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Time for a PvP Fix


fungihoujo

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One other thing I noticed that we could really use something better on.

 

Mara/juggs get armouring for vindicator gear that gives '+10% damage for 5 seconds after force charge'- that is at the least, a 10% damage buff that can be kept up one third of the time, if not more.

 

Not only that- it's one that can and is used to boost the damage of the smash even further.

 

Now look at our bonuses, and stop me when you hear me say a bonus that is as good as 10% bonus damage for 5 seconds every 15 seconds or shorter.

 

Stalkers-

2- increase range of force slow and jolt by 5m (pretty useless)

4- Increase recklessness charge by 1 and reduce CD by 15 seconds (not bad)

 

Force-Mystic

2- Reduce static barrier lock out by 3 seconds (good, mostly because of the stun bubble- still nowhere near as good as a 10% damage boost)

4- Consumption restores 3% of max health over 6seconds (useless- you're taking up to 15% of your max health in damage to use it- with no way to mitigate it- this is like a gentle breeze)

 

Force-Master

2- Reduce CD of crushing by 1.5 seconds, damage heals you for 0.5% max health. (So CD is 13.5 rather than 15 seconds... not even close to the marauder's bonus- you end up with a hot that restores 3% of your health... for me that's 600 health every 15 seconds- sorry, not worth mentioning)

4- +5m to jolt/shock range (again, this is useless- you may occassionally be able to interrupt a healer who'd otherwise be two steps out of range- big deal)

 

All 3 sets have one bonus which I'd consider utterly useless- and the other one in all cases is just 'all right'.

 

 

Now- yes, the 2 set bonus for mara in this case is useless- and it's decent for juggs- but the 4 set bonus... 10% damage increase up a third of the time? That's like popping an adrenal every time you leap, it's absurd.

 

 

 

We need much better set bonuses... for example

 

Force-Master

2- Force lightning can be used while moving

4- Reduce Crushing Darkness CD by 3 seconds, while active increase all damage a sorc does on that target by 10%

 

Force-Mystic

2- Reduce static barrier lock out by 5 seconds, while a static barrier is on you, you cannot be interrupted

4- Resurgence increases your healing on that target by 10%

 

 

Might seem a bit strong- but compared to 10% bonus damage on all attacks against everyone... yeah- once again, another case of BW playing favourites to their precious warriors.

 

What about something like this

 

Taking damage causes a proc that reduces damage by 15% for five seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 seconds.

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What about something like this

 

Taking damage causes a proc that reduces damage by 15% for five seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 seconds.

 

i mean marauders, who are tunnel visioned killing machines basically have 30% dmg reduction for 30 seconds every minute..

 

we could use something like this certainly

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What is funny is people on any other area other than the class forum think we are fine and don't need a buff because we have a bubble. They have no idea how badly our damage is nor what we sacrifice to get limited cc all they know is we have bubble stun and it is annoying to them.

 

If we ever get equal damage to other classes people would cry nerf because we have been gimped for so long. Even if we were given some of the baseline assasin abilities like increase to endurance and shock damage. Reduction in cooldown to death field 3 seconds and bonus to damage by 20% like 1st tier rage spec gets to smash . Little things like that would go a long way for our dps.

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My personal sorcerer class rework list.

 

Baseline Changes

-Force speed removes and makes you immune to slows/roots

-Melee attacks benefit from Willpower

-Proc type abilites in your talents such as "chain shock" benefit but no longer consume recklessness

-Whirlwind is instant cast baseline

-Recklessness has a 1.2 minute cooldown now

-Add drain life (kotor ability) Deals 1.8k internal damage healing for 50% of the damge done. Single target, 25 meter range instant cast. Damage increased by 20% against targets with less than 30% health. (45 second cooldown)

FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T PLAY KOTOR

 

========== http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_drain =============

 

-Veiled Darkness- Increases Defense Rating by 30% for 6 seconds; increases force regeneration by 40% for ten seconds. Any single target damage done during the defense rating increase is reduced by 30%.

---------------------------------------

Spec modifiers

 

Full Madness

-Crushing Darkness DOT portion is now internal damage, additionally it increases Dot critical chance on that target by 5% for the DOT duration.

-Overload adds a 30% slow to targets hit; lasts 5 seconds

-Lightning strike cast via wrath does 25% damage more damage in addition to wrath's damage increase, also reduces the cooldown of force warp by 4 seconds when wrath is consumed this way. (see below)

-Crushing darkness ticks have a 25% chance to make your next consumption cost no health and increase your health received by 100% from parasitism for 7 seconds. DOT damage done during this time will not be reduced by Veiled Darkness. (45 second internal cooldown)

-Thrash now has a 100% chance to make your next force slow root the target for 1 second and deal a low amount of damage over 5 seconds.

-6 tier ability Force Warp - Increases the rate at which your current dots tick by 30% (does not effect dots used after this move. Makes Force lightning cost no force for the next 8 seconds. (1.5 minute cooldown)

 

Full Lightning.

-Bubble Stun removed

-Lightning strike is now cast-able while moving but no longer has 35 meter range through lightning spire.

-Polarity shift is now a 1.5 minute cool-down and also reduces global cooldown duration by .3 seconds.

-Forked Lightning removed

-Lightning storm proc reworked. Lightning storm has a 40% chance to activate off of shock and thundering blast making your next Force storm instant cast and require no channel.Chain lightning is given a 15 second cooldown but is made to be instant cast. Force Storm cannot be casted while the channel-less force storm is active.

-Your lightning strikes grant Devastation reducing the cast time of your next crushing darkness by .25 seconds stacking up to 4 times

-Casting Crushing darkness grants impunity making your next thundering blast cast immune to pulls, knock-backs and interrupts.

-Thundering Blast will knock a target back 15 meters and root for 1 second if the target is within 6 meters of the caster.

- (6th teir) Force Storm has a 10% chance per target hit to grant empowered granting the following effect to the next move used (20 second intenal cooldown)

===Your next shock is a guaranteed critical hit

===Chain lightning gains 40% armor penetration

===Increases the amount healed by your next unnatural preservation by 30%

===Thrash counts as a tech attack dealing an additional 1500 internal damage and granting impunity

-Electric binding's root doesn't break from affliction damage till the 3 second and targets hit by overload are knocked back an additional 5 meters. All other damage still breaks the root after 2 seconds

-You receive 30% less damage while stunned

Edited by AdmiralParmesan
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Obviously a lot of thought will have to go into where these skills are placed in the skill trees to prevant overpowered hybrids. I hope you all take the time to read my ideas

 

I read them, but *** @ anything melee related. If any sorc is whacking something with their light saber it's either

A: They think they rolled an assassin but just have been completely wrong this whole time...

B: They're about to humiliate someone with a crushing thrash killing blow. (I do this in WZ's on Lowhealth people trying to kill me. It's hysterical.)

 

I agree with you that the sorc needs an execute and some type of defensive CD. I've always believed that it should be Shock costing half the force and doing triple the damage on something sub 30%, the CD of it is long enough to be on par with other classes executes. Or madness DoT's should be 100% crit on targets sub 30%.

 

As for Defensive CD, It should just be passive with bubble or a Detaunt like Rift has. If bubble is down, you take 30% less damage for 6 seconds. (that way there is still the potential gap before refreshing bubble to take harder hits)

 

Our AGGRO DROP should also provide 50% less damage from a specific target for 15 seconds. It's on a long enough CD not to be abused in both the PVE and PVP world.

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Well we in pvp we end up in melee range a large amount of the time reguardless of how well we play. I don't see anything wrong with using melee attack if we don't have the option to get out of melee range. After all we have a light saber it seems kind of silly that our class has no use for it.
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Force lightning while moving is definitely OP, the other set bonus ideas aren't bad though. It is just plain sad how bad the 4 set force master set bonus is

 

Agreed, but lightnint tree should definevely cas LIGHT STRIKE/ disturbance on the move, scorch style MOFO.

 

And they should think about giving some love to heal tree cast while moving, maybe force bend doing dark heal (and dark heal only) cast while moving.

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Agreed, but lightnint tree should definevely cas LIGHT STRIKE/ disturbance on the move, scorch style MOFO.

 

And they should think about giving some love to heal tree cast while moving, maybe force bend doing dark heal (and dark heal only) cast while moving.

 

Yeah I mentioned mobile lightning strike in my post. Moving dark heal cast through force bending proc would certainly be interesting.

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That would be nice- frankly we just need what everyone else has- either some CC breaks/defensives and a perma snare and root at baseline- or, the pure builds buffed up and every tree having something along those lines.

 

I definitely think root immune on force speed needs to be baseline- it is already way too easy to shut down. Make fadeout give stun immunity- our lack of defensive means we must have better mobility than we currently do- meaning, our mobility has to work when we use it and not be so easy to counter. Thing is- if you CC force speed, you nullify it's effects entirely- for anyone with a defensive, CCing them through it might indeed waste it to a degree- but that defensive is still working through the stun or root- force speed is not, and that makes all the difference in the world.

 

Our mez should be baseline instant, I think the KB should be a baseline 2 second root on top of it- then have bindings increase it to be a 360 KB like it used to be, as well as adding 1 second/point to the root duration.

 

Force slow must last its cooldown, and I think should be our baseline root- 2 second root, 12 second snare. Or, make madness tree add a root to it, as well as extra snare time/damage. (or reduce CD)

 

DoT protection- can't say this one enough, Creeping Terror needs dot protection

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That would be nice- frankly we just need what everyone else has- either some CC breaks/defensives and a perma snare and root at baseline- or, the pure builds buffed up and every tree having something along those lines.

 

I definitely think root immune on force speed needs to be baseline- it is already way too easy to shut down. Make fadeout give stun immunity- our lack of defensive means we must have better mobility than we currently do- meaning, our mobility has to work when we use it and not be so easy to counter. Thing is- if you CC force speed, you nullify it's effects entirely- for anyone with a defensive, CCing them through it might indeed waste it to a degree- but that defensive is still working through the stun or root- force speed is not, and that makes all the difference in the world.

 

Our mez should be baseline instant, I think the KB should be a baseline 2 second root on top of it- then have bindings increase it to be a 360 KB like it used to be, as well as adding 1 second/point to the root duration.

 

Force slow must last its cooldown, and I think should be our baseline root- 2 second root, 12 second snare. Or, make madness tree add a root to it, as well as extra snare time/damage. (or reduce CD)

 

DoT protection- can't say this one enough, Creeping Terror needs dot protection

 

If you look at a marauders baseline abilities you will notice that they have everything baseline, then they can spec in whatever they want.

 

If you look at our baseline abilities, you will notice that they arent much different from a shadows baseline abilities.

 

But wait, isnt shadow that melee class with acces to a tanky tree and skills like resilence and whatnot?

 

Yup. So all the baseline design philosofy is flawed, they give us almost the same abilities of a MELEE CLASS with TANKING TREE, and told us were suposed to survive with that.

 

Then they make it so our upper tree skills are either underwhelming or crap for PvP (slow AoE heal swag).

 

The result is most of the sorcs go hybrid and spread thin to improve our survivability and actually have a fighting chance.

 

Thats why sorc has been hybrid since day 1. Even when we werent sufficiently nerfed by scumbag devs everyone ran some kind of hybrid for PvP.

 

This is not just about numbers, like "sorc is weak because it hits low", well we DO hit low (lower than any other DPS and some tanks actually) but its a design stance that is flawed and rotten to the core.

 

Sorc is the class that:

- Has, hands down, the lowest survivability in the game, even if we have some half decent escape moves, they are all highly counterable, thats why any sorc is focus fire target number one on ANY CIRCUNSTANCE. If you have a healer and a dps sorc you can braindeadly train the sorc, it will take some time for him to blow his espace but after that hes dead meat, you dont even have to control the healer.

 

- Has, hands down, the weakest PvP burst in the game, while also having arguably very weak sustained pressure. For petes sake, CD + afflicition combo prolly ticks lower than a ptech plasma cell dot with lower uptime, im pretty sure plasma cell has like near 100% uptime.

 

- In the healing area, same as DPS, is the healer most vulnerable to braindead zerging. Can be dropped twice in the space of a 4 second stun, and, most important, when damaged has like minimal chances of recuperating. Sure we can move around a lot with force sprint but we cant heal while doing that. If you train a sawbones, he can quickly spam hots and cockpack on himself to recuperate, if you train a mando, he can pop shield and almost guarantee a big heal coming in, plus he has nature swiftness (makes **** insta cast). What the devs dont understand is that the sorc healer dont have how to recuperate from assaults so, no matter how good you are or how much you outplay your opponents youre not going to make it because you cant recuperate properly.

 

Healing sage motto: "Outplay everyone, die anyway".

Edited by Laforet
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If you look at a marauders baseline abilities you will notice that they have everything baseline, then they can spec in whatever they want.

 

If you look at our baseline abilities, you will notice that they arent much different from a shadows baseline abilities.

 

But wait, isnt shadow that melee class with acces to a tanky tree and skills like resilence and whatnot?

 

Yup. So all the baseline design philosofy is flawed, they give us almost the same abilities of a MELEE CLASS with TANKING TREE, and told us were suposed to survive with that.

 

Then they make it so our upper tree skills are either underwhelming or crap for PvP (slow AoE heal swag).

 

The result is most of the sorcs go hybrid and spread thin to improve our survivability and actually have a fighting chance.

 

Thats why sorc has been hybrid since day 1. Even when we werent sufficiently nerfed by scumbag devs everyone ran some kind of hybrid for PvP.

 

This is not just about numbers, like "sorc is weak because it hits low", well we DO hit low (lower than any other DPS and some tanks actually) but its a design stance that is flawed and rotten to the core.

 

Sorc is the class that:

- Has, hands down, the lowest survivability in the game, even if we have some half decent escape moves, they are all highly counterable, thats why any sorc is focus fire target number one on ANY CIRCUNSTANCE. If you have a healer and a dps sorc you can braindeadly train the sorc, it will take some time for him to blow his espace but after that hes dead meat, you dont even have to control the healer.

 

- Has, hands down, the weakest PvP burst in the game, while also having arguably very weak sustained pressure. For petes sake, CD + afflicition combo prolly ticks lower than a ptech plasma cell dot with lower uptime, im pretty sure plasma cell has like near 100% uptime.

 

- In the healing area, same as DPS, is the healer most vulnerable to braindead zerging. Can be dropped twice in the space of a 4 second stun, and, most important, when damaged has like minimal chances of recuperating. Sure we can move around a lot with force sprint but we cant heal while doing that. If you train a sawbones, he can quickly spam hots and cockpack on himself to recuperate, if you train a mando, he can pop shield and almost guarantee a big heal coming in, plus he has nature swiftness (makes **** insta cast). What the devs dont understand is that the sorc healer dont have how to recuperate from assaults so, no matter how good you are or how much you outplay your opponents youre not going to make it because you cant recuperate properly.

 

Healing sage motto: "Outplay everyone, die anyway".

 

While I agree with the problem of people just running train on sorc targets I don't entirely agree. Sorc DPS has some of the best AOE pressure damage in the game. As well healing sorcs also have good output.

 

The problem of out terrible baseline talents is completely true however. Assassins have all the same abilities we have and then some. The only thing particularly unique the sorcerer class has baseline is static barrier, which is just there to help mitigate our already poor defenses

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While I agree with the problem of people just running train on sorc targets I don't entirely agree. Sorc DPS has some of the best AOE pressure damage in the game. As well healing sorcs also have good output.

 

The problem of out terrible baseline talents is completely true however. Assassins have all the same abilities we have and then some. The only thing particularly unique the sorcerer class has baseline is static barrier, which is just there to help mitigate our already poor defenses

 

Some people must understand one basic thing before getting into a competitive PvP balance discussion.

 

Scoreboard numbers in PvP are an alienation of reality and more often than not they DO NOT represent PvP viability in any rate.

 

Any sorc can put out TREMENDOUS numbers by spamming affliction on the 8 players of the enemy team, they will look pretty damn good in scoreboard but they actually didnt helped their team to win at all because afflition adds up over time when spammed on multiple players but it doenst have any real impact on PvP.

 

Thus, just saying "sorc can put good numbers" means nothing if you dont put it into a PvP context.

 

Look at how a sage reacts to damage taken / death ratios especially when tunneled hardcore and compare it to a sawbones. Take a look at a healing sage TTK (it can be dropped like 2 times in a 4 second stun). Compare the uncounterability of spammable cockbang and godly hots from sawbones, nature swiftness of mandos with a sprint and a knockback from sages.

 

Everything we do is counterable, that might not account a lot for pugs, but i can guarantee it accounts a lot when you are playing a game that matters against good players. Since chain pull is so common in RWZs, especially because every rated team has AT LEAST 1 pyro and 1 shadow (thats 2 pulls, if not more) you are just getting chain pulled and killed faster than anything else.

 

And yeah, they can pull you 2 times and still hard stun you, or just chain pull you 3 times until resolve fills.

 

You really think numbers mean jack in PvP, all i can tell you is:

 

YO PVE, THAT WAY -------------------------->

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Some people must understand one basic thing before getting into a competitive PvP balance discussion.

 

Scoreboard numbers in PvP are an alienation of reality and more often than not they DO NOT represent PvP viability in any rate.

 

Any sorc can put out TREMENDOUS numbers by spamming affliction on the 8 players of the enemy team, they will look pretty damn good in scoreboard but they actually didnt helped their team to win at all because afflition adds up over time when spammed on multiple players but it doenst have any real impact on PvP.

 

Thus, just saying "sorc can put good numbers" means nothing if you dont put it into a PvP context.

 

ding ding ding. winning warzones is about killing people efficiently, not just giving them all constant papercuts while their teammates return from 'the dead'.

Edited by islander
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Some people must understand one basic thing before getting into a competitive PvP balance discussion.

 

Scoreboard numbers in PvP are an alienation of reality and more often than not they DO NOT represent PvP viability in any rate.

 

Any sorc can put out TREMENDOUS numbers by spamming affliction on the 8 players of the enemy team, they will look pretty damn good in scoreboard but they actually didnt helped their team to win at all because afflition adds up over time when spammed on multiple players but it doenst have any real impact on PvP.

 

YO PVE, THAT WAY -------------------------->

 

No good sorc tab dots affliction simply for numbers, you do it to get the lightning barrage proc almost every 10 seconds. The aoe pressure comes from using your extra wrath procs on lightning strike to get chain lightning or using force storm to get chain lightning. Combining death field and chain lightning for burst purposes with lightning barrage allows decent single target burst while hitting everyone in the vicinity of your target. Is it smash damage status? NO, but smash is ridiculously out of line currently.

 

The real question is rather, does aoe pressure really have a place in a burst dominated team game?

 

 

Also to say the sorc class has no burst is wrong. Hybrid has pretty decent burst if played correctly and full lightning has great burst if played correctly. The problem lies in the trouble getting off casts off in the first place. A melee class can produce damage just as optimally under pressure assuming they aren't dead and are in range of a target. As a sorc dps being focused means we are forced to kite as it is unlikely just healing will keep us up. Even if we attempt to cast the large amounts of cc and interrupts (specifically force charge ruining our mobility and casting) will keep us from creating any real damage.

 

I don't think many sorcs here want to or expect to facetank another dps, but it is an underlying problem of the class that we can't get casts off under pressure especially in a group setting.

Edited by AdmiralParmesan
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The real question is rather, does aoe pressure really have a place in a burst dominated team game?

 

Well you could look at it in terms of if you are setting up a premade then you have two options, have a single target burst focus premade, or a aoe-bomb group combining several aeo-bombers to deliver sustained aoe to a specific area where a group of targets are - I personally haven't seen the latter used in warzones in this game.

 

Could work in larger scale open RvR I guess.

 

Problem is ttk with single target focus is so short that not sure a bomb group could melt an entire team in one spot before they were all taken out by opposing focus team.

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No good sorc tab dots affliction simply for numbers, you do it to get the lightning barrage proc almost every 10 seconds. The aoe pressure comes from using your extra wrath procs on lightning strike to get chain lightning or using force storm to get chain lightning. Combining death field and chain lightning for burst purposes with lightning barrage allows decent single target burst while hitting everyone in the vicinity of your target. Is it smash damage status? NO, but smash is ridiculously out of line currently.

 

The real question is rather, does aoe pressure really have a place in a burst dominated team game?

 

 

Also to say the sorc class has no burst is wrong. Hybrid has pretty decent burst if played correctly and full lightning has great burst if played correctly. The problem lies in the trouble getting off casts off in the first place. A melee class can produce damage just as optimally under pressure assuming they aren't dead and are in range of a target. As a sorc dps being focused means we are forced to kite as it is unlikely just healing will keep us up. Even if we attempt to cast the large amounts of cc and interrupts (specifically force charge ruining our mobility and casting) will keep us from creating any real damage.

 

I don't think many sorcs here want to or expect to facetank another dps, but it is an underlying problem of the class that we can't get casts off under pressure especially in a group setting.

 

You dont need to dot 8 people to get a proc with 10 seconds internal CD, i run psych projection on my healing hybrid and i rarely need to dot more than 2 targets to get what i want, but yeah thats is entirely another matter.

 

As a healer, im not very afraid of a sorc bombing CL + deathfield on me on my team. You see, even with recknesless a full crit death field CL is still kind of random (think about smash autocrit). I would say im more afraid of a ptech bombing death from above on my team than a sorc casting DF + CL, really. This coming from a healer perspective that specs into no AoE, sorc DPS is the lowest threat on my priority list.

 

I have to heartly disagree on you that sorc has burst, it doenst. The definition of burst damage is not "doing a lot of damage", the definition of burst damge is "DOING DAMAGE IN A DETERMINED SPACE OF TIME THAT THE TARGET (OR HIS HEALERS / PEELERS) CANT REACT".

 

Then, according to my definition of burst damage, sorc burst damage blows, it blows big time. Full lightning? Yeah cast times for you = reaction times for the enemy, since you hardly got something to lock the enemy down it means your burst is defficient (think about a frost mage doing like 50% damage with no deep freeze).

 

But then, there ARE alternatives to burst damage in PvP (see affliction warlock around season 7-8) but sorc has nothing of this kind. Sorc cant pressure, doesnt put up meaningful pressure (ptech has more dot pressure than us, while having incredible burst). The only thing sorc is good at is assisting the DPS and thats because were ranged thus we swap easily and not because were particulary strong on some area.

 

Also, im kind of surprised no sorc has yet mentioned force slow on his / her burst rotation. Its instant, it almost does project level damage, i can finish off many people with when i pop reck. Its prolly better than all this casted CL bursting people ********, lol.

 

I agree with you that some things on this game are cheese and out of control (pt , smashers, im looking at you) but if they are willing and letting (even buffing) the aforementioned out of control specs, the fact that they left sorc out of the cheese DPS train is just unfair and not acceptable.

 

Either they fix everyone or they buff sorc to their level, since they are not fixing them (because they are buffing them) its unfair to not bring us to their cheese level.

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I have to heartly disagree on you that sorc has burst, it doenst. The definition of burst damage is not "doing a lot of damage", the definition of burst damge is "DOING DAMAGE IN A DETERMINED SPACE OF TIME THAT THE TARGET (OR HIS HEALERS / PEELERS) CANT REACT".

 

 

 

here is my burst rotation for a back-loaded burst setup

 

gain lightning barrage and lightning storm proc (very easy to get in a group situation)

 

Affliction on target----polarity shift (polarity shift isn't needed but it is nice) --- Crushing darkness 2k with dot afterwards; Thundering blast 4.3k; Recklessness ; Force lightning 1300x4 (no global due to it being a cast, polarity shift + lightning barrage puts it below the global cooldown mark) Chain lightning 4.5k AOE

 

In this scenario you hit a target for 15.5k damage in about a 3 second time span without even considering crushing darkness or affliction damage. Not all targets will be wary that you are going to hit them with this kind of damage and I can easily kill unguarded healers before they react. I tend to attack targets without defensive cooldowns up that are low armor dps or healers that are concentrating on healing another target. As well I use the stalker set bonus so I can still use a guaranteed crit shock afterwards for more damage.

 

 

To say we have no burst is completely false, the issue is our difficulty with high armor targets, our low defenses and our difficulty getting off casts under pressure.

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Also, im kind of surprised no sorc has yet mentioned force slow on his / her burst rotation. Its instant, it almost does project level damage, i can finish off many people with when i pop reck. Its prolly better than all this casted CL bursting people ********, lol.

 

 

Thats because force slow does garbage damage and is mitigated by armor; you are wasting a recklessness proc on it. Also I never cast Chain lightning, you would have to be stupid to do so. Chain lightning is only used with the lightning storm proc, its a waste of time and effort to manually cast it.

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Yeah... but nobody's going to go full lightning since a decent (yes, decent burst- there's still way better burst out there) burst combo on light armour every two minutes isn't enough to make us a good class.

 

- baseline root immunity on force speed

- baseline root on force slow

- better set bonuses

- something to protect healers from interrupts

- better corruption force regen

- some armour penetration/abilities becoming elemental or internal

 

Things like these, plus better 31 point abilities might make pures worthwhile and maybe even on par with other classes.

 

We rely heavily on affliction regardless of spec- yet we have a cast mez and a talented root that breaks on dots after a GCD.

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Yeah... but nobody's going to go full lightning since a decent (yes, decent burst- there's still way better burst out there) burst combo on light armour every two minutes isn't enough to make us a good class.

 

- baseline root immunity on force speed

- baseline root on force slow

- better set bonuses

- something to protect healers from interrupts

- better corruption force regen

- some armour penetration/abilities becoming elemental or internal

 

Things like these, plus better 31 point abilities might make pures worthwhile and maybe even on par with other classes.

 

We rely heavily on affliction regardless of spec- yet we have a cast mez and a talented root that breaks on dots after a GCD.

 

How is it decent burst every 2 mins? You can burst someone every 15ish seconds. Do you want me to link dozens of ss from the past week of me breaking 5k cl's every match? This past match I hit a sentinel for 5300 tb and 5433 cl back to back. What class can burst higher than that in the span of 2 seconds? None. My burst rotation is similar to depreva except I do tb and cl back to back followed by fl and shock. Even if you hit someone with cds up, that's still a good 8-10k with all of those spells....assuming you're geared properly.

 

As depreva also mentioned, unless people know you really well on your server, chances are you're gonna drop a bomb on them before they know what hit them. As he also said, it's very smart to tab affliction on multiple targets so you can switch at any time and burst when they have no cds up.

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How is it decent burst every 2 mins? You can burst someone every 15ish seconds. Do you want me to link dozens of ss from the past week of me breaking 5k cl's every match? This past match I hit a sentinel for 5300 tb and 5433 cl back to back. What class can burst higher than that in the span of 2 seconds? None. My burst rotation is similar to depreva except I do tb and cl back to back followed by fl and shock. Even if you hit someone with cds up, that's still a good 8-10k with all of those spells....assuming you're geared properly.

 

As depreva also mentioned, unless people know you really well on your server, chances are you're gonna drop a bomb on them before they know what hit them. As he also said, it's very smart to tab affliction on multiple targets so you can switch at any time and burst when they have no cds up.

 

Your top burst will be with recklessness/polarity. That said- I can't believe hitting a sent for 10k if he has full expertise- and that'd also be without any of his many CDs active no doubt. Even if you do- I'm at more expertise than I need (1380) and a smasher can get off a 7.5k smash alone when correctly geared- there's no way to mitigate that since there's no defensives- a PT can get off a TD, ED, RS/RP/RS to hit all within 3 seconds for up to 20k on the right target- on a normal target, that's still going way above 10k with EF up. Find a stunned target or root your own- 10k off just ravage isn't hard to get. Sins often do a 6k/4k combo with two abilties, snipers can... etc....

 

My point is- there is absolutely many classes that can get off that burst and more- and after the burst still be doing more damage, having better mitigation and defensives, etc...

 

 

Without recklessness- CL has 30% double strike chance and you have I'm guessing about 35% crit chance- so yes, you CAN get it to do a max hit from time to time- so I don't doubt you can get 5k CL medals. But- a smasher can get a crit 100% of the time, with bonus damage 100% of the time if they've put crush on someone who can't purge, or using CDs, or force choke. Never have problem with armour pen/crits on a PT either, EF or not. etc...

 

So yes- as I said, you can get the guaranteed burst every 2 minutes- and you can sometimes get lucky burst combos. You're still immobile, and you're still reliant more heavily on luck, and you're still one of the most mitigated specs in the game- your only armour pen is TB itself (affliction's damage is so subpar it can't be counted as burst). And that's still burst that is very easy to counter. (interrupt LS and no CL procs, purge affliction and no TB crits or lightning barrage).

 

If LS was a mobile cast, basically- sorc's ranged auto attack- and TB was instant- then lightning might be viable for rated- as is, how often do you see pure lightning in rated?

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I would say guaranteed burst is best with recklessness, but you certainly don't need it nor polarity shift. Polarity shift is best used when there is a large group and you are mashing ls hoping for a cl proc before they all disperse.

 

I consistently hit for 3800-5200 with tb regardless of target. Cl, even if it doesn't crit, is still at least 2k. So i'm dropping smash level damage in the same amount of time every 15 secs or so. All the cases you described, there's no way you're getting hit that hard unless you have bad positioning when your bubble is down. A ravage most certainly doesn't hit for 10k on me, and a smash max is like 6k, but that rarely happens because bubble absorbs most of it. Pt pyros with both their grenades and rail shot will do 3-4k through bubble, so again, not that earth-shattering.

 

And all this talk of cleansing and interrupting...it definitely is a rare thing in a pug wz...but in rated, you must run with very low dps people. I played with 4 other dps, and we were all 700kish every rated match. With that much pressure, people aren't dispelling much, much less interrupting every caster constantly. Don't forget we can cleanse a lot of the things that really hurt us too.

 

Even when I play madness for fun, I always get a 5k medal for death field every wz, and my dots tick for 700-1k with 985 bonus damage as either spec. Force lightning is around 1400ish, a bit more depending on person. Sorc burst has a lot to do with picking your targets wisely, being geared right, and great positioning. I will admit we are more dependent on a good team than a smasher to get our damage, but luckily, playing with good people isn't an issue for me.

 

1380 exp or whatever you said? Way too freakin much. You need to put pve armorings in your bracers and belt, and switch out at least 1 exp crystal for power.

 

I'm the only lightning sorc I know of that's done rated over 2k, but I know 4 other sorcs who were 31 madness over 2k.

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