Tanks can control aggro in PVE. Kephess doesn't go a "Oooh! A Commando!" Makes a huge difference in the viability of certain classes.

I spat out my coffee in laughter while reading your post. Maybe a RWZ tactic would be to bring along a commando that attracts the flying monkeys. On a serious note though you as a guild could encourage players to roll a class that's wanted for RWZ. It has happened that the PvE guild I'm in wanted tanks, healers and dps of different flavor for the ops and they simply had a few people reroll for more options. Maybe it isn't viable today with the longer WH grind but with 1.6 an optimized WH player might be just as good to bring along as an EWH geared player.

A few issues with your comparison:

 

1) The difficulty of encounters in PVE are at a set level. The best group may clear it faster, with more HP, etc, but the difficulty level for them isn't different than guilds that can't clear it at all. In PVP, the skill of your opponents isn't at one set level. There is no way to know if your regulars will make up for the lower skill of the subs.

 

2) Class composition isn't important for many PVE encounters. Pretty much as long as you don't have a DPS operative you're fine. Those that do matter are more along the lines of proper distribution of ranged and melee. In ranked PVP, you better have a carnage mara, you better have a bubble sorc, you better have an op healer, you better have a tanky sin, etc.

 

3) Gear takes longer to get in PVP. With the abundance of crafters for 63 level modification items and the abundance of black hole comms, it's not hard to find people in all augmented 61/63 gear. Skill can make up for a lack of gear in PVE by executing flawlessly on fight mechanics. PVP isn't quite as forgiving when the other team is BiS. PVE content can also be outgeared by some to make up for a lack of gear on another. In fact, since operations drop better gear than they are targeted for (have to be able to beat it to get the gear in the first place), after 1 or 2 clears you already outgear the difficulty. In PVP, the opponent always has the possibility to have the exact same gear as you do.

 

4) Ranked PVP requires strict coordination and focus firing. I'm not saying PVE doesn't, but you know your role and the fight isn't going to change from what it always is. Calling out targets and adapting to an opponent that thinks requires the whole team to be on the same page.

 

Can you win ranked warzones without everything I mentioned? Sure, but not against the best teams which is why many of the teams don't queue or at least don't queue without their usual teams.

You did a lot better describing why its hard to get 8 players for rated than I did.

Can you win ranked warzones without everything I mentioned? Sure, but not against the best teams which is why many of the teams don't queue or at least don't queue without their usual teams.

See my previous post. Would it be viable to bring an optimized WH player that doesn't take too much effort to get in 1.6?

As for the group synergy my solution to that would be if Bioware let people do training matches against opponents of your liking. Without rewards of course to prevent win trading. That way you could get a feel for everyone in your ops and not half of it in normal warzones against opponents of varying quality.

I spat out my coffee in laughter while reading your post. Maybe a RWZ tactic would be to bring along a commando that attracts the flying monkeys. On a serious note though you as a guild could encourage players to roll a class that's wanted for RWZ. It has happened that the PvE guild I'm in wanted tanks, healers and dps of different flavor for the ops and they simply had a few people reroll for more options. Maybe it isn't viable today with the longer WH grind but with 1.6 an optimized WH player might be just as good to bring along as an EWH geared player.

People do roll toons specifically for their viability in ranked. Still doesn't change the fact that there are fewer classes and specs that are viable for ranked, than there are that are viable for raids. Add to that, having the perfect comp doesn't mean anything if you don't have anyone queueing against you. When you think about it, getting ranked WZs working takes 2x as much work as getting a perfect 16 man group for NiMEC (when 8 of the people aren't in your guild), and people only try do that once a week... And even if you do get all those pieces together, the same 2 teams don't want to face each other 10x in a row. Thus the presence of premades in non-ranked WZs....

See my previous post. Would it be viable to bring an optimized WH player that doesn't take too much effort to get in 1.6?

 

As for the group synergy my solution to that would be if Bioware let people do training matches against opponents of your liking. Without rewards of course to prevent win trading. That way you could get a feel for everyone in your ops and not half of it in normal warzones against opponents of varying quality.

Bluntly, no. Maybe for the first week or two, but those top teams have their comms maxed and will be fully decked out by then. BiS within 3-4 weeks most likely.

I think everyone would like to see 8v8 training grounds tbh. No rewards, no problems. It could also allow us to setup some of our own tournaments....

Bluntly, no. Maybe for the first week or two, but those top teams have their comms maxed and will be fully decked out by then. BiS within 3-4 weeks most likely.

 

I think everyone would like to see 8v8 training grounds tbh. No rewards, no problems. It could also allow us to setup some of our own tournaments....

8v8 training grounds would be awesome. No rating gain/loss, no comms. Just actual practice in the existing WZ settings.

Bluntly, no. Maybe for the first week or two, but those top teams have their comms maxed and will be fully decked out by then. BiS within 3-4 weeks most likely.

 

I think everyone would like to see 8v8 training grounds tbh. No rewards, no problems. It could also allow us to setup some of our own tournaments....

It seems RWZ is doomed in the long run then. Unless matchmaking algorithms ensure people still not BiS wont face those who are and have a much higher rating. I thought that was the point of the rating system, that you wont meet teams that clearly are way above your skill level at the moment.

I think everyone would like to see 8v8 training grounds tbh. No rewards, no problems. It could also allow us to setup some of our own tournaments....

This would be sweet. One of the best things I took from playing the BF series on PC was having your own server and being able to go through tactics, figuring out how much time it takes to get from A to B and what not.

A training ground where you could figure things like this out would be great and a lot of teams would partake in them.

yeh, u have a lot of fun...

Go grab ur WH friends and go to normal warzones kill recruit geared players...

Pro pvp players go to Ranked, not to normal warzones

 

BB dude.

your uneducated talk is showing...its really bad(stands out like back-peddlers in wzs)

I play ranked...(one of the best teams on server) and when the team isnt on... I play regs

I grab friends to join me to help eliminate a player like you from being on my team (cuz i know your a bad...you have no clue about top end pvp) but unlike ranked 4 of the players on my team could end up being you...

This would be sweet. One of the best things I took from playing the BF series on PC was having your own server and being able to go through tactics, figuring out how much time it takes to get from A to B and what not.

 

A training ground where you could figure things like this out would be great and a lot of teams would partake in them.

I would love this....so many times iv wanted to do guild on guild pvp....but didnt want people to think we were win trading...

I LOVE THIS IDEA!!!

I find it kind of strange that it's so hard to find 8 regular people for RWZ and maybe 2-4 substitutes. For some strange reasons I've joined PvE guilds on both factions even though I mostly PvP. There are some guys PvPing though and we have fun but their primary focus is end game raiding. The new NM mode is not forgiving but they never have trouble filling their ranks with competent people. They have a core of 8 players doing endgame raiding. They also have 4 extras with proper gear and ok skill that can sub in for endgame ops if required. They even kick out a regular raider in favor for an extra so they don't feel left out.

 

Is there a problem with PvP guilds attitude where you already have to be the best of the best to join? If you take in extras and train them you never let them join your RWZ team or what's the deal?

 

Note that this post may not be aimed at you since it seems you sub for other guilds. But you may shine some light on why these guilds you sub for have trouble filling their ranks.

You can't compare finding a good PvE player to finding a good PvPer, Finding someone that can go do a HM FP is finding someone that did it before and thats not even needed. The AI does not change and can be discussed prior to each little fight. A PvPer needs more skills than a average PvE player and to have a shot against Ranked teams should have a good synergy with the group they are playing with.

I could go on your but analogy leads me to be leave it's a waste of time.

It seems RWZ is doomed in the long run then. Unless matchmaking algorithms ensure people still not BiS wont face those who are and have a much higher rating. I thought that was the point of the rating system, that you wont meet teams that clearly are way above your skill level at the moment.

It's the catch 22 of the system right now. Since not many queue up, you're forced to play against much higher rated teams. This makes it so teams do not want to queue up since they will lose fairly handily. If more teams did queue up, however, you would have a larger pool and matchmaking would actually function as it is supposed to. I'd be interested to see if a server scheduled a 5 hour block of time for everyone to queue and got buy in from 15-20 teams of different ratings how effective matchmaking actually is.

If I had a top rated team, however, I still wouldn't queue with subs as you would be matched with the higher ranked teams and be outmatched more than likely. The only way to really get RWZs popping is to lower the requirement of players. 5v5 or 6v6 would make for some interesting battles, even on the current maps.

I see the frustration in going up against premades in non ranked WZs. Indeed they are much harder to take on, but for me, that makes the win sweeter.

Premades have the advantage of voice and a sense of chemistry. When going alone, I welcome the challenge, and I think players should warm up to it too. I've played way way too many WZs on a bunch of characters. All it takes are just a few simple tricks that do not require voice chat.

For one, players need to know their role in a given WZ, and they need to know their teammates role. Utilize your role right, and help your teammates utilize theirs, and you're on the right track for now.

Another thing is coordination. People have got to type - it doesn't take much effort and I promise you the keyboard does not bite. For example, something like "3 inc snow" in Alderaan takes almost no effort, and could be the difference in saving a node. As communication kicked in there, execution is another thing. In a situation like that, help needs to arrive quick. It's all about awareness - knowing what's going on around you.

A huge issue is this: Players have got to work together. If things don't go your way, the sky is not falling. People need to focus on helping eachother out and not lashing out their unnecessary frustration. I might be calling out quite a number of people here, but referring to people as "baddies" or any other term that would bring down players is such a narrow minded view of things, and does absolutely nothing to help your winning percentage. Those kinds of players also attract more loses, and the funny thing is they're oblivious to it.

So to the point, I don't believe Bioware should be doing anything about premades in non ranked WZs. They can be beaten - and like any match, wins should not be expected on a silver platter. Work together, play hard, and try to view it as fun and challenging.

I see the frustration in going up against premades in non ranked WZs. Indeed they are much harder to take on, but for me, that makes the win sweeter.

 

Premades have the advantage of voice and a sense of chemistry. When going alone, I welcome the challenge, and I think players should warm up to it too. I've played way way too many WZs on a bunch of characters. All it takes are just a few simple tricks that do not require voice chat.

 

For one, players need to know their role in a given WZ, and they need to know their teammates role. Utilize your role right, and help your teammates utilize theirs, and you're on the right track for now.

 

Another thing is coordination. People have got to type - it doesn't take much effort and I promise you the keyboard does not bite. For example, something like "3 inc snow" in Alderaan takes almost no effort, and could be the difference in saving a node. As communication kicked in there, execution is another thing. In a situation like that, help needs to arrive quick. It's all about awareness - knowing what's going on around you.

 

A huge issue is this: Players have got to work together. If things don't go your way, the sky is not falling. People need to focus on helping eachother out and not lashing out their unnecessary frustration. I might be calling out quite a number of people here, but referring to people as "baddies" or any other term that would bring down players is such a narrow minded view of things, and does absolutely nothing to help your winning percentage. Those kinds of players also attract more loses, and the funny thing is they're oblivious to it.

 

So to the point, I don't believe Bioware should be doing anything about premades in non ranked WZs. They can be beaten - and like any match, wins should not be expected on a silver platter. Work together, play hard, and try to view it as fun and challenging.

Well said

<------Glad to add another "who gets it" to the fam....

I see the frustration in going up against premades in non ranked WZs. Indeed they are much harder to take on, but for me, that makes the win sweeter.

 

Premades have the advantage of voice and a sense of chemistry. When going alone, I welcome the challenge, and I think players should warm up to it too. I've played way way too many WZs on a bunch of characters. All it takes are just a few simple tricks that do not require voice chat.

 

For one, players need to know their role in a given WZ, and they need to know their teammates role. Utilize your role right, and help your teammates utilize theirs, and you're on the right track for now.

 

Another thing is coordination. People have got to type - it doesn't take much effort and I promise you the keyboard does not bite. For example, something like "3 inc snow" in Alderaan takes almost no effort, and could be the difference in saving a node. As communication kicked in there, execution is another thing. In a situation like that, help needs to arrive quick. It's all about awareness - knowing what's going on around you.

 

A huge issue is this: Players have got to work together. If things don't go your way, the sky is not falling. People need to focus on helping eachother out and not lashing out their unnecessary frustration. I might be calling out quite a number of people here, but referring to people as "baddies" or any other term that would bring down players is such a narrow minded view of things, and does absolutely nothing to help your winning percentage. Those kinds of players also attract more loses, and the funny thing is they're oblivious to it.

 

So to the point, I don't believe Bioware should be doing anything about premades in non ranked WZs. They can be beaten - and like any match, wins should not be expected on a silver platter. Work together, play hard, and try to view it as fun and challenging.

<------Glad to add another "who gets it" to the fam....

Makes me think of that Jagermeister commercial they have out now where they add someone new to the table.

I have an interesting Idea, How about rank expertise ? If players are in any group, if the total expertise in their groups are over certain number, they will be in ranked Wz. So no matter how experience, they will need to tone down the high gears.

Gear is being nerfed in 1.6, so no need for that

I see the frustration in going up against premades in non ranked WZs. Indeed they are much harder to take on, but for me, that makes the win sweeter.

 

So to the point, I don't believe Bioware should be doing anything about premades in non ranked WZs. They can be beaten - and like any match, wins should not be expected on a silver platter. Work together, play hard, and try to view it as fun and challenging.

i agree, sort of. back when BM was top gear, pugs vs premades could be fun and pugs could even win vs premades.

gear gap is too large now. 6 people from a PVP guild all min/maxed top gear vs a pug with half the team undergeared is always just a streamroll. we'll see how gear changes in 1.6 change things. BWs working on better match making system so that is when things will actually improve for most people.

i agree, sort of. back when BM was top gear, pugs vs premades could be fun and pugs could even win vs premades.

 

gear gap is too large now. 6 people from a PVP guild all min/maxed top gear vs a pug with half the team undergeared is always just a streamroll. we'll see how gear changes in 1.6 change things. BWs working on better match making system so that is when things will actually improve for most people.

What?

What?

not sure if youre playing dumb or really dont know....

is quite common and not really hard to do. like on sat and sundays on shadowlands, a number of pvp guilds will make a couple 4 man groups and also have a bunch solo que so they can end up with more than 4 in a WZ.

Makes me think of that Jagermeister commercial they have out now where they add someone new to the table.

Dude get out of my head!!!

/cheers

not sure if youre playing dumb or really dont know....

 

is quite common and not really hard to do. like on sat and sundays on shadowlands, a number of pvp guilds will make a couple 4 man groups and also have a bunch solo que so they can end up with more than 4 in a WZ.

Move to a server with more frequent pops then. I never see this happen on PoT5. I guess we just have players that are good enough that this type of thing isn't necessary. If you are playing at weird times, then sure, it would be really easy to do this, but otherwise you'd probably spend more time waiting for a warzone that everyone gets in than actually playing the game.

Gear is being nerfed in 1.6, so no need for that

Uhm... dont see your point. The idea is to prevent Pro farmming Casual. By control the total expertise they could have, we can control the gap. Event if the WH gear will be nerf, the gap will still be there for Pro to gang on New/Casual player

Move to a server with more frequent pops then. I never see this happen on PoT5. I guess we just have players that are good enough that this type of thing isn't necessary. If you are playing at weird times, then sure, it would be really easy to do this, but otherwise you'd probably spend more time waiting for a warzone that everyone gets in than actually playing the game.

it isnt anything new, has been a common thing since launch. like i said, its mainly on sat and sundays when they have lots of people on. it has nothing to do with having "good players". they are farming comms and getting weeklys done for alts and for guildmates who may not have time to play alot durring the week. im not saying is a good or bad thing, just what goes on and with larger gear gap it cuases pugs to get steamrolled more than it used to.

smaller gear gap plus better matchmaking system should fix things so few WZs will just be total steamrolls and will at least have matches that are competitive.