The reasons are simple.

 

Operatives, sorcs, and mercs are going to be heavily nerfed in 1.2 - and unless you're on PTS protesting those changes, you're not really pushing to change that.

 

Given those nerfs, assassins are already stronger and thus need to be heavily rebalanced, with exactly the nerfs I propose.

Thats not a reason, I asked for why you want those 3 particular nerfs.

Reason why force shroud/pull is "OP"?

I thought you were claiming the tank spec nerfed, not the whole damned class.

You clearly want the tank spec nerfed, so make it obvious what you want, instead of posting URGENT SHADOW NERF NEEDED!

Infiltration needs a survivability buff, why else do you think 1% of the shadow population plays that spec? It is more useless than op in group combat. The easiest class to kill in the game atm.

Those claiming that Sins can deal 600k damage per voidstar/any pvp match is clearly talking out of their backside. Video/Screens or it didnt happen

Here is a twitch.tv channel of the guy "Zap". http://www.twitch.tv/zap55 . He deals such damage routinely.

It did happened. It is just you.

Thats not a reason, I asked for why you want those 3 particular nerfs.

Reason why force shroud/pull is "OP"?

I thought you were claiming the tank spec nerfed, not the whole damned class.

 

You clearly want the tank spec nerfed, so make it obvious what you want, instead of posting URGENT SHADOW NERF NEEDED!

 

Infiltration needs a survivability buff, why else do you think 1% of the shadow population plays that spec? It is more useless than op in group combat. The easiest class to kill in the game atm.

Oh force shroud removed because it is far too strong (prevents CC, prevents more damage, lasts nearly twice as long) compared to the operative defensive cooldown, deflection is about the same.

Force pull removed because why should assassins have or need 2 gap closers when other melee have none. Force speed is enough, the talent to make force speed remove roots needs to go as well.

What really amazes me in that lol game - iwin buttons.

I press 1 button and start being immune to tech and force for 5 sec.

Wait a minute, I can be healed by tech and force powers while being immune to tech and force powers?

Like a baws.

Oh force shroud removed because it is far too strong (prevents CC, prevents more damage, lasts nearly twice as long) compared to the operative defensive cooldown, deflection is about the same.

 

Force pull removed because why should assassins have or need 2 gap closers when other melee have none. Force speed is enough, the talent to make force speed remove roots needs to go as well.

Removing abilities is not gonna happen, simple as that. Reducing the damage done while in tank stance is enough to stop shadow from being OP. No need to reduce the utility.

Why are you still comparing tank shadow to operative?

Tank being compared to Burst? Do you have any clue at all?

You clearly don't.

Removing abilities is not gonna happen, simple as that. Reducing the damage done while in tank stance is enough to stop shadow from being OP. No need to reduce the utility.

 

Why are you still comparing tank shadow to operative?

Tank being compared to Burst? Do you have any clue at all?

 

You clearly don't.

Just ignore the bloke, he's clearly clueless.

I've posted a few times in this thread, but worth reiterating:

1) I don't play KC shadow except in raids, but have played KC in the past in pvp

2) KC shadows are not overpowered

3) KC shadows appear overpowered because they are kings of 1v1, which means a lot of people get owned and thus cry nerf

4) Everyone calling KC shadows overpowered neglects the fact that KC shadows are extremely weak in group situations (due to self-healing not scaling)

5) Good players easily beat KC shadows by interupting their heal.

6) KC shadows post high damage numbers in warzones due to regularly, moderate damage AoE. Our single target damage is pathetic unless we use relic + adrenal, something that isn't exclusive to shadows.

7) Infiltration shadows need a buff to survivability - currently the worst survivability of all melee DPS, OPs do higher burst, Sents to higher sustained damage.

The above reasoning is exactly why shadows aren't getting nerfed in 1.2: because they aren't overpowered or imbalanced. Shadows / Assassins are not very good in group pvp compared to every other class. They are only good at small scale fighting, something that doesn't happen very often.

Thats not a reason, I asked for why you want those 3 particular nerfs.

Reason why force shroud/pull is "OP"?

I thought you were claiming the tank spec nerfed, not the whole damned class.

 

You clearly want the tank spec nerfed, so make it obvious what you want, instead of posting URGENT SHADOW NERF NEEDED!

 

Infiltration needs a survivability buff, why else do you think 1% of the shadow population plays that spec? It is more useless than op in group combat. The easiest class to kill in the game atm.

Exactly this. People really need to try playing shadow, or at least study our skill trees better on http://www.torhead.com/

Clearly people ask for the Tank spec to be nerfed, but some people are going the whole way asking for the whole class to be nerfed. I play Infiltrator, we actually need a buff, not a nerf. People really need to understand what it is they are asking for, instead of asking for a complete class nerf, when they clearly don't understand the class.

Oh force shroud removed because it is far too strong (prevents CC, prevents more damage, lasts nearly twice as long) compared to the operative defensive cooldown, deflection is about the same.

 

Force pull removed because why should assassins have or need 2 gap closers when other melee have none. Force speed is enough, the talent to make force speed remove roots needs to go as well.

Operatives aren't assassins... I don't know why you're trying to compare apples and oranges. Let alone for 4+ pages. Bad comparison is bad.

Operatives aren't assassins... I don't know why you're trying to compare apples and oranges. Let alone for 4+ pages. Bad comparison is bad.

Stealth classes are Stealth Classes?

Here is a twitch.tv channel of the guy "Zap". http://www.twitch.tv/zap55 . He deals such damage routinely.

 

It did happened. It is just you.

I wonder if I was on TV while I was standing next to him at an Alderaan turret asking about his OP spec.

He takes 20-25% of my health off pretty much each attack.

Removing abilities is not gonna happen, simple as that. Reducing the damage done while in tank stance is enough to stop shadow from being OP. No need to reduce the utility.

 

Why are you still comparing tank shadow to operative?

Tank being compared to Burst? Do you have any clue at all?

 

You clearly don't.

What Redmarx want is any class that is a challenge to him nerfed to the ground cuz he that bad at pvp he need a i win button against all classes that way he can epeen in fleet how leet he is in pvp. Thats reading between the lines in his postings. Truth is truth you cant hide it.

So many terribad assassins/shadows are scared of having their FOTM easymode taken away.

The nerfs will mean only good assassins/shadows will do well.

The bad ones will finally have to learn to play a class that isn't so easy to do well with.

Stealth classes are Stealth Classes?

That's just ridiculous. In essence I could do the same by asking that operative healing be removed because a deception assassin can't heal. It's stupid, illogical, and unreasonable. Just because 2 classes share some abilities doesn't mean they should be the same. If you want that, maybe you should play an FPS.

Once again. Apples and oranges...

So many terribad assassins/shadows are scared of having their FOTM easymode taken away.

 

The nerfs will mean only good assassins/shadows will do well.

 

The bad ones will finally have to learn to play a class that isn't so easy to do well with.

It's not necessarily FOTM, the two other specs have absolutely no survivability whatsoever unless you have a pocket healer. Which, tbh, the only times I've ever seen an infiltration or balance specced shadow, they were in a 4 man premade with at least one or two healers.

So many terribad assassins/shadows are scared of having their FOTM easymode taken away.

 

The nerfs will mean only good assassins/shadows will do well.

 

The bad ones will finally have to learn to play a class that isn't so easy to do well with.

Says the guy comparing ops to shadows until he was called out for it.

I call some BS here, I have full Battlemaster Tankassin, with ****** enhancements replaced with crit/surge. I don't pull anywhere close to those numbers. In fact I am sorta jealous of operatives getting 5300 highest hits while my best is about 2700. I tend to have about 50-60% of the total damage of a real dps class.

 

If they buffed assassin survivability in the other two stances (cloth sucks) id likely play deception.

http://szapas.imgur.com/all/

That was posted earlier in the thread. It sounds like you don't know how to play the class yet.

The name of the game currently is 3 Tankasins guarding 3 healers (2 of them Merc healers.) Fill the last 2 spots with a Marauder and a Rage specced Juggernaut.

Merc/Commando is the absolute hardest healer to kill while under Guard. In fact, it's nigh impossible, and should you actually kill him it will have taken you so long that you won't get anything remotely done Objective wise in the Warzone, i.e plant bombs, cap turrets, etc.

Tankasins do some of the best DAMAGE in the game while Guarding, Taunting, and generally just being as survivable as a Tank normally would. No other Tank can pull these numbers while being TANK spec and in TANK stance.

A Rage specced Juggernaut brings more utility and decent damage and burst while still being able to Taunt.

Finally, the Marauder brings superb sustained damage and the heal debuff for trained targets.

It seems people are severely underestimating the importance of Guard and Taunt. Maybe it's because your server just hasn't caught on yet, who knows, but soon after 1.2 hits I suspect people will start to really see the imbalance setups like that cause. With that many tanks, you can expect your whole team to be covered in Taunts. In essence, your whole team is doing 30% less damage for a good portion of the game. Coupled with Guards, good luck killing anything. By the time you've reached the 'critical mass' number of people on a single target to train it down, you won't have enough to cover the other healers to prevent them from keeping the trained target alive anyway.

You'll notice that in that setup, which I've faced many times I assure you, there's only 1 non tank and non healer. Tankasins just do way too much damage to justify losing guard and taunt for a true DPS class. Unless your own team brings a similar setup with as many Guards, you won't last long. So the only recourse is to run a very similar setup which results in a match where nobody dies.

Even after the Tankasin nerf comes barreling down upon them, it still won't fix the underlying problem that Taunt is too critical of an ability to not have on your team. It's not an easy fix because you want Tank classes in DPS specs to be able to do just that - dps, but not only can they do similar numbers as actual DPS classes, they bring the much critical taunt as well.

There are screenshots of it only a few posts back.

 

Stop trying to discount the avalanche of actual data proving assassins are FOTM easymode.

 

Force shroud removed because it is far too strong (prevents CC, prevents more damage, lasts nearly twice as long) compared to the operative defensive cooldown, deflection is about the same.

 

Force pull removed because why should assassins have or need 2 gap closers when other melee have none. Force speed is enough, the talent to make force speed remove roots needs to go as well.

 

Urgent nerfs needed:

 

- Dark charge reduces all damage done by 50%, increases threat by 100%

- Force shroud removed, dot removal moved to Deflection

- Force pull removed

- Disjunction talent removed

 

Then assassins will be balanced with operatives and juggs in their respective specs.

Sure, once they finally fix Operatives once and for all:

- Acid Blades put on a 2 minute cooldown

- Hidden Strike removed

- Backstab requires Tactical Advantage

- Tactical Advantage cannot be stacked, you can only have 1 at a time

Once Operatives are finally where they need to be, then we can start to look at other classes.

Tankasins do some of the best DAMAGE in the game while Guarding, Taunting, and generally just being as survivable as a Tank normally would. No other Tank can pull these numbers while being TANK spec and in TANK stance.

So what's the actual DPS of the three tanks so we can compare? You make a statement that no other tank can match an Assassin's damage, then provide no evidence to support that. Linking some cherry-picked screenshots showing total damage done of one class is not providing DPS of all three classes to compare. You haven't even shown the DPS of one class, nor have you even defined what 'too much' damage is. You also haven't given us your opinion on how much DPS a tank should do.

Until you provide any of that, it's just more whining.

So what's the actual DPS of the three tanks so we can compare? You make a statement that no other tank can match an Assassin's damage, then provide no evidence to support that. Linking some cherry-picked screenshots showing total damage done of one class is not providing DPS of all three classes to compare. You haven't even shown the DPS of one class, nor have you even defined what 'too much' damage is. You also haven't given us your opinion on how much DPS a tank should do.

 

Until you provide any of that, it's just more whining.

Youtube

search Guardian Defence Pvp, by date

search Vanguard Pvp, by date

search Shadow Tank Pvp, by date

compare vid's and end game board damage.

proof provided... in spades...

Clearly you dont see things from the Empires point of view. I could argue that almost everyone plays a Trooper for that ol' grav spam favourite.

 

People play Sith Assassin because a) its a cool class b) requires the player to actually WORK for their kill, instead of pressing just one button to rack up 400k+ damage.

 

Jedi Knights/Consulars have enough tricks up their sleeves to take out an Assassin when used correctly. Try learning your class?

 

I've spent hours watching youtube videos, trying out several builds and finally(after 8 different attempts) found a build that deals alot of damage(if my crit kicks in), actually INVOLVES me to play and importantly, is alot of fun to play.

Consular is the parent class so whatever tricks they may have to kill an assassin, the inquisitor line has them as well. I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Youtube

search Guardian Defence Pvp, by date

search Vanguard Pvp, by date

search Shadow Tank Pvp, by date

 

compare vid's and end game board damage.

 

proof provided... in spades...

Feel free to provide the links, but end game board damage is not DPS.

Once Operatives are finally where they need to be, then we can start to look at other classes.

So much OP hate came early on, is it any wonder there are a few out there with something of a hate streak for the rest of our "fine community"?

So much OP hate came early on, is it any wonder there are a few out there with something of a hate streak for the rest of our "fine community"?

His schtick has gotten very old so every time I see him post his moronic Assassin hate posts to 'prove his point', I'll just respond with equally idiotic anti-Operative replies.