It's not ok when people relog on advanced powertechs only when they see that healers are queueing so that they could guard each other and have easy wins. ADVANCED Prototype powertech is useless without guard but when it gets guard he can destroy whole enemy team in second. Why dps classes can guard on 50%, make 10-31k protection and still not die and do 10-15k dps while other classes either don't have guard or have guard but doing 2x less dps (juggernauts and assassins). Is it normal when players who play solo ranked relog on ap pt when they see healer but going back to operatives, assassins and sorcs when healers are gone???so balance just went into the state when you need to relog to a proper class basing on if healers/tanks are in queue or not.

 

If healers/tanks are in queue go on ap pt and do 15k dps, use guard to protect other powertechs in your team

 

if there is no healers/tanks in queue go on assassin, operative or sorcerer to destroy those loosers who queued on powertech without healers in queue....

 

This makes no sense omg. Dps class isn't supposed to guard on 30k protection and still remain with half or full hp thanks to healer. THe fight must not be decided whether your team has two dps classes who can GUARD EACH OTHER (win) or don't have two dps classes who can guard each other (lose).

 

https://imgur.com/0AKnqPa

 

https://imgur.com/Zm1ejbE

 

https://imgur.com/I1Wj9UL

 

https://imgur.com/iT8PNml

 

https://imgur.com/4Po6ZVu

 

https://imgur.com/ce2iXUh

 

https://imgur.com/hpuHiAY

 

https://imgur.com/TPdYW6F

 

https://imgur.com/a/OVMmEQT

None of those numbers are big protect numbers, and anyone who does off guard on Solo ranked on live gets crapped on once people realize they are off guarding. DPS has been able to off guard for ages now and it's never been a huge issue for those who know what to do about it. I've had over 100k+ easy with taunts alone . Edited March 30, 2020 by Yamahara

None of those numbers are big protect numbers, and anyone who does off guard on Solo ranked on live gets crapped on once people realize they are off guarding. DPS has been able to off guard for ages now and it's never been a huge issue for those who know what to do about it. I've had over 100k+ easy with taunts alone .

 

Those who lately criticise dps guarding are right...

Situation have changed. Sins have two vanishes so they can guard and not die thanks to two full hp regen, juggs have ed reset and pts have new armor increase ability. In heal games it is AUTO LOSE if enemy team has two guard dps and your team doesn't have two guard dps. Two dps cross-guard each other so their healer isn't having any issues to keep them both alive since damage is always splitted while their team just zerging one, single target bringing all burst and sustained damage on it which simply can't be out healed by any healer. So yeah the heal games are simply decided by having two guarding dps.

 

Even in 4 dps vs 4 dps games with ap pt the game is much decided by sin or jugg sacrificing themselves with guarding ap pt in their team so he could have time to wipe out all enemies with his insanely op damage. Is this how game must really be? In dps games sacrifice yourself so your pt in your team wins a game alone and in heal games just cross guard and easily kill the enemy team which doesn't have two guards...it is not skill but luck to have two guards or pt + guard

Edited March 30, 2020 by omaan

I do not think this should be removed, BUT, it should have a cost, and should not be click and forget. As it is now its pretty mindless.

 

On tanks, leave the clik and forget mechanic, but on dps there must be a cost. If you chose to click that button it should be time your not spending DPSing and it should affect your resource usage.

 

All relevant skills be it guard, sonic missle, neuro dart or equivalent skills on Juggs or Sins should be active skills, on the GCD, with far shorter duration (as in maybe 8 or 10 seconds at most) that you must chose to forego a DPS skill to use AND should have a relatively high cost.

 

If i choose to off heal on my DPS Merc, i sacrifice DPS and burn my resources, it should be the same for guard mechanics. Problem solved.

DPS specs should have never received guard in the first place.

I do not think this should be removed, BUT, it should have a cost, and should not be click and forget. As it is now its pretty mindless.

 

On tanks, leave the clik and forget mechanic, but on dps there must be a cost. If you chose to click that button it should be time your not spending DPSing and it should affect your resource usage.

 

All relevant skills be it guard, sonic missle, neuro dart or equivalent skills on Juggs or Sins should be active skills, on the GCD, with far shorter duration (as in maybe 8 or 10 seconds at most) that you must chose to forego a DPS skill to use AND should have a relatively high cost.

 

If i choose to off heal on my DPS Merc, i sacrifice DPS and burn my resources, it should be the same for guard mechanics. Problem solved.

 

cross-guard IS SOO easy. if they focus your team mates - one click to give him guard, if they focus you - one click to remove guard so you could get a guard from your team mate... literally dumbest thing i ever saw while healer overheal both dps easily

DPS specs should have never received guard in the first place.

 

i disagree, its the same to me as them having off heals. Many of us enjoy hybrid play styles. Giving those classes that can tank a utility like this isnt the problem, the problem is that its too easy and has no cost or loss of damage associated with it.

cross-guard IS SOO easy. if they focus your team mates - one click to give him guard, if they focus you - one click to remove guard so you could get a guard from your team mate... literally dumbest thing i ever saw while healer overheal both dps easily

 

I agree with you, but if you change the mechanic to an on use, high cost decision this is no longer the case is it?

i disagree, its the same to me as them having off heals. Many of us enjoy hybrid play styles. Giving those classes that can tank a utility like this isnt the problem, the problem is that its too easy and has no cost or loss of damage associated with it.

 

I completely agree

I will start off again with my personal indifference in what they do with dps guard, particularly if it is tied to an antifocus for my dps guardian.

 

That out of the way, I'm of the same idea as the person who mentioned taunting. I have done more protection than most of the people in those screenshots without using a guard once.

 

Taunting is, as I said earlier and the only person who responded chose to ignore, taunt is off the gcd, thereby not meeting your guys' idea of an "active skill" and has in fact less repercussions to the user than guard, which means you're taking 150% damage. Taunt is a flat DR to your team, off the GCD. As a dps guardian player (and tank guardian main), taunt is where far more of my protection comes from than the guard I probably will not survive long enough to use properly anyway. And if anyone mentions the tactical, with the current scaling of FD, there zero point giving up extra smash. Under focus you wont survive long enough to use Fd a second time even with the cd reduction as a dps. And just to reemphasize: it is OFF the GCD.

 

Long story short - I tend to agree that most people who have issues with guard coming from a dps are just bad dps to begin with.

I will start off again with my personal indifference in what they do with dps guard, particularly if it is tied to an antifocus for my dps guardian.

 

snip

 

Long story short - I tend to agree that most people who have issues with guard coming from a dps are just bad dps to begin with.

 

How the hades does it make them a poor DPS to use the skills in their toolkit? is a DPS that off heals bad? Do you put tape over your heals on a sorc? Why shouldnt other classes have similar mechanics?

Guard IS the problem, and you keep dismissing it as though you dont care.

Look at the complaints... 2 PTs cross guarding... no one cares about taunt and such as they work how they should.

These games are already so dumbed down, why make everything a face tank?

How the hades does it make them a poor DPS to use the skills in their toolkit? is a DPS that off heals bad? Do you put tape over your heals on a sorc? Why shouldnt other classes have similar mechanics?

Guard IS the problem, and you keep dismissing it as though you dont care.

Look at the complaints... 2 PTs cross guarding... no one cares about taunt and such as they work how they should.

These games are already so dumbed down, why make everything a face tank?

 

You misunderstand. I think the people that cant figure out how to kill a dps guarding another dps are bad, not the dps doing the guarding

 

My point with taunt is that everyone is here moaning about guard, when I have personally out protected all of those screenshots without using guard once. The obvious implication should be simple but since the moaners seem challenged, I think they see protection numbers and assume guard, completely ignoring the fact that the person can taunt.

Edited April 1, 2020 by KendraP

You misunderstand. I think the people that cant figure out how to kill a dps guarding another dps are bad, not the dps doing the guarding

 

My point with taunt is that everyone is here moaning about guard, when I have personally out protected all of those screenshots without using guard once. The obvious implication should be simple but since the moaners seem challenged, I think they see protection numbers and assume guard, completely ignoring the fact that the person can taunt.

 

Perhaps, but the difference is one requires actions and brains, the other does not. Many do assume guard im sure that true, but if you look at the argument the issues is teams with 2 PTs cross guarding for example, which is silly.

You misunderstand. I think the people that cant figure out how to kill a dps guarding another dps are bad, not the dps doing the guarding

 

My point with taunt is that everyone is here moaning about guard, when I have personally out protected all of those screenshots without using guard once. The obvious implication should be simple but since the moaners seem challenged, I think they see protection numbers and assume guard, completely ignoring the fact that the person can taunt.

 

There are a few distinctions here.

 

1) You are in regs. Among a bunch of other things such as lower skill level, yatta, yatta, yatta... there should be enough damage to even kill a guarded player through guard (assuming there are 4+ dps focusing on the one player through guard).

 

2) Taunt is 25% damage reduced overall. Guard is 50% damage reduced overall. Of course this damage does not go away, it just gets transferred to the guarding player. But when a dps guards another dps they can always mitigate the damage they are taking because of guard with their own defenses, in this case a powertech's energy shield or power lode.

 

In the end, what generally happens, what players are complaining about, is that the team with more offguards (at least in solo ranked) wins. Generally, in games where there is 1 healer but no tank, you focus one player down to 20% health. At that moment he will get guard, forcing the enemy team to swap to the guarding player, but the guarding player is at 100% health with all his CDs so he is difficult to kill. And finally when you get through his CDs and get him down to 20% health, he gets guarded by the guy that he was guarding but now has all his health and CDs back. This is cross guarding. This is the true issue with dps guarding eachother.

Guard is redirected damage - the person doing the guarding is taking more damage than the would be otherwise.

 

Taunting is the truly braindead thing to me, because all it involves is pushing a button that is off the GCD and can be spammed on cooldown.

 

2 or more guards on one team and not another is a matchmaking problem more than a guard problem, just like having 3 mercs was last year.

 

Ps - I actually have participated in solo ranked this season, and no I'm not telling you on what toon.

 

Pps: all that said, and as I have already said, I really couldn't care less what they do with dps guard. They want to remove or nerf it, whatever. Maybe without the group utility, my class can finally get antifocus.

There are a few distinctions here.

 

1) You are in regs. Among a bunch of other things such as lower skill level, yatta, yatta, yatta... there should be enough damage to even kill a guarded player through guard (assuming there are 4+ dps focusing on the one player through guard).

 

2) Taunt is 25% damage reduced overall. Guard is 50% damage reduced overall. Of course this damage does not go away, it just gets transferred to the guarding player. But when a dps guards another dps they can always mitigate the damage they are taking because of guard with their own defenses, in this case a powertech's energy shield or power lode.

 

In the end, what generally happens, what players are complaining about, is that the team with more offguards (at least in solo ranked) wins. Generally, in games where there is 1 healer but no tank, you focus one player down to 20% health. At that moment he will get guard, forcing the enemy team to swap to the guarding player, but the guarding player is at 100% health with all his CDs so he is difficult to kill. And finally when you get through his CDs and get him down to 20% health, he gets guarded by the guy that he was guarding but now has all his health and CDs back. This is cross guarding. This is the true issue with dps guarding eachother.

 

Why you even try to explain this to people that never play ranked.. What you say here is totally science fiction for them, but I love how accurately you've described what happens in ranked games.

 

I think the reason they don't bother to remove guard from DPS is because the only people that seemed to be affected by it are ranked players, and if you look at how much % those players are from the total player base... Maybe for them it's not worth bothering, but who knows.

 

Also dps guarding was an idiotic feature added in 5.0 I think and everything was fine for years until it got implemented, people were playing fine without it , but I see... some people now obsessively say it' shouldn't be removed.

Edited April 3, 2020 by DavidAtkinson

Then maybe *gasp* BW should account for guard in matchmaking so you dont end up with 3 PTs on one team and 2, I dont know pick something without a guard on another. Go back to complaining about matchmaking and class stacking.

Then maybe *gasp* BW should account for guard in matchmaking so you dont end up with 3 PTs on one team and 2, I dont know pick something without a guard on another. Go back to complaining about matchmaking and class stacking.

 

Thats not only pt. Yes two ap pts + healer can win ANYTHING. It can win a team with real skank tank, 2 dps and a healer, it can win easily 4 strong dps (sins and operatives), it can win anything. But other guarding dps are also an auto win in heal games. Once again if one ranked team has 2 guarding dps and a healer and another team doesn't have two guarding dps, the first team will WIN EASILY. Team without cross-guard has no chances.

 

Ranked, indeed turned into char swap show - when players see healers queuing they relog on pts and juggs. When players see that healers are not queuing they relog to sin, opers and sorcs. How is this supposed to be right? Why ap pt is auto win in games with healers and guard but auto lose in games with no guard?? This is ridiculous because skill doesn't matter now - only team comp matters

Then maybe team comp should be considered in matchmaking

Then maybe team comp should be considered in matchmaking

 

This is fair, but like many other ideas on the topic we simple dont have the population at this point to implement such things without significant increases in an already lengthy queue.

And so, because you've run everyone out of ranked, my already crap class is going to get even more useless?

Then maybe team comp should be considered in matchmaking

 

In solo ranked? How lol? It stacks same classes in same team as always or puts them basing on elo

In solo ranked? How lol? It stacks same classes in same team as always or puts them basing on elo

 

What did I say earlier about matchmaking? What is it with you guys and circular reasoning. Guardians suck in Sr, and you're trying to convince me that guard on them is so dominating? I think you guys need to ask for group comp in matchmaking and perhaps learn to dps a bit without having a 4 on 2 advantage

wow 200k protection? busted, plz nerf this bioware Edited April 4, 2020 by Wolvel