I never understood how Sidious could have lost either part of that duel. Supposedly he's waaaaaay powerful in the force, and don't force users augment their own physical abilities with the force? If we were talking terms of kotor then he's got like 12th tier Force Speed an Valor (or the dark side equivalent) and should have been toying with Mace pretty much the entire time. Like fighting a 6 year old.

Sidious didn't know how to counter Vapaad. All Sidious knew was Juyo. Vapaad was new to him, so he couldn't counter it. Ironic, though, Sidious got an apprentice who could not control his emotions.

Vader couldn't defeat Luke because he couldn't bring himself to hate Luke, because he represented the last of Padme Amidala. Vader was successful at goading Luke at their first encounter, because he had an edge -- Luke's passion for revenge for him "killing" his father.

However, if Vader killed his Master before he became his master, then he would have become Grandmaster of the Jedi Order, and Luke would be his padawan. While Leia would train under her mother as a competitent politician. However, Vader cannot control his emotions -- this became a weakness for Sidious.

I never understood how Sidious could have lost either part of that duel. Supposedly he's waaaaaay powerful in the force, and don't force users augment their own physical abilities with the force? If we were talking terms of kotor then he's got like 12th tier Force Speed an Valor (or the dark side equivalent) and should have been toying with Mace pretty much the entire time. Like fighting a 6 year old.

I see several people saying "I don't see how Mace Windu could have beaten Palpatine" quite a bit. One word: Shatterpoints

Read that and you can understand how it's not only possible; Windu probably would have went ahead and killed Palpatine.

Here's the short version answer:

Shatterpoints were a complex Force phenomenon, perceivable only by an unknown innate talent or immense focus and concentration on the part of the Force-user. Shatterpoints were akin to fault lines, and adept Force-users were able to perceive these faults through the Force, and influence them.

 

Eventually Mace realized that a number of shatterpoints connected with Anakin Skywalker, prior to Anakin's fall. Mace was also able to sense the Shatterpoint of Darth Sidious; his trust in Skywalker.[8]

 

I sometimes can see the weak places in an opponent—shatterpoints where the unbreakable can be broken. They can occur in individuals…and in events." ―Mace Windu[src]

....Palpatine was using the force not to much his lightsaber. Or at least thats what I remember someone bringing up in another topic.

No... He used his lightsaber over a full minute until it got knocked out of his hands and out the window.

If you look at the movie only, the total time of saber usage/lightning usage was actually about equal.

If Windu had defeated Palpatine then I believe Anakin would have attacked Windu and revealed everything, Windu then would have had to hold off Anakin's saber attacks while convincing him that everything he saw was manipulations to lead him to the dark side, after a while he would have succeeded in convincing Anakin.

Then upon investigating Palpatine's computer they would have found that he was responsible for the entire war, and then would have found the location of the seperatists on Mustafar, then I believe Obi-Wan would have been sent from Utapau to Mustafar in order to negotiate with the seperatist leaders in order to end the war, the revelation that Palpatine was in control of both sides would have convinced them to retreat.

After that the Jedi Council would have had to use the evidence gained from the chancellor's office in order to prove Palpatine's guilt. At which point I believe an election would have to be held in order to choose a new chancellor of the republic bringing in a new era of peace for the galaxy.

Vaapad or no, someone as strong as sidious should have had no problem with it. I ALWAYS thought that scene was literally sidious screwing around until he could get anakin to change sides.

Regardless of what lucas says, that's how I've always thought it was. I'm not even sure we can trust GL anymore with what's really going on in star wars.

No... He used his lightsaber over a full minute until it got knocked out of his hands and out the window.

 

If you look at the movie only, the total time of saber usage/lightning usage was actually about equal.

 

Thats not what I am saying what I am saying is that he was using mostly the force in the way of attacking, rather then his lightsaber.