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The Rise of Skywalker (( Spoliers ))


Tilvius

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I haven't seen the 1998 (I guess) Disney's animated MU LAN, I was interested neither about a certain ... MU LAN and I ain't into animated movies.

 

I criticized quite a lot Disney's Star Wars Trilogy, therefore it's a ... naïve thought (to put it diplomatically) the idea that I am a Disney's paid troll or whatever.

 

I watched that very MU LAN in a Greek theater last month due to simple curiosity; I wanted to compare that movie with the ... errrh..., movies of the Disney's SW Trilogy and I was interested to find out how a US Corporation that had delivered such a SW ... catastrophe, would deal with an epic movie about Imperial China; I went to watch a childish and naïve movie, another awful movie and I surprisingly watched an awesome one!!

I realized that MU LAN is a great movie from every aspect and I decided to write about all that; that's all.

I insist too about the -quite obvious- fact that the 2020 MU LAN film is -essentially- a Star Wars movie, in fact a greatest one; no lightsabers of course, however there is something quite similar to the essence etc. of the SW Force concept and ... much more!

 

You are such a fanatic for the 2020 Mulan but do not know that it is a live action adaptation of the 1998 Disney animated film Mulan, which itself is based upon the Chinese folklore "The Ballad of Mulan"? Do you also not know that much of the inspiration for Star Wars came from George Lucas's love of Akira Kurosawa's films from the 1950's? Specifically The Hidden Fortress (1958), for which Lucas received some criticism for what appears to be shot-for-shot reproductions from The Hidden Fortress. The plot of The Hidden Fortress also heavily inspired the plot for The Phantom Menace (1999).

 

 

Since you are so ... talkative, opinionated and inexplicably irritated, could you please inform us (e.g. at the "Off Topic" sub-section of the "General Discussion" Section or wherever you like) what irritates you so much about that very film?!? Have you watched it or not after all?

I do not think the problem is really about your love of a film that you seem to know relatively little about, or your drawing comparisons between a film based upon Chinese folklore and a series that was inspired by Japanese culture, but more to do with your spamming the boards with pseudo-intellectual analyses that are more fluff than substance.

 

Do as was suggested. Write a review, in the appropriate section, and in it state your case, make some comparisons, draw your conclusions, show how Mulan (2020) is a Star Wars film. Maybe do some research on Akira Kurosawa, their work, their films, and how that body of work inspired and informed George Lucas.

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I haven't seen the 1998 (I guess) Disney's animated MU LAN, I was interested neither about a certain ... MU LAN and I ain't into animated movies.

 

I criticized quite a lot Disney's Star Wars Trilogy, therefore it's a ... naïve thought (to put it diplomatically) the idea that I am a Disney's paid troll or whatever.

 

I watched that very MU LAN in a Greek theater last month due to simple curiosity; I wanted to compare that movie with the ... errrh..., movies of the Disney's SW Trilogy and I was interested to find out how a US Corporation that had delivered such a SW ... catastrophe, would deal with an epic movie about Imperial China; I went to watch a childish and naïve movie, another awful movie and I surprisingly watched an awesome one!!

I realized that MU LAN is a great movie from every aspect and I decided to write about all that; that's all.

I insist too about the -quite obvious- fact that the 2020 MU LAN film is -essentially- a Star Wars movie, in fact a greatest one; no lightsabers of course, however there is something quite similar to the essence etc. of the SW Force concept and ... much more!

 

Since you are so ... talkative, opinionated and inexplicably irritated, could you please inform us (e.g. at the "Off Topic" sub-section of the "General Discussion" Section or wherever you like) what irritates you so much about that very film?!? Have you watched it or not after all?

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with Mulan, or any other non Star Wars film. Therein lies the irritant. When i come to a thread discussing The Rise of Skywalker, I hope to find content about that topic

 

Your post is completely off topic, in a rather bizarre fashion at that. There is an off topic forum already where you are more than welcome to gush about Mulan to your heart's content.

 

The forum rules and organization is there for a reason, it's simple courtesy. An off topic post/thread here and there isn't a big deal, but you seem determined to keep polluting other threads, for whatever reason.

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It has absolutely nothing to do with Mulan, or any other non Star Wars film. Therein lies the irritant. When I come to a thread discussing The Rise of Skywalker, I hope to find content about that topic.

 

Your post is completely off topic, in a rather bizarre fashion at that. There is an off topic forum already where you are more than welcome to gush about Mulan to your heart's content.

 

The forum rules and organization is there for a reason, it's simple courtesy. An off topic post/thread here and there isn't a big deal, but you seem determined to keep polluting other threads, for whatever reason.

 

(i) You answered my last question neither here nor there! I can fully understand the "not here" choice of yours but you could write something at the "Off topic" section of course... Like yes or nope.

However you did choose not to answer, you did choose the silence. For whatever reason.

 

 

When I come to a thread discussing The Rise of Skywalker, I hope to find content about that topic. ...

... An off topic post/thread here and there isn't a big deal, but you seem determined to keep polluting other threads, for whatever reason.

 

(ii) So, you did come to this Thread regarding "The Rise of Skywalker" at the end of September 2020, hoping to find content about the topic of the title.

Frankly I can buy it, it's a completely legitimate (and plausible) request. You have every right of course.

 

However that very Thread started at 12/19/2020 and it practically came to some conclusion after ... no less than 3 (three) months!! There was the Spoilers' issue, so I wrote down my first post here only back at ...12/25/2020 and the last post of mine at April 2020! Until then there were 47 posts and I had written almost (10) ten of them, no complaints at all. On the contrary an extensive conversation which had been followed by a remarkable number of Forum members. And an abundance of negative criticism (that was fair enough imho) towards Disney's SW Trilogy. No issues at all though, neither complaints nor suspicions or restrictions. Or trolling...

 

You came here in order to read about "The Rise of Skywalker"; you found just one off/topic post and forty seven (old) posts about that movie, however you decided to focus on the very last, unique off topic post.

After all I wrote down just one Off-Topic post here and one Off Topic post "there" at 9/26/2020. I also started another Thread by the title "Mulan is not just a great Star Wars movie' writing down only one-two posts, nothing more. By the way, nowadays I'd give the title "MU LAN was/is NOT JUST a great STAR WARS movie" which certainly is quite similar and seems to be more descriptive!

 

I myself too guess that "an off topic post/thread here and there isn't a big deal", that is your own, explicitly expressed, opinion also.

However this is sincere only with respect to me; you do obviously consider that "an off topic post/thread here and there" is a biggest deal, contradicting your own statement...

You keep going of course: "... but you seem determined to keep polluting other threads, for whatever reason." Well, I have written here just one post at 9/26, nothing more! You came just yesterday, 9/30, and you wrote a quoted post, very ... talkative and with a lot of irritation. In fact an unfair, offensive and toxic charge/provocation... I decided to reply and now you are coming back and you complain about my reply to your own post!! I guess that my reply to your own comment/post is the evidence that I seem keep determined to ... pollute (sic) other threads, ... for whatever reason.

Well, I had to make a choice between silence and speech! I do not apologize of course, however I do write a reply. No MU LAN references, no MU LAN/off topic "pollution", just a reply to your comment.

 

 

The essence of my reply is that:

a) attempts of pollution, bizarre motives and shady reasons have only to do with your baseless, self-contradictory and bizarre concerns.

b) I am pretty convinced that I have every right to inform the Forum members about something quite important and interesting, imho of course. By means of a unique post of course, nothing more! One unique post -and nothing more- out of respect to the Forum's members of course and the Forum itself.

c) the issue of the essential connection of a non-Star Wars movie with the Star Wars tradition is not an off topic issue. And it's well worth one unique post at least! So much that "The Rise of Skywalker" (not to mention "The ... Force ... Awakens" and ... "The last (almost literally!) Jedi") had too little to do with Star Wars!!

d) almost last but not least; dogmatic, hypocritic, obsessive, self-contradictory and nihilistic adherence and fixation to Rules of Organization of Speech, relevant Courtesies leading to essential restriction of speech and exchange of opinions (and all that ... "Orthodoxy") is way out of my tolerance!! To put it quite diplomatically... ;)

Why so?!? Because I am convinced that all that is a fine self-destructive way of thinking. One critically pathological pathway indeed.

 

And last but not least; I got (as we all did) the (implicit) permission to criticize Disney's awful SW movies (that took a gross-path from almost 2 billions to almost 1 billion dolllars...; the Force was with Star Wars!) and it's not only honest but also -and above all!!- creative to praise a Disney's awesome movie.

Hopefully I'm doing it pretty well... :cool: I'm doing my best anyways.

Edited by cunctatorg
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Bahhhh... :csw_shuttle:

 

You are such a fanatic for the 2020 Mulan but do not know that it is a live action adaptation of the 1998 Disney animated film Mulan, which itself is based upon the Chinese folklore "The Ballad of Mulan"? Do you also not know that much of the inspiration for Star Wars came from George Lucas' love of Akira Kurosawa's films from the 1950s? Specifically The Hidden Fortress (1958), for which Lucas received some criticism for what appears to be shot-for-shot reproductions from The Hidden Fortress. The plot of The Hidden Fortress also heavily inspired the plot for The Phantom Menace (1999).

 

Well, I did write (at the very beginning of the post of mine you do quote!) about the existence of the 1998 Disney animated film regarding that Chinese heroine.

Back then Disney had nothing to do with Star Wars, I wasn't (I repeat) anymore into animated films and I wasn't interested either to watch a certain Chinese legendary heroine ... Mulan or to watch a certain legendary Indian girl ... Pokahontas, another Disney's project too, me thinks. "Unfortunately", I watched a few years later the Zhang Yimou's Chinese movie "Hero" and I had been very pissed off: everything else was fine but its main idea/philosophy of the screenplay and such ... abhorrent to say the least. Anyways, that movie has been extremely honest...

That said, I had watched (with a lot of excitement!!) the legendary "Kung-Fu" tv-series from the early 70s -back then (1973-76 in Greece) I was very young but I had enjoyed it quite a lot!

Being so young back then, I had no idea that this tv-series had been a byproduct of the legendary "ping-pong diplomacy" and all that; no harm done! :p

 

To say the truth, who is that Japanese dude ... Akira Kurosawa?!? Where is "The Hidden Fortress" of his?!?

 

Jokes aside, I doubt your judgment;

firstly George Lucas' scope was way more advanced and ambitious than Akira Kurosawa's one when the greatest director had planned about "The Hidden Fortress", that magnificent film of his.

And secondly, I guess that the 1998 animated Disney's movie "Mulan" had been a huge (or remarkable) success whereas the 2020 Disney's masterpiece MU LAN is -for too many and serious reasons- a huge failure, almost a sacrifice of 200 million dollars and more that that. How is it then correct that there is a strongest connection between the two movies?

 

 

 

I do not think the problem is really about your love of a film that you seem to know relatively little about, or your drawing comparisons between a film based upon Chinese folklore and a series that was inspired by Japanese culture, but more to do with your spamming the boards with pseudo-intellectual analyses that are more fluff than substance.

 

Do as was suggested. Write a review, in the appropriate section, and in it state your case, make some comparisons, draw your conclusions, show how Mulan (2020) is a Star Wars film. Maybe do some research on Akira Kurosawa, their work, their films, and how that body of work inspired and informed George Lucas.

 

That seems to be quite a challenge, not to say a ... provocation!

My answer is: no way Jose!!

Not tomorrow that is!

 

The truth is that I have already more than enough to write down about the 2020 Disney's movie MU LAN. However there is a two-folded issue... , not to say a manifold's issue.

Both issues (that I am concerned about) are extremely critical, sharp and sensitive, they require a lot of responsibility and much more. Therefore the (way) "easier" one, the movie's profound review and such, demands a delicate, accurate and profound work; I already got "all" the needed ideas but I intend to write it down at a Microsoft Word document for starters; it's not about a walk in the countryside...

 

It is also true that I don't take very well the "Do as suggested" command/provocation, it's a permanent feature of mine not to take some orders well. Since the movie and the issues are very important to me, I'll pass but you will have to wait; I'll take my time and with two "good reasons"...

 

The harder issue is the function of the Art -and particularly the Star Wars cinematography- within the humanity, its interaction with the human situation during these very hard -and similarly mad- times.

If it wasn't for that, I'd approach the situation the same way I did with, say, the two "Godfather" masterpieces, "The silence of the lambs" (or "Hannibal") and Shakespeare or Dostoevsky or Beethoven or ... Bob Dylan's "One more cup of coffee" or Jacques Brel: I don't give a .... if people (and how many) are interested about and why, I only care to watch for myself, to be touched and to understand. As far as easy access to these masterpieces is guaranteed, everything else is of secondary importance to me.

Obviously, this isn't the case of the Star Wars from my point of view: here something extremely more important is at stake, that is my personal approach at least.

 

However I can do -and not just me- only too little, practically nothing... Meanwhile the circumstances are dire and utterly demanding, the opportunities and responsibilities beyond imagination, my time and energy limited, the madness of our times -and these days- vast and critical, the whole situation extremely complicated ... or worst.

Therefore I ought to be cautious and accurate; thus I'll take my time in order to play well my cards and all.

Edited by cunctatorg
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I was going to do a more in depth reply, but I decided screw it. I am not going to waste my time typing out a long reply. These three videos will show you that you do not know anything about the influences that informed George Lucas when creating Star Wars.

 

 

 

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The sequel trilogy was a total unmitigated disaster.TFA was ok but after TLJ ruined SW for many fans.

Rian Johnson and KK deliberately threw older fans under the bus to get to the new sjw generation of snowflakes.

Who weren't interested.

TROS was a mess from start to finish.Multiple reshoots,cast getting let go,money wasted all led to a hopeless rescue effort that was a 4 out of 10.The final insult to the OT fans.

Disney has royally ruined SW .The only reason the Mandalorian was good was because KK had nothing to do with it.

Everthing else she's done with SW she's ruined it with her box ticking,man hating sjw agenda ******** inserted into SW that was already diverse,had strong women in it already.

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TROS was a mess from start to finish.Multiple reshoots,cast getting let go,money wasted all led to a hopeless rescue effort that was a 4 out of 10.The final insult to the OT fans.

You realise that reshoots, cast being let go, blah blah blah blah blah, all of it is *totally* irrelevant, I hope. All that matters is the final result.

 

And for what it's worth (i.e. not really very much(1)), as an OT fan (er, I saw all three in cinemas at their respective releases(2), *and* I saw them all again many years later when GL released the enhanced versions(3)), I wasn't insulted at all by the third trilogy.

 

(1) It's all highly subjective, and therefore this whole thread is worth exactly as much as the paper it was written on. And yes, I'm aware that it wasn't written on paper. That's exactly the point.

 

(2) Star Wars(4) was one of a list of films that I went to the cinema in Tunbridge Wells to see with my father (just my father), thanks very much.

 

(3) For ... reasons, I ended up seeing those twice, once with my wife(5) and once with my colleagues. I was ... unconvinced by certain parts, notably the Wampa on Hoth. It added less than nothing to the whole sequence.

 

(4) All this "Episode IV: A New Hope" blither is exactly that, blither. The film was called Star Wars.

 

(5) The same one that I now call "the late Mrs Cynic".

 

Oh, and of course Han shot first. He shot first and he shot last, because Greedo didn't shoot at all. (The novelisation noted that the other patrons of the cantina went back to their drinks, and all of them were thinking that Greedo got what he deserved for not insisting that Han kept his hands where Greedo could see them.)

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The sequel trilogy was a total unmitigated disaster.TFA was ok but after TLJ ruined SW for many fans.

Rian Johnson and KK deliberately threw older fans under the bus to get to the new sjw generation of snowflakes.

Who weren't interested.

TROS was a mess from start to finish.Multiple reshoots,cast getting let go,money wasted all led to a hopeless rescue effort that was a 4 out of 10.The final insult to the OT fans.

Disney has royally ruined SW .The only reason the Mandalorian was good was because KK had nothing to do with it.

Everthing else she's done with SW she's ruined it with her box ticking,man hating sjw agenda ******** inserted into SW that was already diverse,had strong women in it already.

 

Sequel Trilogy is far from ideal. Tons of flaws but i disagree completly that it should've treated the OT cast as sacred cows. Nostalgia should be used sporadically, not drive the filmaking procesa. I enjoyed Luke's arc in Last Jedi and I view the backlash as little more than a tauntrum from old fans who wanted Luke to be a boring Gary Stu who can do no wrong, grow or question anything as a character

 

Also, name those example WITHIN the movie where "KK's man hating agenda" shows and is part of the plot.

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Sequel Trilogy is far from ideal. Tons of flaws but i disagree completly that it should've treated the OT cast as sacred cows. Nostalgia should be used sporadically, not drive the filmaking procesa. I enjoyed Luke's arc in Last Jedi and I view the backlash as little more than a tauntrum from old fans who wanted Luke to be a boring Gary Stu who can do no wrong, grow or question anything as a character

 

Also, name those example WITHIN the movie where "KK's man hating agenda" shows and is part of the plot.

 

You enjoyed Jake Skywalker?Really?LOL.

Examples of KK inserting her agenda are plenty.The absolute cucking of Luke Skywalker,denigrating him to being Luke Supertramp and wanking off a space manatee to get milk.His pathetic death.The way Finn and Poe where made into bumbling oafs,the piss poor treatment of Akbar and his death being given to Admiral gender studies purple hair.The whole **** show on the casino planet (capitalism bad,free the space horses good).Finn being saved by the woman because reasons.

I don't know anybody that likes this film and I can tell you I know a **** load of people who like SW.

Any question of KK's intention to sjw SW even more just have to look at her New Republic crap.Hopefully her contract doesn't get renewed and Favreau takes over.Then we can be done with her cluster**** that is Disney SW (Mandalorian and Rogue 1 excluded).

Edited by SentinelThain
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You enjoyed Jake Skywalker?Really?LOL.

Examples of KK inserting her agenda are plenty.The absolute cucking of Luke Skywalker,denigrating him to being Luke Supertramp and wanking off a space manatee to get milk.His pathetic death.The way Finn and Poe where made into bumbling oafs,the piss poor treatment of Akbar and his death being given to Admiral gender studies purple hair.The whole **** show on the casino planet (capitalism bad,free the space horses good).Finn being saved by the woman because reasons.

I don't know anybody that likes this film and I can tell you I know a **** load of people who like SW.

Any question of KK's intention to sjw SW even more just have to look at her New Republic crap.Hopefully her contract doesn't get renewed and Favreau takes over.Then we can be done with her cluster**** that is Disney SW (Mandalorian and Rogue 1 excluded).

 

You did not list examples you gave opinions about things you did not like. Then you capped it off with a No True Scotsman. Like so many "true Star Wars fans" who have vociferously expressed their dislike for the sequel trilogy you have presented your opinions as facts, you have offered nothing substantive, you disregard precedent, and show little to no respect for anyone who's opinion differs from your own. What is quite obvious is that, like so many others, these movies did not hold up to your headcanon. You, like many others, have created in your head an expectation of what Star Wars is, who these characters should be, and anything that does not meet to that exacting specification, and anyone who does not agree with your opinion, is to be derided and mocked. The problem is that nothing is going to align with your headcanon expectation.

 

The sequel movies are just as flawed as anything Lucas ever produced. And let us not forget what Lucas revealed as their original plan for the sequels during an interview for James Cameron's Story of Science Fiction. Yes George, let us turn Star Wars into Innerspace and go into the microscopic world of the Whills and dance with midi-chlorians. Everything about Star Wars is flawed. There were flaws in the first movie. There were ideas presented in the first movie that had to be retconnen in later movies due to a change in direction that created plot holes that fans are still trying to gloss over. Then there is the love-hate-love-still hate-acceptance relationship with the prequels. Have you forgotten how no "true Star Wars fan" liked the prequels when they were released? Twenty years later and nothing has changed. So you do not like the sequels. Oh well. You have 20+ years of fanboi nerd rage in line ahead of you. Next in line is someone who hates the colour of green used for the lightsabers in the prequels.

 

People like what they like and dislike what they dislike, and sometimes one's opinions and views on something change over time. There is no problem there. The problem is that people who dislike something feel that it is their mission to proclaim load and far their dislike, to convince anyone who's opinion is different to join their opinion, and to proclaim how wrong everyone is who does not agree with them by belittling and mocking them.

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You did not list examples you gave opinions about things you did not like. Then you capped it off with a No True Scotsman. Like so many "true Star Wars fans" who have vociferously expressed their dislike for the sequel trilogy you have presented your opinions as facts, you have offered nothing substantive, you disregard precedent, and show little to no respect for anyone who's opinion differs from your own. What is quite obvious is that, like so many others, these movies did not hold up to your headcanon. You, like many others, have created in your head an expectation of what Star Wars is, who these characters should be, and anything that does not meet to that exacting specification, and anyone who does not agree with your opinion, is to be derided and mocked. The problem is that nothing is going to align with your headcanon expectation.

 

The sequel movies are just as flawed as anything Lucas ever produced. And let us not forget what Lucas revealed as their original plan for the sequels during an interview for James Cameron's Story of Science Fiction. Yes George, let us turn Star Wars into Innerspace and go into the microscopic world of the Whills and dance with midi-chlorians. Everything about Star Wars is flawed. There were flaws in the first movie. There were ideas presented in the first movie that had to be retconnen in later movies due to a change in direction that created plot holes that fans are still trying to gloss over. Then there is the love-hate-love-still hate-acceptance relationship with the prequels. Have you forgotten how no "true Star Wars fan" liked the prequels when they were released? Twenty years later and nothing has changed. So you do not like the sequels. Oh well. You have 20+ years of fanboi nerd rage in line ahead of you. Next in line is someone who hates the colour of green used for the lightsabers in the prequels.

 

People like what they like and dislike what they dislike, and sometimes one's opinions and views on something change over time. There is no problem there. The problem is that people who dislike something feel that it is their mission to proclaim load and far their dislike, to convince anyone who's opinion is different to join their opinion, and to proclaim how wrong everyone is who does not agree with them by belittling and mocking them.

 

I don't really have a problem with the prequels.All have bad and good in them but still felt like SW (Jar Jar and the horrible cgi in the first two).Revenge of the Sith was a very good film and it probably should have been left at that.

Do something new,not a rehash.

The Last Jedi was a gamebreaker for me.I went to the cinema in the 70's and was hooked after seeing Star Wars.After I seen TLJ there was people actually booing at the screen,most where laughing at it.I've never left the cinema enraged at a movie but I was with that.

The fall out after it dropped,the calling fans man babies,phobes and bigots because they didn't like it was a huge mistake for me.I've supported SW with my money on games,books and dvd's for 40 years,so yeah I'm invested in it.

I just felt it was a huge FU to people like me.

But,hey if you liked it power to you.

TROS was slightly better but after Rian Johnson had subverted our expectations there was not much Abrams could do.You do know there was a Lucas cut don't you?Apparently the head honchos at Disney seen it and it was so much better than the version we got.They where appalled that KK discarded it and she's been stopped from doing any future SW stuff.

Edited by SentinelThain
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