You are asking people who play by the rules....and yes, they are rules governed by players for over 15 years now...to check ahead of time with other players? No, it is the players who chose to play outside the MMO rules who need to let others know they plan to need on items not their class.

 

I can not believe this is even open for debate. It has ALWAYS been this way from the beginning of MMORPGs. Just because a few players chose not to follow the rules because they chose to be greedy and have no respect for their fellow players, does not mean we need to bend over for these players. You roll on something not your class, your team mates should instantly kick you, report you (even if it doesn't do any good, I say report them anyway) and then instantly be placed on ignore.

 

There is no justification to what that player did. Period. No matter how many people want to defend it.

Dude.. chill out please. This game is all about the mods, not about the shells. To be more precise: an item usually has 4 (if a weapon 5) aspects to it. The armoring/hilt, the mod, the enhancement, (for weapons also the color crystal) and finally the shell of the armor itself. Which defines only it's look and by which classes it can be worn as well as how the armor in the armoring is calculated.

So basicly, if the mods of an item are an upgrade to a player, they have every right to claim need on. As said by others: if it is an upgrade and you are going to use the item, you have a right to claim it. And yes, mods make up a part of the item that can be interesting for people.

Now, of course, if you enter the group as a tank and roll for a clear DPS item or vice versa, you can expect some odd looks. As yes, I also still firmly stand behind the rule of courtesy that you roll need only for the role you entered the flashpoint in. And if you want to role on whatever that you arent clear on if someone else wants it, just check before clicking need.

Really, communication is key here. But you can't just say in this game that the old rules apply. Items are a lot more complex than armor type + major state to determine which class it is made for anymore. And as soon as you realise this, you will understand why people roll need in some situations and be a lot less upset over it.

First, let me just say that I don't group. Dislike group content in general. Only reason I can think of to group is if somehow the solo content gets so difficult that you need to group to get gear for the solo content.

1. Shells are irrelevant. Odds are even if it's an armor class you can use, you're STILL going to rip the mods out anyways and stick it in something orange you like the look of or is already augmented.

2. There is the possibility that it *is* actually the look of the shell in question you desire. If so, that is a COSMETIC improvement, not a functional improvement. The person that is wanting the mod should get preference over the person who is wanting the shell.

3. Enhancements are largely globally useful to all.

So, I say. Doesn't matter what armor classification the shell is. All that matters is the stats of the armoring/mods. if medium armor drops with high end low str. That should be needed by tank guardians. Sentinals would be wrong to need it over a tank guardian. (unless they are so badly equipped that said item still gives more str than what they currently have). Whereas if a medium armor drops with high str/low end, it's EXPECTED that DPS guardians will need it. It's every bit as good for them as it is for the sentinal, because... it's ONLY the mods that matter. Shells, in this game, are irrelevant.

But again, enhancements... well, you'll just get those (largely) through getting the mods/armorings that work for you.

edit: Personally, I'm sort of of the opinion the itemization system (and crafting, fwiw) in this game is completely fubared by the whole mod system. They should either go whole hog with it, or ditch it. At this point, the "ditch it" is probably off the table, which means go whole hog. FInished items simply shouldn't ever drop in group/raid content. Empty shells, mods, armorings, enhancements, etc. Either that or ability to roll piecemeal on object "parts", with the object automatically "pulled apart" if different people win different parts.

I guess it would depend on the situation. IE does the Sentinel in question already have modifiable armor of the type in question? If no then the shell and mods are worth a lot to them. The shell isn't always worthless. I'd be pretty upset if I needed that armor piece AND mods and had someone who can't/won't use the shell role need and take it away from me. Long run that impacts my game by possibly forcing me to stick with an outleveled green/blue armor piece because I wasn't able to get a moddable armor piece.

I think taking the attitude that all that counts are mods misses the point that the shell can be very useful and much needed by the class that the item is for too. Saying only mods count assumes that the class the item is for already has a modifiable version of that armor type when that may not be the case. Rolling "need" just for the mods potentially takes away both the mods AND the shell that the other guy needs, meaning that your (general your) need for mods is not equal to the other guy's.

At the end of the day the only metric I think one needs to use for deciding if they should need on an item is:

Player will be actively upgrading their current gear by use of the piece.

This does not mean "actively equipping the piece" that is in question because the same argument could be made for a sentinel that perhaps you will be putting those mods into a more desirable cosmetic shell yourself.

The only place where one would give an exception to this rule would be if the only upgrade comes via the enhancement i.e. an aim piece but that power/surge enhancement is an upgrade for a guardian-- in that case defer to an aim-user.

That said, if the enhancement would be an upgrade and there isn't someone in your group that uses that piece's mainstat then I would ask the group first but not think it wrong to need on it.

Dude.. chill out please. This game is all about the mods, not about the shells. To be more precise: an item usually has 4 (if a weapon 5) aspects to it. The armoring/hilt, the mod, the enhancement, (for weapons also the color crystal) and finally the shell of the armor itself. Which defines only it's look and by which classes it can be worn as well as how the armor in the armoring is calculated.

So basicly, if the mods of an item are an upgrade to a player, they have every right to claim need on. As said by others: if it is an upgrade and you are going to use the item, you have a right to claim it. And yes, mods make up a part of the item that can be interesting for people.

 

Now, of course, if you enter the group as a tank and roll for a clear DPS item or vice versa, you can expect some odd looks. As yes, I also still firmly stand behind the rule of courtesy that you roll need only for the role you entered the flashpoint in. And if you want to role on whatever that you arent clear on if someone else wants it, just check before clicking need.

 

Really, communication is key here. But you can't just say in this game that the old rules apply. Items are a lot more complex than armor type + major state to determine which class it is made for anymore. And as soon as you realise this, you will understand why people roll need in some situations and be a lot less upset over it.

Chill out? You would like that, wouldn't you? Be passive, let people do whatever they want to do...passive...this is the way of the new world. Being passive makes it so much easier for those who want to do you wrong to get away with it. I'm sorry, I'm just not the passive type.

Now, back on topic, medium armor for a Marauder will most always have Strength Heavy, Endurance Light Armoring, Strength/Critt/Power/Acc Mods, Endurance/Critt/Power Enhancements. A Tank needs Endurance Heavy Armoring, with Defence/Absorption. Why exactly would he need anything that drops for a Marauder again?

So a Jugg/Guard Tank needs mods out of that Medium Armor gear? I think not. And if a Jugg/Guard decided to queue up as a Tank when he is actually a DPS, then shame on him. He needed to queue up as his actual Role, not sly one in on the unsuspecting players. That in itself is a bunch of BS.

I'm sorry, but I'm sticking to my guns on everything I have said in this thread. There is no reason for a Heavy Armor Tank to be needing on Medium Armor gear. If he plans to do so, he needs to tell his group before doing so. Anything to the contrary is pure rudeness plain and simple, no if, and's or but's.

Now, back on topic, medium armor for a Marauder will most always have Strength Heavy, Endurance Light Armoring, Strength/Critt/Power/Acc Mods, Endurance/Critt/Power Enhancements. A Tank needs Endurance Heavy Armoring, with Defence/Absorption. Why exactly would he need anything that drops for a Marauder again?

 

So a Jugg/Guard Tank needs mods out of that Medium Armor gear? I think not. And if a Jugg/Guard decided to queue up as a Tank when he is actually a DPS, then shame on him. He needed to queue up as his actual Role, not sly one in on the unsuspecting players. That in itself is a bunch of BS.

2 things here:

- First, not all medium strength armour is strength heavy/endurance light. Nor does all of it have power/crit/surge/accuracy. There are some stupid armours in this game, include cunning/shield ones when NO class that uses cunning can even equip a shield.

- Second, while levelling a DPS Guardian can tank all content up to about CWG just by swapping into Soresu and equipping a shield. If a DPS Guardian is able and willing to tank for your group you should be glad that you actually GET a queue pop for the FP. You could easily have waiting hours for another one.

It is all about the mods and people will roll on whatever they think they need.

Yeah that’s why my sorcerer is DPS now and I've stop doing FP.

LOL at all this kvetching about flashpoint gear.

• If you want it, need it
  
• If you dont care, greed it
  

Seriously, people, it's flashpoint gear. We are all there to get the BH comms, who cares about the Tionese (worse than recruit!) and Columi (you are full columi within a week of dinging 50).

Just be glad the LFG popped for you, don't forget to spacebar, and don't aggro unnecessary pulls and we will get along fine.

Title says it all.

 

My question: what can be done about this? Of course I ignore the person immediately after the flashpoint so that I don't risk teaming up with a greedy a**, but is there much else any one can think of? I thought about starting to need on their heavy armor to drive the point home. It just seems so stupid, particularly with custom armor since they are going to drop it later on because medium custom armor isn't as good as heavy custom armor .

 

If there isn't any other viable alternative, can perhaps Bioware set up a system to where if you are a heavy armor, you can't use light and medium and so on and so forth. At least then the incentive is lessened greatly to have other players yank armor that you really could use.

Don't blame players but the badly designed linear mod system which Bioware have put in place.

It's not players fault that itemization is lacking in this game.

Yep seen this last night. Heavy and medium rolling need on Light armor just for 1 mod out of it.

Both us healers gated out after third time it happended.

Rolling need on an item for 1 mod isnt acceptable. Take your chance on a greed roll like everybody else does it a class doesnt need it.

Guardians can need a medium armor if it has the mods they're after. They're not strictly tanks. You can do the same wit heavy if you're in need of the mods. I used to roll for agent gloves from Boarding Party ages ago because it was the only way to get adept enhancement 24. Was funny watching raging agents but that's the way this game works. You must, sometimes, roll for other class' items in order to get best equipment in slot.

 

You're the one doing it wrong by putting people on the ignore lists for doing flashpoints in order to ugprade themselves, which is the same thing that you're doing. Needing for mods is not ninjing.

You, sir, are a ninja. You obviously don't think you are, but I can tell you that everyone else is thinking it. You need on items designed for their class, that they can use every part of, that don't even have your primary stat in them, without asking, just because you want one little bit? Gear they desperately need to progress, that they may have run this content several times to get? And you think it's funny that this bothers them? I'd kick you and ignore you, because you are every bit as much a ninja as the person who needs for their companion or for credits.

It's easy to (a) check other player's gear and (b) ask if it's OK to need if they already have the piece.

LOL at all this kvetching about flashpoint gear.

 

• If you want it, need it
  
• If you dont care, greed it
  

 

Seriously, people, it's flashpoint gear. We are all there to get the BH comms, who cares about the Tionese (worse than recruit!) and Columi (you are full columi within a week of dinging 50).

 

Just be glad the LFG popped for you, don't forget to spacebar, and don't aggro unnecessary pulls and we will get along fine.

I agree here.

One thing i miss about SWG, there was no need/greed options. When we completed a heroic, someone would roll a chance cube and people call out a number. The typical response to the winner was /congrats.

I never encountered so much whining about other people then i have seen in this game.

(I have only played SWG before this, but seeing this crowd I assume WOW must have this issue as weil)

Like you said its really about the BH comms during flashpoints, pretty much every drop is going to be companions.

This is where the old school MMO players disagree with the newbies. The old rules are never followed because the newbies make it up as they go, in order to fit whatever they want at any given moment with little to no regard to others.

 

When you are on a Jugg, as a Tank, and you need on Marauder gear, you are dead wrong. I don't care how you want to sit and justify it. Players who want to play like this should indicate they plan to play like jerks ahead of time, not the other way around. These type players make me absolutely sick.

Except there's noting in the OP suggesting the guardian/jugg was a tank rolling on medium dps gear. This is a little bit of a unique situation. There's no reason for a dps strength user to not roll on dps strength gear that's an upgrade for them, even if they'd need to strip the mods from it and put it in another shell because of armor type differences.

I understand someone made that statement later in the thread, though I couldn't be bothered to confirm that it was the OP. If it was a tank rolling need on medium dps gear, that's not right, unless they were trying to develop a dps set and had run it by the group early on.

This is where the old school MMO players disagree with the newbies. The old rules are never followed because the newbies make it up as they go, in order to fit whatever they want at any given moment with little to no regard to others.

 

When you are on a Jugg, as a Tank, and you need on Marauder gear, you are dead wrong. I don't care how you want to sit and justify it. Players who want to play like this should indicate they plan to play like jerks ahead of time, not the other way around. These type players make me absolutely sick.

This is a poor example because let's say an exotch helm falls and it's medium armor, a tank wouldn't want any of those stats. No absorbtion, defense or shield chance on medium armor. However if you are a dps juggernaut and can use those stats, where's the problem? Especially since the shell is useless w/o set bonuses, how does a marauder have more of a claim if he's going to remove the mods than a juggernaut who's going to remove the mods?

If I'm on my Jugg and I see Marauder gear that would be an upgrade I do one simple thing.

I pause for few seconds and take the time to type out "Does anyone mind if I need for mods?"

I do the exact same thing on my Marauder and Sentinel if DPS Heavy Armour drops.

DPS Guardians/Juggs that need medium armour without asking if there is a Sent/Mara in the party? Dealing with them is simple.

"Hi you know that's medium armour right? Do you mind letting me have it?"

or

"Hi, you know that's Sentinel gear right? If you need it for mods then do you mind passing on the next bit of Sent gear?"

Most Guardians/Juggs won't mind just trading you the gear or letting you have the next drop because it's FP gear. You're replacing in in line 2-3 levels anyway. They might be new and not realise they should be in Heavy Armour or they might have made an honest mistake.

If the other person is a jerk about it then they earn a place on my ignore list.

- If this is a roll for a greed for companion fine.

- If this is a need roll for your 1st class that suits you the most (eg. Medium Armor with Strength and your a Marauder) is fine.

- Rolling a need on a mod or an enhancement or armoring on your 2nd class when you can easily get BH is just being an ******e.

Seriously mods can be purchased on GTN, its people like you lot who think that getting the mods is required to need is why Group Finder doesn't work. Because everyone rolls on need and becomes a loot whoring race. Ahmahgerd this crappy 56 mod is so useful to my 3rd character that I will replace in a few minutes when I run HM EC and such.

And what about those on their 3rd characters that cant get HM EC and stuff. Well, find a FREAKING guild that can take you there....

Seriously tell me the difference for a marauder rolling need when they will likely rip the mods out and put in another shell versus a dps juggernaut ripping the mods out and putting them in another shell?

So the marauder is a douche if he is rolling on a need that he only needs mod too.

This should be only for new comers who have no gear would be needing first. If you out roll him he is most likely going to require getting gear elsewhere, as well as leaving a sour taste in his mouth.

But hey you are right let's just roll need on anything cause the 56 mods and enhancements are so useful that I'll be able to run HM TFB on 56 mods no problem.... really!

So the marauder is a douche if he is rolling on a need that he only needs mod too.

 

This should be only for new comers who have no gear would be needing first. If you out roll him he is most likely going to require getting gear elsewhere, as well as leaving a sour taste in his mouth.

 

But hey you are right let's just roll need on anything cause the 56 mods and enhancements are so useful that I'll be able to run HM TFB on 56 mods no problem.... really!

That's not what he said. He's pointing out that a marauder rolling need on a dps medium strength piece will likely do the exact same thing as a dps jugg rolling need on a medium dps strength piece. That is, both are likely to strip every mod (armoring, mod and enhancement) and put it in their current shell. Is there a chance that the marauder will use the shell it comes in? Sure there is, but the shell means NOTHING*, and all those mods mean the same to a dps heavy armor wearer that they do to a dps medium armor user.

*Obvious exception being with the set bonuses on Tionese-Rakata

So the marauder is a douche if he is rolling on a need that he only needs mod too.

 

This should be only for new comers who have no gear would be needing first. If you out roll him he is most likely going to require getting gear elsewhere, as well as leaving a sour taste in his mouth.

 

But hey you are right let's just roll need on anything cause the 56 mods and enhancements are so useful that I'll be able to run HM TFB on 56 mods no problem.... really!

If I'm reading this right then you are calling most players in this game a douche cause most people have a look they like and rip out the mods. The shell is completely useless unless it has a set bonus, and gear that has a set bonus doesn't drop (just the redeemable tokens). It's the stats that people need and whether you are a sentenial/marauder or guardian/juggernaut, if you priortize strength over endurance and secondary stats like power/crit/surge/accuracy, then it's a need roll.

*Obvious exception being with the set bonuses on Tionese-Rakata

but those don't drop do they? exotech and whatever the other one is drop and do not contain set bonuses. The rest are tokens based on class not advanced class, so all knights/warriors would compete for those anyway

but those don't drop do they? exotech and whatever the other one is drop and do not contain set bonuses. The rest are tokens based on class not advanced class, so all knights/warriors would compete for those anyway

Of course, I was just pointing out a situation in which the shell actually had a gameplay use, nothing more. I know there was some ambiguity in my post.

Of course, I was just pointing out a situation in which the shell actually had a gameplay use, nothing more. I know there was some ambiguity in my post.

honestly it's funny that not a single person who thinks this is wrong can explain why, I don't even think I've done this before, but if there was a legit reason, I wouldn't.