find a lt more sense in the Jedi code than the Sith code. The Sith are all about relatively short lived gratification whereas the Jedi as more about lasting serentiy, which to me sounds like the best option overall.

But, both sides are extremes, they both have flaws. Overall though I would say the Jedi code is actually much more liberating than the Sith if you take a moment to consider it. Is a Sith that constantly has to be on his guard really more free than the man who lives a life of serenity, not bothered by the restrictions put on his life?

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Through strength, I gain power.

Through power, I gain victory.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

The Force shall free me.

The "Through victory my chains are broken" actually makes some sense. Yes, you're a slave/servant/etc. to your master, but the whole goal is to kill your master. When you finally gain enough power, which the code tells you how to do, you can kill your master and "break your chains".

Kinda like captialism... only the rich prosper...

but thats not the point.

The sith is all about personal prowess. If you prove yourself worthy you will climb the ranks and become more powerful (and more free).

Both the Jedi and the Sith Code are about freedom by Transcending the here and now, and the the petty wants and needs and fears that life brings.

Both seek to be one with the force just via dfferent means.

The Sith use raw emotion to drive them beyond what they could normally achieve, they stop thins and just do, and as they becomes more and more part of them, thier ego neeeding to control them weakens and thier chains are broken.

Just as the Death is the Jedi code refers to the death of the self and becoming one with the universe.

Enlightenment via either action or meditation, both the same goals.

It is the Orders themselves that becomes so involved with themselves that they both chain themselves down and fail to achieve this. Both Orders stangnate in doctrine twisted for political realities or self ambition. The Sith are so driven for power to control, but it power the last line of the code, is it the objective? No, nor is it even meaning power over others, but power over ones self.

The Sith Emperor is a prisioner to his own fear of death, he has failed the Sith Code.

The problem of the Sith is that of hypocricy. At least the Jedi are honest enough on their true intentions, the Sith created an Empire where indeed nobody but the Emperor himself could possibly live by the Code.

If all Sith truly lived by the Code, the Empire would be in utter Chaos. Also through the levelling experience you often are told to listen to your Master. Is this part of feeling how you are in chains and motivating you to increase your power? No, it is merely the higher ups having control over you. They never teach you to be your own self, they merely teach you to survive.

This generation of Sith have already thrown away on the Code, and any Sith that bows to his Master prooves this. The power structure should not be there at all.

This is the main reason for the Rule of Two. Because when more than two Sith exist, no Sith can live by it's Code.

the rule of two

The rule of Two doesn't exist in this time period.

The problem of the Sith is that of hypocricy. At least the Jedi are honest enough on their true intentions, the Sith created an Empire where indeed nobody but the Emperor himself could possibly live by the Code.

 

If all Sith truly lived by the Code, the Empire would be in utter Chaos. Also through the levelling experience you often are told to listen to your Master. Is this part of feeling how you are in chains and motivating you to increase your power? No, it is merely the higher ups having control over you. They never teach you to be your own self, they merely teach you to survive.

 

This generation of Sith have already thrown away on the Code, and any Sith that bows to his Master prooves this. The power structure should not be there at all.

 

This is the main reason for the Rule of Two. Because when more than two Sith exist, no Sith can live by it's Code.

Spoken like a true Jedi.

You are saying your opinion as fact, amusing.

The fact you are wrong on the Rule of Two is also amusing.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_of_two

If you need to read it do so. The reason it was made was because of how before hand the Code weakened the Sith's Empire.

One over the many versus the Republic/Jedi's more Many over the few mentality.

It's all debatable to some point but if everyone is stabbing everyone in the back and often making huge losses happen to undermine other Sith which can and has in many cases can/has made the Empire have many losses.

Short but sweet version, the Sith Code basically says become the most powerful Sith ever by breaking all chains (opposition as it comes) till no chains are left, IMO.

One could argue that the Jedi are always chained, whereas the Sith at least have the option of breaking free, if they have the strength and will.

 

On the other hand, the majority of Jedi seem to be content with their ways and I can understand why actually. When it comes down to it, I'd rather make the sacrifices necessary to become Jedi than live with the constant stress of being Sith.

 

Besides, the Jedi code is misunderstood by many, it's not nearly as oppressive as it seems. It's not about repressing emotion but controlling it, rather than it controlling you as is the way of Sith.

 

As someone who strives to be as reasonable and objective as I possibly can be (I am only human, but I do try) I find a lt more sense in the Jedi code than the Sith code. The Sith are all about relatively short lived gratification whereas the Jedi as more about lasting serentiy, which to me sounds like the best option overall.

 

But, both sides are extremes, they both have flaws. Overall though I would say the Jedi code is actually much more liberating than the Sith if you take a moment to consider it. Is a Sith that constantly has to be on his guard really more free than the man who lives a life of serenity, not bothered by the restrictions put on his life?

You know I completely agree, we know that for example LOVE, is technically allowed in the jedi code, there have been Jedi that fell in love and got married, the point tho is they cannot let that control them and hurt others simply because of love. If anakin lived a good life without being so arrogant and well...in TOR terms making tons of dark side choices, then he would have been allowed to be with padme....still this brings a very good point, the constant fear that some sith might kill you to try and reach beyond you is stressful as opposed to the jedi which constantly relax stay calm and focus.

Only the emperor can enjoy the "Through victory my chains are broken" part. Everyone else has to abide to their masters rule. Their chains are not as tight when they ascend in power but the rule of two means that each member of the Sith always has someone above them except the emperor himself.

 

So in reality their chains are never broken, the force never fully sets them free in the dark side of the force since the stronger you get the more enemies you get until you reach the absolute top. And if you remain weak you will be dominated or killed.

"Victory" does not mean victory over all external forces. This is impossible for anybody. Even the Emperor.

"Victory" as understood by the Sith and practitioners of the left hand path will never be understood by someone who believes that unification with the force is the greatest thing a setient being can aspire to.

Victory means victory over all forces that limit the self from comming into being. Victory is the ability to crystalize all the passion and desire in your core self and use it to evolve to become the most powerful and enlightened being you can possibly be.

You are a stimlus/response machiene whose complancency allows you to be used by an unintelligible force of nature. You are Jedi.

We are realized individuals who exalt the self so that the self can use the force as a tool, instead of being a tool to be used by the force.

We are Sith.

It seems that most Sith are mainly concerned about the middle lines of the code.

..., I gain strength.

Through strength, I gain power.

Through power,...

They don't follow their passions anymore but use them to gain power. It's all about power. Unlimeted power.

At least that seems to be the main concern of most of the Sith most of the time. Especially in the Empire.

Few Sith achieved the victory they longed for. And I would say (nearly) none of the great Sith Lords was ever "set free". Would you consider Palpatine as free? He was controlled by his hunger for power and his arrogance. And his duty was bound to the fate of his Empire. Would you consider Bane as free? Afaik he thought about him self as a servent to the goals of the Sith. He infested his whole life in an Apprentice who would kill him only that the Sith one day, in the far future, may rule the galaxy.

Well, it depends on your definition of freedom.

It's definitly not the freedom I want.

So I kind of agree with the OP. The Sith code is for the elite. But even they seem to be stuck in the middle of the code. (Maybe the 'heretics' where the true sith. You know, Darth Vader, Visas Marr, Kel'eth Ur (you find his holocorn in the temple), Revan(?), ... They finally were set free.)

Despite my 'heretic' attitude, I think everyone agrees that the Sith society is about power and therefor the strength-power-lines of the sith code are the most important for them. Those who have power = the top.

You are a stimlus/response machiene whose complancency allows you to be used by an unintelligible force of nature. You are Jedi.

We are realized individuals who exalt the self so that the self can use the force as a tool, instead of being a tool to be used by the force.

We are Sith.

That may be true. But as a Sith not only the force is a tool for you, every person around you is a tool to. You try to exploit everyone for your needs and every other sith, especially your master, will try the same with you.

I'd rather be a response machine for the force then for a Sith Lord.

the rule of two means that each member of the Sith always has someone above them except the emperor himself.

At the point at which this game takes place, the Rule of Two won't be invented for another two thousand years. And in fact, the infighting and divisiveness of this Sith Empire is what made the Rule of Two necessary in the first place.

The "Through victory my chains are broken" actually makes some sense. Yes, you're a slave/servant/etc. to your master, but the whole goal is to kill your master. When you finally gain enough power, which the code tells you how to do, you can kill your master and "break your chains".

But then you start worrying about your own servants plotting to kill you. You can be just as chained to a master, as to your own apprentices. Even if you don't take an apprentice, as long as there is someone to covet your power; they'll try to kill you and take what you own eventually.

Going from this line of reasoning, the only method which will really liberate a Sith is to simply kill everyone else in the galaxy. This is probably why Sith view killing so casually.

One could argue that the Jedi are always chained, whereas the Sith at least have the option of breaking free, if they have the strength and will.

 

On the other hand, the majority of Jedi seem to be content with their ways and I can understand why actually. When it comes down to it, I'd rather make the sacrifices necessary to become Jedi than live with the constant stress of being Sith.

 

Besides, the Jedi code is misunderstood by many, it's not nearly as oppressive as it seems. It's not about repressing emotion but controlling it, rather than it controlling you as is the way of Sith.

 

As someone who strives to be as reasonable and objective as I possibly can be (I am only human, but I do try) I find a lt more sense in the Jedi code than the Sith code. The Sith are all about relatively short lived gratification whereas the Jedi as more about lasting serentiy, which to me sounds like the best option overall.

 

But, both sides are extremes, they both have flaws. Overall though I would say the Jedi code is actually much more liberating than the Sith if you take a moment to consider it. Is a Sith that constantly has to be on his guard really more free than the man who lives a life of serenity, not bothered by the restrictions put on his life?

Wholeheartedly agree, brother.

I think most everyone here is taking the code too literally. The purpose of the Sith code is ambition and self-actualization.

Peace is a Lie, there is only passion Peace causes stagnation; do not settle for what you are find your passion to grow and improve.

Through passion, I gain strength. Use your passions to motivate you; take strength in the things you enjoy and use them to grow.

Through strength, I gain power. Now that you're being guided by your passions and have an understanding of yourself, you have power over yourself.

Through power, I gain victory. By possessing power over your desires, and knowing your limitations you have gained victory over those desires. You can control yourself, because you know yourself.

Through victory, my chains are broken. By knowing yourself and conquering your desires you become free of all the entanglements and bindings that would hold back a less "actualized" person. Moral quandaries are no longer difficult, because you are beyond doubt and indecision.

The Force shall free me. The Force, desire, ambition, all of these things have freed you from you stagnation and mediocrity.

Taking the code too literally leads to paranoia and infighting, while taking it too theoretically means no progress is made. A Sith must be Lucifernian in his actions, selfish and driven to succeed.

I think most everyone here is taking the code too literally. The purpose of the Sith code is ambition and self-actualization.

 

Peace is a Lie, there is only passion Peace causes stagnation; do not settle for what you are find your passion to grow and improve.

 

Through passion, I gain strength. Use your passions to motivate you; take strength in the things you enjoy and use them to grow.

 

Through strength, I gain power. Now that you're being guided by your passions and have an understanding of yourself, you have power over yourself.

 

Through power, I gain victory. By possessing power over your desires, and knowing your limitations you have gained victory over those desires. You can control yourself, because you know yourself.

 

Through victory, my chains are broken. By knowing yourself and conquering your desires you become free of all the entanglements and bindings that would hold back a less "actualized" person. Moral quandaries are no longer difficult, because you are beyond doubt and indecision.

 

The Force shall free me. The Force, desire, ambition, all of these things have freed you from you stagnation and mediocrity.

 

Taking the code too literally leads to paranoia and infighting, while taking it too theoretically means no progress is made. A Sith must be Lucifernian in his actions, selfish and driven to succeed.

Unfortunately for the Sith (And fortunately for everyone else) you are much smarter than most of they are.

I think most everyone here is taking the code too literally. The purpose of the Sith code is ambition and self-actualization.

 

Peace is a Lie, there is only passion Peace causes stagnation; do not settle for what you are find your passion to grow and improve.

 

Through passion, I gain strength. Use your passions to motivate you; take strength in the things you enjoy and use them to grow.

 

Through strength, I gain power. Now that you're being guided by your passions and have an understanding of yourself, you have power over yourself.

 

Through power, I gain victory. By possessing power over your desires, and knowing your limitations you have gained victory over those desires. You can control yourself, because you know yourself.

 

Through victory, my chains are broken. By knowing yourself and conquering your desires you become free of all the entanglements and bindings that would hold back a less "actualized" person. Moral quandaries are no longer difficult, because you are beyond doubt and indecision.

 

The Force shall free me. The Force, desire, ambition, all of these things have freed you from you stagnation and mediocrity.

 

Taking the code too literally leads to paranoia and infighting, while taking it too theoretically means no progress is made. A Sith must be Lucifernian in his actions, selfish and driven to succeed.

Line 1: Peace causes stagnation? As my consular said very early on, peace is what allows civilizations to flourish. Warfare destroys the infrastructure required to do anything productive.

Line 2: Blindly following one's passions without detachment and restraint is childlike. It's a desire for instant gratification and leads one to make mistakes. That is not strength; far from it.

Line 3: How does following one's passions lead to self-mastery? It seems you're at cross-purposes here, because flailing about to satisfy wants isn't very controlled at all.

Line 4: As noted above, I think this chain of reasoning doesn't stand up to close examination. How does giving in to passion lead to power over one's self? A lot of the Sith we see have very little restraint.

Line 5: Yeah, uh, it's Jedi who avoid attachment. That's the point of their Code.

Line 6: At this point I'm convinced that you actually decided to perform an "inside job" and discredit the Sith philosophy under the guise of justifying it, and thereby proving that the Jedi way is superior after all. Well done.