I see so many forum posts comparing WoW to SWTOR. Everyone keeps raising all these points about how WOW has so much more to do than swtor and how much better the pve and pvp is which is debatable. But to be honest I don't believe it's fair to compare a game that has three expansions and ten years worth of content to a game that's only six weeks old. There is no way that Bioware could make a game with that much content in one go. That takes time and honestly nobody would have been happy waiting another ten years for them to do it. The game would have been outdated by then so I want to have a discussion on WoW vanilla vs SWToR vanilla.

 

PVP:

 

Wow

No batttlegrounds, no world pvp hubs. The only pvp that existed was defending Crossroads from all the jerks who would zerg it and try to gank the lowbies and kill the flight master/quest givers. I can remember logging off for hours to go play an alt just because I was unable to continue questing in the area. That's not very fun pvp in my opinion.

 

SWTOR

3 Battlegrounds, Ilum, PVP hubs in Alderaan and Tatooine. Yes the pvp needs some tweaking but it's there and I actually enjoy it. Sure the high end armor is a bit of a pain but so was wows in the beginning. At least with SWTOR you get to keep your gear once you earn it if you stop pvp'ing for a bit. Remember in WoW when you had to keep your ratings up in order to be able to even equip your gear and that was over a year after wow had been out.

 

PVE

WoW:

Some fun quests and a few storylines at least when you actually take the time to read them but honestly unless it was a major story and maybe not even then most of the time I just hit accept went to where it was on the map and did it.

 

SWTOR

I love the storylines. Yes even the one's I've done before and grouping makes them more enjoyable. Nothing like playing a LS character only to have that Sith kill the captain that you wanted to spare or vice versa. Gives it alot of replay value.

 

UI

WoW

Yes wow has a better Ui system with mods but it's kind of nice not to constantly have to wait for mod updates or bugs caused by the mods. At the same time I do miss being able to customize my UI to my taste.

 

SWTOR

No customizable UI or modding. Good and bad. BW is working on it and we will soon have customizable UI and more hotbars hopefully. I'm not sure about mods though. But mods have their own bad side such as bugs, spammers, identity theft, etc. Of course they have their good side to such as damage meters, better maps, etc.

 

Ok I'm tired of typing. If anyone has more to add please do so. It doesn't matter if you're for wow or swtor or both. I'd like to see the differences whether positive or negative for each side in SWTOR vanilla vs WoW vanilla.

Great post.

 

Sadly, the only people who will read/believe it are the follow pre-bc wower's.

 

The wrathbabies, who most need to understand that wow exsisted before they could AoE roflstomp through hard modes, won't believe you.

I tried returning to WOW when Blizzard offered me a free week.

 

Did a few quests, tried new dungeons and new features... well, long story short, I could not bring myself to enjoy it.

 

1. After a few text only quests in WoW, you just find yourself not reading anything and just clicking accept. The voice over is great in SWToR and quests just feel more real here because of it. Yes, you still just kill 10 people over there or bring a 4 items to that guy, but at least the game gives you feeling that there is a purpose behind it.

 

2. Graphic style of todays WoW does not suit me - sorry, but 3 meters large pink sword and 300 kg heavy blue crystal hammer may be part of Final Fantasy universe, but WoW will always be medieval world in my heart. WoW vanilla did respect the original Warcraft lore - Imperial Plate set and Morgan Ladimore's sword Archeus was the perfect example of good looking equipment. Yes, you can change appearance of your gear now, but there will still be 75% of people around you who will just ruin it for you. SWToR is loyal to Star Wars design concerning its equipment appearance.

 

3. What bothers me too is that every guy in the WoW universe now flies a dragon. Dragons were quite rare in Warcraft universe. That is the reason why Zuluhed the Whacked and his Dragonmaw clan was so treasured in the Horde even though the clan was relatively small. Thanks a lot Bioware for NOT leting us fly on the planets (except for taxi). If everyone just flew around, it would ruin the experience for me because speeders are just too important part of Star Wars for me. Just as the ground mounts were important in WoW.

 

4. I think that Cross-server LFD and LFR system ruined WoW. Why? Because people needed to be polite when in groups. If they behaved like angry children and ninja items, they would go to ignore list and soon they would not have anyone to group with. With cross-server LFD, you just never meet the same person again. Why not to steal every drop for myself and yell at everyone what <insert_obscene_word>s they are. I was very happy when Bioware said that while they plan to implement LFG sytem, they will NOT make it cross-server.

 

Does SWToR have bad sides? Oh, yes, definately yes. There are bugs, threre is currently no possibility to customize UI etc.. But I can live with a few bugs knowing that the game is only one month old. Especially when I see that the bugs are being removed with every patch.

 

Is WoW a bad game? No, it is not. But it became something different than it used to be. It is no longer the game where mighty knights in steel armor and long-bearded wizards fight strong Horde of evil greenskins. It is no longer the game with gloomy and horror-like environment. It is not the game I want to play. It became a game with quests filled with of joke lines (some of the jokes are actually pretty good) where Pandas will roam the world under a happy rainbow of shining colors that people have on their armor (well, Pandarens are not implemented yet, but we all saw the new expansion trailer)

Edited February 5, 2012 by Jedlosson

Its funny when people try and compare Swtor release to WOW release, cuz u know, wow was released how many years ago? U have to compare the current state of games, regardless of being newly released or not. Like cmon, how dumb do u think game companies are lol.

 

"Herp derp, But vanilla Swtor (released in late 2011) is better then vanilla WoW (released in late 2004)."

 

LOL cmon man, cmon. If MMO "makers" thrive to be better then the release of a 2004 game, instead of trying to be better then the 7 years of improving that went into it, then they have no buisiness in MMO's (a.k.a Bioware).

This is a fail post because comparing something like WoW to SWTOR isn't wrong because a lot of the things WoW pioneered later games that launch also implemented. Rift has cross server PvP and LFG and at least some WoW comparison. I started playing WoW in beta. So the comparison isn't that this game as done these things in 10years. It is this things have become the new standard and BW is dragging there feet on them.

Rift has cross server PvP and LFG and at least some WoW comparison.

 

And is terrible in part because of those.

Would you be miffed if your new car didn't have air bags because a car 7 years ago didn't have them when they first released.

 

Only an idiot makes that comparison.

 

Only an idiot believes a product wont be compared to it's CURRENT competitors.

 

I love the game, but it has problems that are pretty glaring when compared.

4. I think that Cross-server LFD and LFR system ruined WoW. Why? Because people needed to be polite when in groups. If they behaved like angry children and ninja items, they would go to ignore list and soon they would not have anyone to group with. With cross-server LFD, you just never meet the same person again. Why not to steal every drop for myself and yell at everyone what <insert_obscene_word>s they are. I was very happy when Bioware said that while they plan to implement LFG sytem, they will NOT make it cross-server.

 

As opposed to the current state where people sit around Fleet for an hour trying to get a group. Yeah it's a real improvement. Try giving the majority of players a bit more credit than believing that a cross-server FP finder would turn the majority of them into ninja bastards.

 

Maybe you forgot the most important reason people got tired of WoW: it's been around since late 2004. It's rather difficult to keep a game interesting for so long. Bioware is already learning this as there are increasing complaints from players about the lack of content in swtor and its only been out over 2 months.

I want to have a discussion on WoW vanilla vs SWToR vanilla.

 

You can pretty much stop reading here.

What is a valid comparison? A valid comparison is the features of 2012 WoW vs. the features of 2012 TOR. BioWare should have looked at the features (UI, mods/addons, LFD, etc) in 2012 WoW and said to themselves "these are the things that MMO players asked for in the last few years. These are the things most MMO players want. We'd better make sure they're there at launch." But they didn't do that, and it should be even more obvious in hind sight that they should have.

 

What is an invalid comparison? An invalid comparison is the content of 2012 WoW vs. the content of 2012 TOR. 2012 WoW is three, and about to be four expansions deep. They've had eight years post release to develop content while TOR is barely a month post release.

 

TOR is a decent game now and can be a good game if the features that should have been in at launch are added quickly. TOR also needs more end game content that differentiates itself from WoW. Right now TOR's end game is a carbon copy of WoW's end game and this more than anything else is my massive disappointment with this game. It's the reason TOR won't get a long-term sub from me.

I tried returning to WOW when Blizzard offered me a free week.

 

Did a few quests, tried new dungeons and new features... well, long story short, I could not bring myself to enjoy it.

 

1. After a few text only quests in WoW, you just find yourself not reading anything and just clicking accept. The voice over is great in SWToR and quests just feel more real here because of it. Yes, you still just kill 10 people over there or bring a 4 items to that guy, but at least the game gives you feeling that there is a purpose behind it.

 

2. Graphic style of todays WoW does not suit me - sorry, but 3 meters large pink sword and 300 kg heavy blue crystal hammer may be part of Final Fantasy universe, but WoW will always be medieval world in my heart. WoW vanilla did respect the original Warcraft lore - Imperial Plate set and Morgan Ladimore's sword Archeus was the perfect example of good looking equipment. Yes, you can change appearance of your gear now, but there will still be 75% of people around you who will just ruin it for you. SWToR is loyal to Star Wars design concerning its equipment appearance.

 

3. What bothers me too is that every guy in the WoW universe now flies a dragon. Dragons were quite rare in Warcraft universe. That is the reason why Zuluhed the Whacked and his Dragonmaw clan was so treasured in the Horde even though the clan was relatively small. Thanks a lot Bioware for NOT leting us fly on the planets (except for taxi). If everyone just flew around, it would ruin the experience for me because speeders are just too important part of Star Wars for me. Just as the ground mounts were important in WoW.

 

4. I think that Cross-server LFD and LFR system ruined WoW. Why? Because people needed to be polite when in groups. If they behaved like angry children and ninja items, they would go to ignore list and soon they would not have anyone to group with. With cross-server LFD, you just never meet the same person again. Why not to steal every drop for myself and yell at everyone what <insert_obscene_word>s they are. I was very happy when Bioware said that while they plan to implement LFG sytem, they will NOT make it cross-server.

 

Does SWToR have bad sides? Oh, yes, definately yes. There are bugs, threre is currently no possibility to customize UI etc.. But I can live with a few bugs knowing that the game is only one month old. Especially when I see that the bugs are being removed with every patch.

 

Is WoW a bad game? No, it is not. But it became something different than it used to be. It is no longer the game where mighty knights in steel armor and long-bearded wizards fight strong Horde of evil greenskins. It is no longer the game with gloomy and horror-like environment. It is not the game I want to play. It became a game with quests filled with of joke lines (some of the jokes are actually pretty good) where Pandas will roam the world under a happy rainbow of shining colors that people have on their armor (well, Pandarens are not implemented yet, but we all saw the new expansion trailer)

 

I agree with the OP when comparing to vanila. But the post I quoted is why I play SWTOR now

As opposed to the current state where people sit around Fleet for an hour trying to get a group. Yeah it's a real improvement. Try giving the majority of players a bit more credit than believing that a cross-server FP finder would turn the majority of them into ninja bastards.

 

Maybe you forgot the most important reason people got tired of WoW: it's been around since late 2004. It's rather difficult to keep a game interesting for so long. Bioware is already learning this as there are increasing complaints from players about the lack of content in swtor and its only been out over 2 months.

 

You misunderstood. I support the LFG system. But only as it stays withing one server. It is the cross server part that I am criticising. I would also prefer to have a LFG system that will enable you to join FP from anywhere without forcing you to stay within fleet. But this has already been promised by Bioware to be implemented.

 

As for giving players more credit... I only give credit where it is due. And I must honestly say, then when playing WoW this was my experience: In every 3rd LFD someone ninjaed at least one item. In every single one LFR, someone ninjaed one or more items for himself or for his guildmates. No, I will not have any faith in player community after this... I simply can't.

This is a fail post because comparing something like WoW to SWTOR isn't wrong because a lot of the things WoW pioneered later games that launch also implemented. Rift has cross server PvP and LFG and at least some WoW comparison. I started playing WoW in beta. So the comparison isn't that this game as done these things in 10years. It is this things have become the new standard and BW is dragging there feet on them.

 

Just because the largest subscriber base game does it, does not mean that its the new standard. Frankly many of the features that WoW put in where due to an instant gratification play style of their player base. Not because they where actually features that are a must have. Sorry but Cross-Server LFG ruined server community. MoDs and other features also cause community issues and honestly a game is better without those issues.

 

Most of the features that WoW has come out with sense BC, have done more to destroy the community on the servers then actually make the game challenging and fun to play. Most of the features dint actually fix anything or make content worth doing. All they did was make it easier for more people to do said content. Used to be having a full set of tier gear meant something, not just to you but to the players that saw you in it. They knew you had to put in the time and effort to acquire it and you kept it in your bank even after getting the next tier up.

 

Sorry making a game where everybody can get everything is not a good standard to emulate. It is not poor design on the games part that folks are not willing to do what is necessary to achieve what other players in the game have. It is the fault of the player for being lazy.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Lerthan
Corrected a glarring mistake in spelling.

You misunderstood. I support the LFG system. But only as it stays withing one server. It is the cross server part that I am criticising. I would also prefer to have a LFG system that will enable you to join FP from anywhere without forcing you to stay within fleet. But this has already been promised by Bioware to be implemented.

 

As for giving players more credit... I only give credit where it is due. And I must honestly say, then when playing WoW this was my experience: In every 3rd LFD someone ninjaed at least one item. In every single one LFR, someone ninjaed one or more items for himself or for his guildmates. No, I will not have any faith in player community after this... I simply can't.

 

Notice it is a "tool".

 

You can choose to use it or not.

 

FYI people can't directly ninja loot anymore with the default loot setting anyway.

 

Nothing is stopping Bioware from creating a LFD that implements a reputation system where group members can mark a ninja as such and that reputation follows him/her.

Do we really need more of these threads?

I played WoW during vanilla and still complain why SWTOR sucks at moment. I think it's legit to compare games how they are now and not with how they where at launch. Look RIFT got that right at release, so why can't SWTOR with a much higher budget not get that many features into there game.

 

Oh, and I had fun with all the PvP at crossroads and Southshore, while I miss meeting the opposite faction while levelling in SWTOR. I roll for a reason on a PvP server!

I still have my wow account....but I rarely play it is almost impossible to go back to that boring pop culture reference after what I have experienced in TOR .

You misunderstood. I support the LFG system. But only as it stays withing one server. It is the cross server part that I am criticising. I would also prefer to have a LFG system that will enable you to join FP from anywhere without forcing you to stay within fleet. But this has already been promised by Bioware to be implemented.

 

As for giving players more credit... I only give credit where it is due. And I must honestly say, then when playing WoW this was my experience: In every 3rd LFD someone ninjaed at least one item. In every single one LFR, someone ninjaed one or more items for himself or for his guildmates. No, I will not have any faith in player community after this... I simply can't.

 

Take that low pop servers (almost all of them), sucks to be you.

 

Having stopped playing wow late last year and having played (and still play) rift I can safely say this hasn't been my experience with the tool. I suspect hyperbole.

How about compare TOR to its actual competition? Which would be current WoW. Both games cost the same amount of money. For you $15 a month, you're getting 1,000x more content in WoW RIGHT NOW than you got 7 years ago when it came out.

 

So, what's the point of this topic?

Pretty horrible comparison. TOR has a hard time standing up to current WoW so you go back 8 years to make the game look better? WoW was still quite a step above a lot of its competition at the time and moved the genre in a new direction.

 

Nobody wants 8 years of content from TOR at launch -- that's a strawman -- but they do expect the features that have been implemented over the years to be in the game. Rift did it pretty much, so you're saying BioWare and EA couldn't? I'd say Rift probably even set the bar for what a new game's default UI should aspire to.

Just because the largest subscriber base game does it, does not mean that its the new standard.

 

You wanna run that by me again?

 

The most popular product on the market isn't a good indicator of what's the new standard?

 

Is it at least a good indicator of what the market wants or are all those players playing at gun point?

 

Why aren't they playing swtor instead I wonder.

Notice it is a "tool".

 

You can choose to use it or not.

 

FYI people can't directly ninja loot anymore with the default loot setting anyway.

 

Nothing is stopping Bioware from creating a LFD that implements a reputation system where group members can mark a ninja as such and that reputation follows him/her.

 

That is actually not true. You cannot choose to use it. You are forced to use it because it became practically impossible to gather a party now (unless you promise them achievement run or something like that). Unless you group up with guild mates, there is very little chance that you will gather a group by using general chat within reasonable ammount of time. Not to mention that you will be flamed by whispers like "Use LFG n00b, stop spamming chat!".

Its funny when people try and compare Swtor release to WOW release, cuz u know, wow was released how many years ago? U have to compare the current state of games, regardless of being newly released or not. Like cmon, how dumb do u think game companies are lol.

 

"Herp derp, But vanilla Swtor (released in late 2011) is better then vanilla WoW (released in late 2004)."

 

LOL cmon man, cmon. If MMO "makers" thrive to be better then the release of a 2004 game, instead of trying to be better then the 7 years of improving that went into it, then they have no buisiness in MMO's (a.k.a Bioware).

 

The Arab Spring hasn't yielded countries as prosperous as those that are already established... therefor they are utter failures. By your logic Libya and Egypt should now be doing as well as the US, Germany or Russia. You sir, make an stupid argument. You absolutely cannot compare the games as when they both came out, but you unequivocally cannot compare them in their current states.

Im at the point now where im sick of both of them.