[quote name='MotorCityMan']They constantly belittle the skill of others and use negative characterizations and name calling like "bads" to suggest that some players deserve to be mistreated which also underlines their lack of concern for others and the population at large.[/QUOTE] To be blunt...you guys deserve it as you are always the ones to complain first. Maybe instead of crying and blaming things on other you should, I don't know, ask questions? Like that assassin ************ about stun locking (lol...). Ask how to counter it, not ***** about it and continue to be terrible.

Isn't there a 1or 2k reply limit to threads before a mod is supposed to lock and restart? How does this have 7k responses?

My favorite anti-premade argument is the WoW one. Where the devs came out aginst premades and specifically mention PUGstomping. So many people on these forums were crusading for a separation based on their comments, so I had to look into it.

 

WoW had an add-on that was allowing players to superqueue essentially. They only limited the amount of players that it could keep together, just like SWTOR has now.

 

There are not 4 players in the game that should ever be able to beat you by themselves unless you are absolutely terrible. That being said, there are other inequalities that cause issues such as lack of healers on one team. If one team is better than the other AND they have the only healer(s), you tend to see extremely one-sided matches. But the population can't support matchmaking based on skill AND role AND class AND faction AND everything else that would give you perfect games.

 

You joined a random queue and got random games. Shocking you didn't get the utopia you expected. Adjust your perceptions of what the reg queue offers and you'll find yourself far less disappointed by it. Or just quit the warzones like 50% of players do anyway.

My favorite anti-premade argument is the WoW one. Where the devs came out aginst premades and specifically mention PUGstomping. So many people on these forums were crusading for a separation based on their comments, so I had to look into it.

 

WoW had an add-on that was allowing players to superqueue essentially. They only limited the amount of players that it could keep together, just like SWTOR has now.

 

There are not 4 players in the game that should ever be able to beat you by themselves unless you are absolutely terrible. That being said, there are other inequalities that cause issues such as lack of healers on one team. If one team is better than the other AND they have the only healer(s), you tend to see extremely one-sided matches. But the population can't support matchmaking based on skill AND role AND class AND faction AND everything else that would give you perfect games.

 

You joined a random queue and got random games. Shocking you didn't get the utopia you expected. Adjust your perceptions of what the reg queue offers and you'll find yourself far less disappointed by it. Or just quit the warzones like 50% of players do anyway.

 

 

to be fair there have been premades formed out of very skilled ranked players with tons of experience, where as pure random group you dont stand the chance. If you know something about the old european ranked scene Nostrum Dolus might ring a bell. when there top players queued as a group it was basically spawn camping. They basically did the same to 90% (rough estimate, i know the internet and numbers) of the ranked population with their full 8, so this isnt really a benchmark.

 

Most premade you see in the game are more than are beatable by pure pugs, with competent people (big if i know, and i don't call these people "bads", they have to refuse to improve to deserve that name).

 

anyway, the last bit of competitive players are leaving the game for good now. I think the premade thing will soon be a non issue. And the average play will dumb down even further.

Seriously if i get hard stunned, knocked back and whirlewinded by a sorc, he deserves to be globaled, i see this stuff more every day.

Premades are given the ability to choose 50% of their team. They can choose 50% of the composition, gear, skill, communication method, and experience with each other. That is a huge game mechanic which favors them. If you can't understand this then you are beyond hope.

 

That is why I said that you do not like competition. Someone defending the current system is either too dumb to understand the above advantages or they don't want competition. Maybe I overestimated you.

 

dude i'm all with you in that we need more competitive matches and less one sided stomps, but i honestly think your solution is all wrong. imho very few premades actually contain 4 very good players, and those are the reason this thread exists, but if you make it a habit to check your team you'll see that quite frequently you'll have a premade on your side as well, just one that is not very good. On the other hand if you solo queue often i'm sure there's some names that if you see two of them in your team you know you're going to put up a fight no matter who you are facing.

 

I strongly believe it has never been about premades, it's all about the amount of good, average and bad players. If a premade contains 4 great players then yes, they are stacking the deck and we need to get very lucky with our team to have a shot, but most premades are not that good, and there are a lot of very good solo queuers, we just need to match the best solos in the queue against the good premades and it's gonna be a decent fight.

dude i'm all with you in that we need more competitive matches and less one sided stomps, but i honestly think your solution is all wrong. imho very few premades actually contain 4 very good players, and those are the reason this thread exists, but if you make it a habit to check your team you'll see that quite frequently you'll have a premade on your side as well, just one that is not very good. On the other hand if you solo queue often i'm sure there's some names that if you see two of them in your team you know you're going to put up a fight no matter who you are facing.

 

I strongly believe it has never been about premades, it's all about the amount of good, average and bad players. If a premade contains 4 great players then yes, they are stacking the deck and we need to get very lucky with our team to have a shot, but most premades are not that good, and there are a lot of very good solo queuers, we just need to match the best solos in the queue against the good premades and it's gonna be a decent fight.

 

if i wasn't overly pessimistic about the game and especially about the future development of the game (i think i have every reason to be pessimistic), the perfect solution would be a hitten ranking attached to the player on which base pug matches are matched. Since i definitely hear year... most premade you see these days, arent all that great and i plenty of times have seen them defeated by pure pugs (or seemingly pure pugs, guild tags dont mean anything). But i have definitely seen decent players coordinating beautifully without voip, just because they know what to do. I have been on void with some excellent player that i consider way better than me, and way better that the average joe playing this game, and they didn't call anything or used complex tactics. They just did their stuff and joked arround.

 

Actually if you watch some of the old 8v8 ranked on streams where you get the sound of their mumble ts or what every, you might notice they actually dont talk as much as you would expect.

 

So matching good against good players and not yet so good against equally skilled is the only fair solution for maximal enjoyment (since you might wonder, those that play at the top level are actually quite bored just farming inexperienced players, it is no challenge, on of the reasons why the death of 8v8 made a lot of them leave the game). There is a quality difference, but everybody started with little skill at this (or another) game, and it would be one of the best feature if your entry into endgame pvp wouldnt be as harsh as it currently is - i remember my weeks of pain pretty well, where i had little to no clue on what to do -. I can sense that if somebody is new to endgame pvp and just tries it out the experience can be shocking, downing and deterring, so it would be a nice to have feature.

 

but it is not gonna happen, they have no plans for pvp, and soon people dont even have to worry about premades or good pvpers. This part of the game will simply die, or dumb down to a very low level. No further investment will come.

As has been pointed out many times in the this thread, no one is asking for grouping to be banned. What is being requested is that match making be instituted so that premades vs premades (or more precisely, competitive teams vs competitive teams) and pugs vs pugs.

 

Of course that is what is intended with the 2 existent queues, reg and ranked. However, when it comes to playing ranked and facing other teams that have the same advantages, friends apparently evaporate.

t's easy to conclude that "friends" are in abundance when it comes to easy mode wins vs pugs or sync queuing to gain an advantage in solo ranked, but are in very short supply when it comes to facing other teams on equal footing.

Pretending that match making would victimize grouping is just another specious argument.

 

Where did I say anything about matchmaking?

 

Actually matchmaking is the answer, not split ques. A group of four bads shouldnt be subjected to epeen overlords either. And as a yolo-que I shouldnt be subjected to bads or roflstompers either.

 

This lame *** thread has always been about matchmaking, or lack thereof.

Personally, for me, pre-mades are not the issue as there are many types and qualities of pre-mades. Some pre-mades are just guildies grouping to do some pvp, no thought to skill, communication, class balance between heals, dps, tanks, just grouping to group.

 

Then there are those teams that plan out have 2 tanks, 2 heals, and 4 dps and work to try and queue-sync.

 

And imo, pre-mades are not a problem. Just because someone chooses to run their pvp with the luck of the draw option. People shouldn't be penalized for having friends and wanting to queue together. No different than going to any kind of open gym for basketball or another sport. Some gyms just line people up and you count off (or luck of the draw). Some gyms let people form their own teams. Thus if you just line up, you could get stuck with 5 centers and no point guard. How is this good, and how is this good for the game.

 

Just as, the same can be said for entering a pvp match with no healers. How does that help you and your team win.

 

There should be some form of unranked, that at least tries to balance the scales and not have 4 healers vs 4 dps. The same would hold true for 8v8. Maybe a higher comms reward since the queue time might be longer.

Premades are still ruining warzones. It is not a subject for debate, it is provable by the very fact that me and others like me say so. Premades do ruin the warzone experience for many of us. If you don't believe me just read though the posts in this thread for proof that what I am saying is true.

Premades DO NOT ruin the fun of WZ's whether they are in 55 or 10-54. What DOES ruin the fun is people who quit at the first sign of trouble in the match. I have been in several matches (ill just use Civil War as an example) where if the team doesn't capture 2 turrets within 30s-1 minute people start to leave saying the match is unwinable. That ruins the WZ. Or perhaps people who just want to whine about how good they are but are sucking because of the team is ruining the WZ experience for all.

 

As for 55 pvp, what I think ruins it is the fact that 55 pvp gear cannot be purchased until you reach lvl 55. So you have to go through a curbstomping (unless you heal) before you can earn enough pieces to be successful. Now if 55 gear could be purchased at say lvl 53 but not worn till 55 i think that would see a lot more involvement in 55 WZ's

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

The problem with WZs is people who don't know how to play.

 

Premade means nothing. It's an advantage to have voice, but you don't need voice and it doesn't guarantee a win. If you understand the concept of the WZ chat is not necessary. You can check on a team mates status on the little map. If I see the guarded door in Voidstar has my guy running about I mouse over to see health. I'm always checking.

 

To be honest I wish there was a client chat like Eve Online has so that the ****** players could use it. Granted, In EvE you have to have voice. If it can help them so be it, but let's be honest... all you'd have is people cursing and belittling each other.

it is provable by the very fact that me and others like me say so.

You are not our mother, "because I said so" is not a valid argument here.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Zoom_VI

I believe necro'ing this thread should be worthy of capital punishment.

I don't think it's been necro'd. I've seen this thread before recently...somewhere...

I thought they deleted this thread.

Premades are still ruining warzones. It is not a subject for debate, it is provable by the very fact that me and others like me say so. Premades do ruin the warzone experience for many of us. If you don't believe me just read though the posts in this thread for proof that what I am saying is true.

 

By that logic, what I am saying is also true.

 

Warzones are only fun BECAUSE of premades.

 

When I'm in one, it's pretty nice.

 

When I am pugging with my buddy, and we beat one, and we shout "Nice FAILMADE bros!", it's pretty nice.

I thought they deleted this thread.

 

That was the "Bads are ruining warzones" thread, this one always rears it's head every couple months or so.

I thought they deleted this thread.

 

its what we all hope for but sadly no. Between the fighting, the guys namecalling anyone who disagrees or points out flaws in their "solo only que" idea ( like seriously I cannot get a decent response, instead of getting counters to those potential problems I get insulted as a "rofl-stomper" instead!!! its the reason I hate this thread, with them its "agree or your a pug stomping bad" I am sick of it!) and also when I point out that at least on my server premades are not that common at all, I barely ever encounter premades, but then again just more insults and snide comments than anything. Seriously, to the people arguing their point in this thread, stop treating everyone who finds some problem in your "solutions" like they are horrible people who are "ruining the game". I barely ever have pvped in a group, and yet oddly enough I am accused of doing in constantly, I hold no grudge against people who want to group and play together in pvp in an mmo, I just don't get a good group together often and mainly solo this thing.

By that logic, what I am saying is also true.

 

Warzones are only fun BECAUSE of premades.

 

When I'm in one, it's pretty nice.

 

When I am pugging with my buddy, and we beat one, and we shout "Nice FAILMADE bros!", it's pretty nice.

 

What you say is also true, but it is not true for all people.

 

Look at it this way. Let's say I am allergic to shellfish, and somebody tries to serve me a steak that is topped with shrimp. I say that adding the shrimp ruined the steak for me. You on the other hand love both steak and shrimp, so for you the steak may be even better because of the addition.

 

So you see, it is possible for two people to have completely different opinions, and for both people to be correct.

 

All that I am saying is that premades do ruin my experience, and I want the option to join a queue for regular warzones that will prevent me from having to play with them.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Exly

Brains, need more brains...

What you say is also true, but it is not true for all people.

 

Look at it this way. Let's say I am allergic to shellfish, and somebody tries to serve me a steak that is topped with shrimp. I say that adding the shrimp ruined the steak for me. You on the other hand love both steak and shrimp, so for you the steak may be even better because of the addition.

 

So you see, it is possible for two people to have completely different opinions, and for both people to be correct.

 

All that I am saying is that premades do ruin my experience, and I want the option to join a queue for regular warzones that will prevent me from having to play with them.

 

I am going to step on a very thin branch and say that having a shellfish allergy isn't really an opinion but a hard fact which isn't like this opinionated thread.

I am going to step on a very thin branch and say that having a shellfish allergy isn't really an opinion but a hard fact which isn't like this opinionated thread.

 

this is a good point this thread is over a debatable topic, an allergy is clearly not debatable, so a comparison between the two is illogical.

I am going to step on a very thin branch and say that having a shellfish allergy isn't really an opinion but a hard fact which isn't like this opinionated thread.

 

Ok, I see you spit on my steak, and I say that you ruined it, then you cut in to it and say that it tastes perfectly good to you. Once again, both people can be right even if they do not share the same opinion as each other.

Ok, I see you spit on my steak, and I say that you ruined it, then you cut in to it and say that it tastes perfectly good to you. Once again, both people can be right even if they do not share the same opinion as each other.

 

I am sensing a lot of hostility in this due to the spitting comment. Plus again you cannot compare this at all to spitting on someones steak which is very unsanitary and a huge sign of disrespect that is definitely exaggerated.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Sangrar

I am sensing a lot of hostility in this due to the spitting comment. Plus again you cannot compare this at all to spitting on someones steak whichi s very unsanitary and a huge sign of disrespect that is definitely exaggerated.

 

Not at all. I just needed to shift the focus of my augment to help make my point. I talked about a ruined steak and one reason that I might believe that it was ruined. Then people chose to focus on the reason that I had given instead of the fact that it is possible for two (or more) people to have different opinions about things like this, and for everyone's opinion to be true. So I changed the reason to something that I thought that everybody could understand.

Ok, I see you spit on my steak, and I say that you ruined it, then you cut in to it and say that it tastes perfectly good to you. Once again, both people can be right even if they do not share the same opinion as each other.

 

Who would eat a steak that someone spit on...knowingly? Where do you keep coming up with these terrible analogies?