Unfortunately people are working hard for the records threads here, so most vets have no mercy... it is an occasion to increase kill/death ratio, beat damage per second record, etc.

And if they are scaring newbies? Most people don't care.

Unfortunately people are working hard for the records threads here, so most vets have no mercy... it is an occasion to increase kill/death ratio, beat damage per second record, etc.

And if they are scaring newbies? Most people don't care.

It isn't about having mercy, I was on the winning side, and stopped firing torps when every one of them landed. It's just to easy. I still finished tward the top and I'm not even In that kind of match most vets won't have any deaths so the kd ratio increases anyway.

If that's how the records are being set then whats the point? It is just who gets lucky enough to have more easy matches.

Unfortunately people are working hard for the records threads here, so most vets have no mercy... it is an occasion to increase kill/death ratio, beat damage per second record, etc.

And if they are scaring newbies? Most people don't care.

Not to burst your bubble or rain on your crusade, but the matches most conducive for setting records are ones that last long enough to rack up an impressive total in any particular statistical category. Brutal 3-caps are over so fast you're lucky to get in 10-15 kills before the game is over. Similarly, 50-0 TDM maulings usually wind up with the kills evenly spread out amongst the strong side. Records are set in the 50-49 matches where each side has one or two strong players and a lot of weaker or inexperienced ones. There are edge cases to the contrary, of course, but mostly not.

I've played lopsided games where I suggested my team even just stop shooting for a bit and fly around to let them try to hit us. Ultimately, I've come to the conclusion that in TDM, if you're against an inexperienced team the only way a veteran can even the playing field is by quitting the match. I don't quit matches, so I've resigned myself to just play it out at my usual level of competition. I will often take out an unmastered ship, though, in such matches... for what good it does.

Domination matches are a little different. I know that there's a philosophical divide on whether to 3-cap or not. Ultimately I urge against it, but there are times that the other side can't even mount a coherent effort to capture one sat, or recognize that one is left undefended. Many veterans will back off and let a hopeless team hold a sat. I do it in hopes that they will get some points, upgrade their ships, and not feel like they wasted 15min of their life even more than they would have under better circumstances. I'd rather have new players get a better taste of the game than a continual stream of exploding, personally.

As a veteran, and one that pops up on the record lists, I prefer matches of evenly skilled teams, by far. Anything we can do to make that better is a step in a healthy direction for GSF.

- Despon

If that's how the records are being set then whats the point? It is just who gets lucky enough to have more easy matches.

Well, yes and no. That's my general reason for not being about the records thread, but consider: to get a match where you can score really high, you play a TON of games, against good and bad pilots, and when you DO get the game where you can push the enemy over, you have to execute it properly.

I just don't play GSF because of uneven matches anymore.

Professional football players against a team of amateurs - for the profesionals that's more than fine, because this way they have easier wins.

Other SWTOR servers might be more lucky, but not mine.

Unfortunately people are working hard for the records threads here, so most vets have no mercy... it is an occasion to increase kill/death ratio, beat damage per second record, etc.

And if they are scaring newbies? Most people don't care.

No, it's not records on this forum that make people "have no mercy". The people participating in the records threads are a very small minority spread out worldwide over a lot of servers. Also "having no mercy" does have nothing to do with uneven matches because in an even match there also can be situations where some people get farmed.

I just don't play GSF because of uneven matches anymore.

 

Professional football players against a team of amateurs - for the profesionals that's more than fine, because this way they have easier wins.

 

Other SWTOR servers might be more lucky, but not mine.

On my server there are maybe 10-20 good pilots - usually 4-6 online at the same time. Most of them fly in groups of 2-4. If you run into them and don't have good pilots in your team, the match will be uneven. As long as there aren't cross realm queues it's not possible to make a tiered matchmaking because of the lack of good pilots on a server.

The veterans aren't the only part of the problem. The other part are pilots who don't want to improve themselves and refuse to do teamwork. I've seen pilots with 300+ games fly like they just played ten. I whispered some of them if they want/need help with GSF, they can ask me and I never got a response. And those pilots aren't the worst. In almost every game there are a small amount of people not contributing at all or sometimes even working against their own team.

Concerning the quote in your signature AlrikFassbauer: I don't agree with the balance part of it. The game needs to balance classes around PvP because in PvE it's easier to balance the content than the classes. I agree with the content part. There should be more PvP content, especially GSF.

Not to burst your bubble or rain on your crusade, but the matches most conducive for setting records are ones that last long enough to rack up an impressive total in any particular statistical category (...)

One battle records - I agree. However, total stats records will suffer if the 'ace' shows mercy for newbies and lower his slaughter rate...

One battle records - I agree. However, total stats records will suffer if the 'ace' shows mercy for newbies and lower his slaughter rate...

I will dispute that again. Longer matches are more favorable for maintaining a higher total (career) average in kills, assists, and damage. In a total wipeout 3-cap it is a struggle to record more than 30k damage or top 15 total kills + assists. The game just ends too quickly, and the enemy team is often so disorganized that you have to chase all over the map to pick up stats. The only stat that is likely to benefit from blowouts in either TDM or domination is Kill to Death Ratio... so you have one case of a stat that is going to benefit from blowouts and about a dozen that are negatively impacted by them. Blowouts suck for everyone, including veterans shooting for records.

From my experience, I would say that the most bloodthirsty players are the moderately skilled pilots who are good enough to whomp on a team of noobs, but can't compete against veterans. Maybe they take out their frustrations on the inexperienced teams, but whenever I post in OPS to call off a 3-cap, it's the guy who ends up with a line like 3-10-2, 20k damage that is the one who is all NO MERCY!!!!

There are some veteran teams who apply Verain's "I respect you too much to stop blowing you up' ethos but for the most part they are the exception across the many servers I play on and not the rule.

It is difficult to engineer even matches, but there are some things that you can try.

If one side has all the aces, try to recruit a few to go with you to the opposite faction so it is evened out more. Sadly, this does not guarantee that you will wind up queued against the other good team, but it can help. Even two or three experienced players on a team can make a huge difference.

Get people into the server's GSF/pilot channel. Offer them advice, share your experience if you're a veteran. Point them to the forum, point them to Drak's Twitch stream. If they care about improving, inexperienced players have lots of tools to learn from. It's the ones that don't care and just drift through matches in a heap of smoking wreckage that are the problem.

- Despon

I always switch to "weaker" ships in matches that lopsided - not yet mastered out Bloodmark, Rycer, Blackbolt or Imperium to simultaneously give myself a challenge and the other team a chance to practice firing at me/locking missiles.

But even if you deliberately don't 3-cap them, what good does it do if you then see the entire enemy team humping their sole satellite and not moving an inch or trying to practice flying maneuvers? You only prolong the suffering for them as well as the boredom for your own team. I see this often enough, it's very saddening...

Me and the people I fly alongside most of the time do all we can to change the aspects of the matches - if we're dominating Imp-Side for two matches in a row, we switch to Rep-Side to give the others the satisfaction and desperately needed points and vice versa.

If we then end up in a wargame against the very same guys we beat earlier, it's not our fault - it's the questionable matchmaking-system. More often we even face a similar group of new players, now on the other side and may be switching back after that match. There is only so much you can do...

I will dispute that again. Longer matches are more favorable for maintaining a higher total (career) average in kills, assists, and damage. (...)

in TDM with 'aces vs newbs' - no. If you show mercy, the newb will be killed for someone else, denying you the point.

In Domination - sure, the best tactic for stats is to cap one sat (or no cap at all) then spawncamp. However, this will be also as frustrating for new players. Losing ;0:100 with no chance to fly to the sat at all will give the same frustration (maybe even more, since people KNOW that they are being farmed) than losing 0:1000.

In a total wipeout 3-cap it is a struggle to record more than 30k damage or top 15 total kills + assists. The game just ends too quickly, and the enemy team is often so disorganized that you have to chase all over the map to pick up stats. The only stat that is likely to benefit from blowouts in either TDM or domination is Kill to Death Ratio... so you have one case of a stat that is going to benefit from blowouts and about a dozen that are negatively impacted by them. Blowouts suck for everyone, including veterans shooting for records.

From my experience, I would say that the most bloodthirsty players are the moderately skilled pilots who are good enough to whomp on a team of noobs, but can't compete against veterans. Maybe they take out their frustrations on the inexperienced teams, but whenever I post in OPS to call off a 3-cap, it's the guy who ends up with a line like 3-10-2, 20k damage that is the one who is all NO MERCY!!!!

On Red Eclipse I have seen some guest characters joining Repside (that has a major advantage) then bragging about their stats. And they were pretty good players... so it isn't true for all situations.

About 'to 3 cap or not to 3 cap' - I'd say - leave B or A/C in Denon - and 3-cap. Cap and fly away - so the other side can learn that it is better to stick to sat than chase you... however, this is my opinion only.

The problem with "switching to weaker ships" is that we have only 5 slots in hangar. Since someone who mostly ques solo has to be prepared for any situation, having even one weaker ships hurt their

in TDM with 'aces vs newbs' - no. If you show mercy, the newb will be killed for someone else, denying you the point.

In "aces vs noobs" the aces will have a hard time to get a record at all, because there's simply not enough ships to kill and things to do for all the members of team ace, no matter if tdm or dom.

In "aces vs noobs" the aces will have a hard time to get a record at all, because there's simply not enough ships to kill and things to do for all the members of team ace, no matter if tdm or dom.

I was talking mostly about stats records one game with not going optimal - your stats are lowered.

I was talking mostly about stats records one game with not going optimal - your stats are lowered.

I'm still in the list of some of the stats records - I submitted 6 records and 4 are still listed. And I didn't even take a look on the stats page before. If my records still are listed and I know of myself I'm a lazy pilot, rarely doing more than necessary to win, there can't be so many other pilots spread out worldwide going for records that it hurts the gameplay of others. Also I'm certain the few people going for records are less harmful to the gameplay than the neverending masses of afkers, leechers and "don't want to improve myself"-pilots.

I played my last GSF match earlier, i will not be queueing again for a while.

I play on TRE and i do not and will never consider anyone playing "with friends" (premades) a Vet or Pro. Likewise to the people posting ï've won 80% of games etc etc" (premade). I have played Counter-Strike since beta 6.5, from gameplay ladders to clanbase and IOA leagues. I know all too well the MASSIVE benefit that voice communications brings...and i know when they are being used too.

I returned to the game 2-3 weeks ago and flew 2 stock ships, i now have 4 with some decent upgrades. I gave it a good go but I'm simply not going to be farmed.

Before anyone says "find your own premade" this is something i will not do as i do not agree with it. I like competitive game play, even, fair. Using voice communications and maxed out ships against an unorganized and group of random players does not make you a Vet or Pro.

GSF is dying out on TRE becausse of the Rep premades, as 80% of the time they are most certainly fielding one.

Hah been a while since we've had an anti-premade whiner around here.

I played my last GSF match earlier, i will not be queueing again.

If you don't like it, you don't like it. You shouldn't be playing something you don' like anyway.

I play on TRE and i do not and will never consider anyone playing "with friends" (premades) a Vet or Pro.

Let's get the terminology right first:

Vet (veteran): A player with many games under his/her belt and a good understanding of the game (not necessarily highly skilled, but usually is).

Pro (professional): Someone who is playing for money, though the term is often used for highly skilled players.

NOTE: People that are only good at massacring noobs/newbs are almost never called "Pro" by this community.

Likewise to the people posting ï've won 80% of games etc etc" (premade). I have played Counter-Strike since beta 6.5, from gameplay ladders to clanbase and IOA leagues. I know all too well the MASSIVE benefit that voice communications brings...and i know when they are being used too.

That's great, and oh-so-very incorrect.

We are a rather small community on most servers and players that have been flying for a while already know how others fly and adapt to it. What may seem like voice comm to you is merely people with brains, situational awareness and a good understanding of the game.

I returned to the game 2-3 weeks ago and flew 2 stock ships, i now have 4 with some decent upgrades. I gave it a good go but I'm simply not going to be farmed.

So you expect to be carried?

Before anyone says "find your own premade" this is something i will not do as i do not agree with it. I like competitive game play, even, fair.

So you say you like competitive game play, but you won't find your own to be competitive?

Using voice communications and maxed out ships against an unorganized and group of random players does not make you a Vet or Pro.

Explained earlier

GSF will die soon on TRE becausse of the Rep premades.

Wish i had a $ every time someone said that.

I played my last GSF match earlier, i will not be queueing again for a while.

 

I play on TRE and i do not and will never consider anyone playing "with friends" (premades) a Vet or Pro. Likewise to the people posting ï've won 80% of games etc etc" (premade). I have played Counter-Strike since beta 6.5, from gameplay ladders to clanbase and IOA leagues. I know all too well the MASSIVE benefit that voice communications brings...and i know when they are being used too.

 

I returned to the game 2-3 weeks ago and flew 2 stock ships, i now have 4 with some decent upgrades. I gave it a good go but I'm simply not going to be farmed.

 

Before anyone says "find your own premade" this is something i will not do as i do not agree with it. I like competitive game play, even, fair. Using voice communications and maxed out ships against an unorganized and group of random players does not make you a Vet or Pro.

 

GSF is dying out on TRE becausse of the Rep premades, as 80% of the time they are most certainly fielding one.

/lol

I'm queueing solo 75% of my matches. I have 77% win ratio. 3.8-4 KDR and I fly a Blackbolt (the starting scout) with a build carefully made around trolling people (EMP Field or Sabo Charge). I've yet to run with my usual TT+Pods+StE on my current toon (Nämëlëss on Jedi Covenant) and I still kick asses, have an above average KDR and enough skill to fight any aces on my server to at least a stalemate (most usually give up if I go evasive on a Blackbolt... I'm way too annoying to kill). When I queue in group, we don't use voice or coordinate.. We're just flying together to have reliable teamates able to carry their own weight. Nothing more.

TLDR L2P

I don't really think the overall stats thread pushes noob farming much. Most of the posted numbers are not particularly shocking. The exception might be for the two glory ships (T1 GS and T2 Scout), where the numbers for kills and damage are both pretty high. But all the pilots listed in those categories that I've flown against are excellent. And I find it perfectly believable that they got those numbers without noob farming. At the end of the day, the 100 game requirement is a pretty high barrier to entry, and I doubt that anyone is trying to farm people in say, a Pike, just to get on the records list.

Besides that whole thread is kind of interesting. It shows how people fly over time while demonstrating the effect of premades versus solo queue on stats like win%, KDR, and damage per game. If I ever get my act together, I'd contribute to it, to help fill out some of the ship categories and provide more data points. But it's going to take me a while to sort through the stats on all the different ships and I just haven't gotten around to it.

As for mismatches, I, like most everyone else, haven't really found a good solution. I'll pull punches in a lot of cases, but it doesn't seem to really help. Time to kill is still really fast with just lasers if your target never goes evasive. And noobs eat torpedoes like they are power ups, turning the lowly double torpedo dustmaker into a fearsome engine of doom. It lets them get their feet wet for sure. And, in the absence of a real tutorial, maybe it does more than I'm giving it credit for. But at some point they have to learn to deal with huge chunks of burst damage. And I kind of feel like I'm teaching them a watered down version of the game. I guess it's worth it if it gets them past their first few games and piques their interest.

There are small things you can try to do. I try to give them an area to dogfight in that isn't right on top of their cap ships, and provides decent cover from gunship fire, so that the games aren't too demoralizing. And I've found that if you ask your team to give them B in domination, so it's harder for you to defend, the games can sometimes be more fun. But it mostly doesn't make a difference. Often, if it goes on for more than a game or two, I'll just switch sides to try and help out the undermanned side.

As for flying solo against stacked teams, that's going to happen if you solo queue. Even if everyone on the other side is solo queuing, it's still going to happen on occasion. I actually really enjoy those games. Just think of it as turning the difficulty level up to Nightmare. It's PvP, you're going to die. Sometimes you are going to die a lot. And, as a wiser man than me once said, "if you aren't dying, you aren't trying."

I like competitive game play, even, fair. Using voice communications and maxed out ships against an unorganized and group of random players does not make you a Vet or Pro.

Ever thought that people maybe queue together simply to get queue pops faster? If I queue solo, I may have to wait between 15 to 30 mins depending on the current time and number of people in queue.

Most of the time when I am on voicechat with others we don't even coordinate in any way whatsoever - everyone flies the ship he/she wants to play at the moment and everyone goes where he/she wants to go...if there is any talking at all during the match, it's mostly just a bit of trashtalk.

Enough with the rumours about double-premades coordinating every step in games vs. new players...

About using maxed out ships against an inferior opponent: As i have stated before, blame the matchmaking-system and not the players who already invested a good deal of time into their ships' equipment.

For example, you wouldn't use only an unupgraded pistol without any perks in a BF4-Game just because "there may be noobs on the other team" instead of bringing your top notch sniper with optimal perks etc.

Also we can't switch out any components as soon as we are actually in the match, so again: blame the game, not the people actually actively playing it.

And lastly, if you queue solo you might want to assume that there will be times you get roflstomped by teams - just like in any competitive game like LoL for example. Anyone REALLY wanting to be counted among the top players in those games WILL join a coordinated squad at one time or another, that's just it.

Actually, GSF doesn't even have a ladder system of any kind, so the same rules do not apply here anyways...

If the game is so lopsided that a three cap is possible then you might as well do it to end the game faster. Maybe the match maker will do a better job next time and everyone can actually have some fun.

Purposely giving the other team a satellite is stupid because it prolongs boring games. If you are worried about not getting enough XP in one match then just queue up and play again.

Purposely giving the other team a satellite is stupid because it prolongs boring games. If you are worried about not getting enough XP in one match then just queue up and play again.

What often seems to happen, unsurprisingly, is when a team gets wiped off the face of the map, those people stop queuing because they (perhaps rightfully) anticipate getting wiped off the face of the map again, and that gets pretty tiring after a while. On some servers, you can say 'big deal, there's plenty more where that came from' and be reasonably assured of another match popping. On many servers, if the inexperienced people stop queuing the matches stop for everyone. So, if you have to 'endure' not obliterating someone to ensure you at least get to keep playing, it seems like a small tradeoff to me.

There's the long term health of the game to consider, too. If there was cross-server or some other solution to concentrate the players into one pool for the matchmaker to draw from, it would be one story, but there's not. Discouraging people from playing is destructive.

- Despon

What often seems to happen, unsurprisingly, is when a team gets wiped off the face of the map, those people stop queuing because they (perhaps rightfully) anticipate getting wiped off the face of the map again, and that gets pretty tiring after a while. On some servers, you can say 'big deal, there's plenty more where that came from' and be reasonably assured of another match popping. On many servers, if the inexperienced people stop queuing the matches stop for everyone. So, if you have to 'endure' not obliterating someone to ensure you at least get to keep playing, it seems like a small tradeoff to me.

 

There's the long term health of the game to consider, too. If there was cross-server or some other solution to concentrate the players into one pool for the matchmaker to draw from, it would be one story, but there's not. Discouraging people from playing is destructive.

 

- Despon

It's nice that people want to take it easy on rookies. I'm sure all of us want to see the rookies improve, and more new rookies come in. But how far do you take it, and does it really help? Should I park my ship near the middle and let some rookie shoot me down?

Let's say a team of rookies get slaughtered, 50-4. Then they see that two guys on the winning team had 0 kills. They're going to realize, not only were they hopelessly outclassed, but 2 guys on the other team weren't even trying. In Domination, it's equally obvious if the strong team purposely does not attack the third satellite. Great. The aces are toying with you, please keep queuing.

I suggest to just play the game naturally, and switch faction after the match if it looks like an unstoppable winning streak otherwise. In Domination, it may be obvious but I will sometimes just sit stationary under the same satellite the whole match. In Deathmatch, nothing makes sense to me but to just go and kill them all.