Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Lucas' Sidious, EU Sidious, & Vader Debate for Lore Junkies.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Lucas' Sidious, EU Sidious, & Vader Debate for Lore Junkies.

HARBINGERXIII's Avatar


HARBINGERXIII
12.15.2011 , 06:51 AM | #1
So dear forum members I would like to pose a question to you.

As the re-emergence of the versus threads has proven a certainty, a Vader vs. Revan thread is already posted. It seems likely that one featuring Sidious will not be far behind. So before that happens I would like to discuss some often cited bits of canon lore that will no doubt be used.

Now we all know that Lucas states that Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever. & we also know that Sidious in the EU, is for all intents & purposes the "force devil" to Luke's "force jesus". Something which some fans complain about, yet it is canon noe the less. So most largely except Sidious as the most powerful Sith.

Now Lucas states in his version of Star Wars, that Sidious isn't cloned he dies over Endor on the second deathstar. He also states that while Anakin had the potential to reach 200% of Sidious potential, because of the actions on Mustafar he only reaches about 80% of Sidious' force potential.

So which version of Sidious is Vader 80% as powerful as? Only the Lucas' version of Sidious, the EU version of Sidious, both versions of Sidious, neither as the canon has become to convuluted perhaps?

Just looking to see what everyone elses thought on the matters are, especially considering the versus threads are starting back up again.
Query: May I terminate the Meatbag now Master?

DrearyAngel's Avatar


DrearyAngel
12.15.2011 , 06:58 AM | #2
Well, since Lucas stated that for him Sidious died on the second death star, I believe he refers to the one from the movies when speaking Vader is at 80% compared to him...

HARBINGERXIII's Avatar


HARBINGERXIII
12.15.2011 , 07:09 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by DrearyAngel View Post
Well, since Lucas stated that for him Sidious died on the second death star, I believe he refers to the one from the movies when speaking Vader is at 80% compared to him...
So is the whole "Vader is 80% of Sidious power" a legitimate argument as it is always refrenced in Vader versus anyone debates?
Query: May I terminate the Meatbag now Master?

DrearyAngel's Avatar


DrearyAngel
12.15.2011 , 07:21 AM | #4
I think it's a hard debate... everyone can turn it the way they like the most, so there will always be people taking for good one or the other option... I do not remember if there are, but if we can find stats for both Vader and Revan and/or Sidious in some RPG manuals (like the D20 one) maybe that can be taken as a middle ground by everyone...

Anyway, Lucas is the creator of the character, so I think we should take his statement as the rule...

plandream's Avatar


plandream
12.15.2011 , 07:27 AM | #5
80% compared to Sidious from the movies.He lost his potential by losing limbs and not being mature enough when he did so(or something like that).

Anakin is supposed to be the "Saviour", the One that will bring balance.

He failed IMHO.

HARBINGERXIII's Avatar


HARBINGERXIII
12.15.2011 , 07:29 AM | #6
Possibly, however it seems that a lot of posters on these forums don't consider game mechanics canon. & if the do consider it canon, the consider it canon of the lowest caliber trumped by books, movies, interviews, etcetera. Which of course leads us back to the original problem the validity of the 80% quote as it relates to these versus threads.
Query: May I terminate the Meatbag now Master?

Journeyer's Avatar


Journeyer
12.15.2011 , 07:32 AM | #7
Vader did bring balance.

In a galaxy of 10,000 Jedi in absolute control of the galaxy and a non-existent dark side, he pulled the balance back. A little too far. And then balanced it back out by killing the emperor. And then screwed it up by dying? Oh, hm. Nvm.
I make useful, game-expanding suggestions.
Holorancor | Food! | Outfit Storage | My Career | Ultimate PvE Solution

plandream's Avatar


plandream
12.15.2011 , 07:36 AM | #8
OK.Wait:

Empire:Sidious,Vader
Republic:Luke,Yoda,Ben

3vs2 andin the end 1 vs 0.This is no balance.He messed up.

P.S. Leia counts?She is a force user.

DerMeister's Avatar


DerMeister
12.15.2011 , 07:37 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by plandream View Post
80% compared to Sidious from the movies.He lost his potential by losing limbs and not being mature enough when he did so(or something like that).

Anakin is supposed to be the "Saviour", the One that will bring balance.

He failed IMHO.
technically he did bring balance through the destruction of the Jedi (whose numbers vastly exceeded the 2 Sith by thousands, obviously I'd hope).

as for Sidious, the books do him more justice than the movies do in regards to his power. The reason he's theoretically the strongest is, because he is the culmination of thousands of years of studying and refining the Sith Lord's Dark Side craft according to the Rule of Two. Each Apprentice/Master is supposed to get stronger over time, while the master is the pure embodiment of the Dark Side of the Force. That for sure was Sidious, a empty black hole in the universe of the Force. That's why the Masters (Jedi) had no longer the ability to foresee accurately within the Force (even though they'd say the future is always moving, and so the ability to predict does not mean it will come to be kind of thing), because he sucks in the light and gives only the dark.

DrearyAngel's Avatar


DrearyAngel
12.15.2011 , 07:49 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by plandream View Post
OK.Wait:

Empire:Sidious,Vader
Republic:Luke,Yoda,Ben

3vs2 andin the end 1 vs 0.This is no balance.He messed up.

P.S. Leia counts?She is a force user.
Well, you know, two on the Republic side are old and tired, and the other one is almost not trained at all before ROJ...

On the other hand we have a beyond counting old embodiment of the Dark Side and his fearless and ruthless half-cyborg apprentice...

So, now, which side is unbalanced?