It's not a bad thing in itself (except when your newbie DPS aggro two packs and run toward you), but it shows how well the game was tested.

Eh, I'm not against it if people are just running FPs for quick commendations.

 

 

It bothers me when people skip mobs, beat the flashpoint and complain about lack of content.

If you're level 50, chances are you're not going to get anything significant off trash mobs. You might get lucky and get a cool drop, but you'll probably get more out of the time saved to run another FP. I am pretty sure they purposely built the side routes so that people could skip trash if they wanted to.

Personally I always assumed it was deliberate

Personally I always assumed it was deliberate

 

I agree that the ability to skip them is there by design.

 

This just proves that if you hand a player any kind of option or freeom, the player wlll stick themselves in the eye with it and then complain that Bioware let them do it.

 

Seriously though. The average modern MMO player plays for reward gratification over actual embrace and enjoyment of the content. There is little appreciation to relax and embrace the experience... they just want to grind for quick rewads. So Bioware took the right approach (meeting the players needs), even though it enables players to further marginalize their in game experience. IMO, trash mobs should be ganked and killed because they are there. But most people (and well before this game very launched) want to rush rush rush through an instance. This is why I don't PUG in MMOs anymore. I don't need some weenie in the group constantly yelling "go GO GO" and prodding the tank with a cattle prod to pull.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Andryah

Eh, I'm not against it if people are just running FPs for quick commendations.

 

 

It bothers me when people skip mobs, beat the flashpoint and complain about lack of content.

 

Seriously you call trash pulls content? I can somewhat understand the mini bosses but skipping the trash to Kephaas just speeds up a run when your gear out alts and newbies. Its not like you have a real chance at wiping on the trash, you just want to save time on the run ur on. It's like saying all those mobs off to the side should be attacked before you attack the boss. Am gonna complete HM EC in one night regardless, am gonna complete HM LI in under 30 mins no matter what.

I agree that the 'gogogo' mentality does annoy me, and I usually want to clear a flashpoint for loot... but I wouldn't agree that trash counts as 'content'. I play this game for the story aspect, and I get irritated by the amount of grinding I have to do in higher levels, and with 'kill X number of these' quests. It's just dull repetition. I want them to add more story content, not throw more trash mobs in front of me that I have to plow through.

Its funny actually to hear all that cause as a tank I get yelled at no matter what do. I only run my daily fp for bh gear for alts. And you get told to speed up slow down and why didn't we skip this, the mini boss is a waste, why didn't we do a mini boss. I love the story but I've seen it a thousand times, but if its someones first time in there most nights I won't bother anyone who wants to take their time to see it the videos. But what I will do is slow a group down to a near snail pace so the go go go guy leaves or just gets completely pissed off. I don't need to be there, and most people are just inconsiderate. People just need more empathy in their life.

It's not a bad thing in itself (except when your newbie DPS aggro two packs and run toward you), but it shows how well the game was tested.

 

Sometimes, as I am leveling up, I prefer to kill everything in sight. But after hitting 50 and I just want the social runs or orange items that drop...if I had to kill everything in sight I would not run them. I think it was tested rather well.

I skip trash as much as I can, I want my comms and to be out of the flashpoint if you are level 50.. Sub 50, well depends if its a terrible group or not to go for maybe bonus boss/objectives.

I think its just strange world design. I mean on Skyrim I dont moan that I can get round some mobs, but they have good field of view, come to the sound of battle and sneaking is part of the game. With TOR it just seems like the allow us to sneak round mobs but only because they have a 45 agro zone, go into it and they attack, sneak round at 46 meters and your safe. Bad design and silly loot tables mean skipping them is easier than fighting them and fighting them is not worth the time.

I think its just strange world design. I mean on Skyrim I dont moan that I can get round some mobs, but they have good field of view, come to the sound of battle and sneaking is part of the game. With TOR it just seems like the allow us to sneak round mobs but only because they have a 45 agro zone, go into it and they attack, sneak round at 46 meters and your safe. Bad design and silly loot tables mean skipping them is easier than fighting them and fighting them is not worth the time.

 

This. I think this is important from a design perspective as well. If FP or ops trash had a statistically significant chance to drop half way decent items or tokens or high end crafting mats or SOMETHING it would be worth it to farm them. You would see people actually going in and doing FULL CLEARS. But the mobs are completely worthless, they don't drop ANYTHING useful. That was one that's really irked me about this game.

 

In a lot of other RPGs and MMOs random world mobs have a good chance to drop really useful things and mats (by really good chance I mean not virtually 0) and so you could just go out into the world and fight and kill and farm and it was fun. In SWTOR you can farm elites, sort of, but the reward really isn't THAT good and you don't have a chance at really cool stuff.

 

If I farm for 2 hours, just pull and kill and pull and kill I'd like it to be a comparable reward to if I spent two hours in some other aspect of the game, like PVP or FP or whatever. I'd like to see bigger daily quests that are more akin to "kill 200 x" and it changes everyday or there are multiples. Sometimes I just want to run around exploring and killing, not be bound to an instance or some small fragmented zone you have to take a spexcial speeder just to get to.

 

You want to get people off of Fleet? Make exploring and killing mobs worth it. If you had a daily quest that was "kill 200 jawas" or "kill 200 wampas" or sandpeople or whatever, it would get people out into the world, add A LITTLE variety (if they rotated) and encourage more open world PVP as well.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Durasturan

Eh, I'm not against it if people are just running FPs for quick commendations.

 

 

It bothers me when people skip mobs, beat the flashpoint and complain about lack of content.

 

Trash in FP's and Ops =/= content.

I'm fine with skipping trash but I dislike how it has become the norm to skip the bonus bosses .

Kill 'em all!

I leave it up to the tank. I don't get bothered by it either way.

 

However, I do think that making everything a speed run takes away from the overall experience especially with new players trying to get their bearings. I prefer to do all the bonus bosses because they have good loot and I don't mind grinding a little to keep my skills sharp.

 

What I don't like is skipping mini bosses. Trash you can keep, but mini bosses should be unskipable.

I find the option to do this very strange and can't honestly see it as by design.

 

Flashpoints should be about a certain level of game play and jumping round mobs just to kill the bosses removes this, though it is easier and far quicker and I completely understand why people do it.

 

I would prefer to see an option that makes playing the full flashpoint carefully and without a wipe rewarding, at the moment wipes mean nothing, dying means nothing and avoiding trash mobs is far quicker than killing them. There is no reward and anyone that has been through a few times would rather save the time. Sadly this can make for a very grindy event and not so much fun, but thats the current design.

I find the option to do this very strange and can't honestly see it as by design.

 

Thing is though, if they did not do it this way, giving the players the option, then the QQ in forum would be deafening from the fast food crowd. There is no way for Bioware to win on this.

 

I I would prefer to see an option that makes playing the full flashpoint carefully and without a wipe rewarding, at the moment wipes mean nothing, dying means nothing and avoiding trash mobs is far quicker than killing them. There is no reward and anyone that has been through a few times would rather save the time. Sadly this can make for a very grindy event and not so much fun, but thats the current design.

 

I think all they have to do is put a loot bonus on the encounter, where if you kill everything in the encounter, you get a lootable chest/locker at the end of the encounter. That way most of the go-go-go crowd would stop and take the time to kill everything, because above all else, they will always be loot fiends. Unfortunately, they are still going to hound and prod the poor tank to "go Faster NAO!!!"

Trash in FP's and Ops =/= content.

 

I don't think anybody is arguing that trash = content. It's the FPs and Ops that are the content. But if you blow through a FP in 10 minutes of play instead of 30, you consume the content much faster.

 

Personally I think the very small agro radius is the problem. It was bigger in beta. Then around the time of stress testing (those big weekend beta events) open-world areas reached critical masses of players where there just weren't enough mobs. So they increased spawn density and respawn rates. Then afterward, when the number of players returned to normal, there were too many mobs in certain areas and walking into a camp would pull something like 15 mobs onto you at once, so they reduced the agro radius to compensate.

 

However, the spawn density in flashpoints remained unchanged, so a lot of areas which were intended as chokepoints that players would have to fight through became skippable.

 

I've always preferred to go after objectives with a minimum of fighting trash mobs. Always, and still do. But when it becomes possible to skip boss fights and trivialize content to such an extent that you spend more time getting groups together for runs than running the content, it has swung too far away from gameplay and too far into metagame.

I don't think anybody is arguing that trash = content. It's the FPs and Ops that are the content. But if you blow through a FP in 10 minutes of play instead of 30, you consume the content much faster.

 

Exactly this.

Once upon a time there was a mexican fisherman...

I don't think anybody is arguing that trash = content. It's the FPs and Ops that are the content. But if you blow through a FP in 10 minutes of play instead of 30, you consume the content much faster.

 

That's not really an argument when the only content at the moment in the Flashpoints and Ops are bosses. So, if I am watching a TV show, and I skip the commercials, am I consuming the content too fast?

 

I honestly don't mind fighting bonus bosses and what not every now and then, but when I am on a 4/5 BH character and going for that last piece, the tionese belt that drops from a bonus boss really is not worth wasting the time killing X of Y, and destroying A of B.

 

As for trash, there is simply no reason to fight them. The only ones that pose even a slight threat are the ones on Kaon if your group cant figure out to CC the Mercs. I'd be all for fighting the trash if they had cool or threatening mechanics, but 90% of the time, trash comes down to tank pull them all in close and just unload your aoe for 5 seconds. It is usually more fun to try and find ways to get around something that to just fight it. That is a problem.

That's not really an argument when the only content at the moment in the Flashpoints and Ops are bosses. So, if I am watching a TV show, and I skip the commercials, am I consuming the content too fast?

 

I honestly don't mind fighting bonus bosses and what not every now and then, but when I am on a 4/5 BH character and going for that last piece, the tionese belt that drops from a bonus boss really is not worth wasting the time killing X of Y, and destroying A of B.

 

As for trash, there is simply no reason to fight them. The only ones that pose even a slight threat are the ones on Kaon if your group cant figure out to CC the Mercs. I'd be all for fighting the trash if they had cool or threatening mechanics, but 90% of the time, trash comes down to tank pull them all in close and just unload your aoe for 5 seconds. It is usually more fun to try and find ways to get around something that to just fight it. That is a problem.

 

I think a better analogy is buying an 1,000 page book and skipping to ending, then saying the book is too short.

As for trash, there is simply no reason to fight them.

 

Because it's fun.

 

The whole world doesn't revolve around winning virtual shinies.

That's not really an argument when the only content at the moment in the Flashpoints and Ops are bosses.

 

This is a false dichotomy. It isn't the case that bosses are the content and the trash isn't. The flashpoint is the content. The Op is the content. The whole thing, not just bosses. Sure, you can argue that the bosses are the only parts which are challenging--and you'd be wrong. Tthe first few trash pulls in Red Reaper are harder fights by far than any of the bosses in that instance. In EV, one of the "bosses" consists of waves of trash.

 

And anyway, players aren't just skipping trash, but skipping bosses as well. Then complaining that there isn't anything to do in the game.

 

Now as for me, I agree there isn't enough to do in the game, but I don't say that having spacebarred through every VO and skipped every trash pull.