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PvP and PvE Armor Design: Why Bioware's Design Aesthetic is Fundamentally Flawed


TitusVorenus

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What follows is intended as a sober, mature discussion on the nature of Bioware's armor designs. This is not a QQ thread. This is not a "Ya screw Bioware they are teh sux!" thread. This is not a "I love WoW" thread. If you can't bother to take the time to read, then don't bother posting "TLDR" because it does not make you "cool".

 

Many of us--certainly what seems to be by all means a very large majority--are very disappointed with the designs for the PvP and PvE endgame armor sets. Almost all of them are ostentatious, with dramatic spikes or horns or other fluff and coming in a bewildering array of bright colors. In this respect, it seems clear that Bioware's design team--for all the other cool-looking things they've come up with--has overreached in their creativity, not necessarily out of malice but certainly, it seems, out of ignorance.

 

From another thread:

 

The whole draw of Star Wars, at least conceptually, was that it was specifically designed as a "lived-in universe" or a "used universe". Up to that point virtually all science fiction was depicted as clean and shiny and looking as if it had been built the day before, while the Star Wars universe is dirty and grungy and despite its futuristic nature holds an undeniable logic in its design. Contrast, for example, the various iterations of the Enterprise from Star Trek--which is invariably pretty and spotless--against the beat-up, grimey X-Wings and Y-Wings of the Rebel Alliance. Rebel troopers wear white on Hoth and green/brown on Endor because Hoth is white and Endor is green/brown; they're not catassing around in neon orange or yellow.

 

That's why these 1.2 designs--almost all of which are ludicrously over-the-top--are so jarring and seem so out of place: it's because they are out of place. The aesthetic is completely wrong, and the designers have really, really missed the mark here.

 

The exact terminology used by George Lucas--and whatever you feel about him, he is undeniably where the buck stops in regards to Star Wars-- was the "used future". The "used future", as this article explains, is

 

"...a future that was meant to be experienced as reality rather than fantasy. The Star Wars future was not showroom shiny but dented and rusty, as if it had hard use on the back roads on innumerable galaxies. Lucas told an interviewer during production in England that the Apollo casules may have looked brand new when they soared away, but it was clear when they returned that the interior was littered with candy wrappers, empty Tang cans, and other trash, just like the family station wagon."

 

The article goes on with this image of the Millenium Falcon--"What a piece of junk!"--and crumpled-up scrap metal, along with this excerpt from artist John Powers:

 

A flying saucer had never been a slum before. The immaculate silver sheen of the saucer was reinvented as a dingy Dumpster full of boiler parts, dirty dishes, and decomposing upholstery. Lucas’s visual program not only captured the stark utopian logic that girded modern urban planning, it surpassed it.

 

And, straight from Mr. Lucas himself:

 

“I was working very hard to keep everything nonsymmetrical. Nothing looks like it belongs with anything else.... It’s a very common thing in science fiction to see a set that has one influence. Everything matches. The chairs match the table, match the rug, match the design of the doors, match the door handle, match the lamps. I wanted it to look like one thing came from one part of the galaxy and another from another part of the galaxy.”

 

 

 

A man who--brilliantly--understood precisely what Mr. Lucas was going for was, of course, the legendary late Ralph McQuarrie--and it is obvious that he understood it from the very beginning, as the stunning slideshow on this page shows. As a separate article explains:

 

McQuarrie’s great achievement with his Star Wars designs, and his enduring legacy for all of science fiction, was his pioneering of the “used future” aesthetic. Whereas most previous sci-fi — from the borderline camp of Star Trek to the experimental visions of 2001: A Space Odyssey — featured environments that were scrubbed clean, brightly lit, often monochromatic, and generally antiseptic, McQuarrie’s “used future” designs for Star Wars imagined a lived-in galaxy that was gritty, dirty, and in advance states of decay. In short, the perfect home for ever more freaky forms of scum and villainy. And, yet because of his laser-focused attention to that Galaxy Far, Far Away’s grainy details, McQuarrie’s Star Wars concept art also possesses an element of surrealism. One famous design, showing prototype versions of C-3PO and R2-D2 against the craggy Jundland Wastes of Tatooine, best exemplifies his style: strongly geometric subjects rendered in muted colors against a flat, purposefully compressed backdrop. A McQuarrie Star Wars design looks like what would have resulted if Salvador Dali had sketched concepts for Universal’s 1936 Flash Gordon serial by way of Sergio Leone’s Old West.

 

McQuarrie's designs are not only starkly beautiful, but because they hold such a strong sense of "realism" it is immediately obvious what everything is when you see it. An X-Wing--a super-fantastical exaggeration of period jet fighter design design--could be nothing else than a starfighter. The Imperial Star Destroyer immediately says "battleship" because it was influenced by First World War battleships. Imperial uniforms are modeled after German designs from both World Wars; both the design and the heavy use of feldgrau (or "field-gray") obviously signifies them as "the bad guys", even if we're not consciously aware of it. As previously mentioned, Rebel soldiers wear white on Hoth because it is a snowy, icy environment and green/brown on Endor because it is a forested environment. Even stormtrooper armor has its own inherent logic: they're supposed to be scary, intimidating, and soulless. (It's worth pointing out that, though it's not obvious in the movies, stormtroopers are not actually the base footsoldiers of the Imperial Army--they're a separate organization, and supposed to represent an elite).

 

 

The upshot of all this is that, for all its fantastical nature, everything in Star Wars is firmly grounded in a form of reality, allowing us to accept them without a second thought because things just look the way they're "supposed" to. We can see ourselves piloting an X-Wing, or running around on a battlefield in stormtrooper armor.

 

But these designs from Bioware? What idiot is going to run around a battlefield filled with laser beams and walking tanks in bright yellow or orange--and not get exhausted because the armor is the size of a small car? How can a Jedi and a Sith (who, mind you, are almost always depicted wearing nothing more than simple robes) be expected to have a kinetic duel with each other when they can't see anything and they're worried about their oversized helmets falling off? We don't believe in the designs because the designs aren't believable.

 

incidentally, I will point out that we shouldn't be too harsh on Bioware, because they are only following industry precedent in making their designs ever more over-the-top and fanciful. Knights are always running around in full Gothic armor when they mostly looked like this. As a military historian and historical reenactor (I'll point out that you can trust me when I say that armor is already heavy enough as it is, it does not need to be made heavier for the sake of miscellaneous doodads), I always find it appalling and disappointing--especially because there are so many existing looks in the historical record which look so much better. Consider, for example, these two accurate depictionsof an elite, wealthy triarius and a younger, poorer hastatus from a Republican Roman legion (respectively). Don't they already look awesome? Do they really need to be made "moar 1337"?

 

But I digress.

 

I think what's most disappointing about these crazy designs is that so many other places in the game, Bioware nails it. All the starships look like they belong, from the high-tech prototype Agent ship to the beat-up Trooper one. From levels 1-49 Jedi and Sith run around in robes and Troopers run around in clean, efficient armor--contrasted with the more garish, but still clearly functional, armor of Bounty Hunters. We interact with Imperial NPC's wearing neofascist uniforms, and we fight Republic soldiers in sleek body armor.

 

But all that changes at level 50. Yes, we can now--thankfully--swap out mods (though not, of course, for ugly Recruit gear, which for many people who can't afford or don't want to grind warzones is the best armor they can get), but that is prohibitively expensive to do and it still does not excuse the appalling designs of the gear itself. Bioware's design team needs to get back to the nitty-gritty, not the ridiculous.

 

I said it before, and I will say it again:

We don't believe in the designs because the designs aren't believable.

 

Thank you for your time.

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Thanks OP for a very nice write up, couldn't have said it better myself and I fully agree.

 

I think one of the most interesting (and IMO valid) points made, is that much of the armor pre-50 looks spot on and in many ways more "epic" than the post-50 stuff which supposedly should give the impression of your character being BA.

 

Like OP pointed out, ship design is IMO spot on (props to those involved, great job!) in SWTOR and so is the majority of concepts for the NPC armors. In fact, I would argue that many NPC's wear stuff looking a lot more epic than the player end-game gear.

 

Working with an existing and well established IP such as Star Wars, of course has it's challenges. On the other hand, since it is so well known and has been around for so long, it shouldn't really be that hard for any good designer to come up with concepts that fit well within the context while still being original.

 

IMO, the main problem with the current 1.2 high-end gear is that it simply doesn't fit in. The designs are generally too far out there and you get the feeling the designers haven't really done their research and looked at the actual world these are being placed into. Much of it just looks too much horror-fantasy, is too extravagant, has proportions all over the place and last but not least, does not seem to take any regard whatsoever to being practical. The latter is basically a cardinal sin when working with the Star Wars universe IMO.

 

I know it's really easy for us self-declared "online experts" to criticize and complain...but while that is true we who do that still have eyes and many of us have more or less been growing up with Star Wars, making us very familiar with the IP which also makes us notice when something seems "off".

 

While I can appreciate the designers wanting to "take it to the next level", I personally don't think that's the way to go. Instead of trying to create something completely new, I think you should stick to what works and then iterate on that instead. Be creative, but do it while being firmly rooted in the established IP. It's a challenge, sure...but the abundance of other great designs in SWTOR is proof that it's possible. You've done it before, so perhaps it's time to go back to the basics a bit?

 

SE

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Good job OP on a well thought out thread.

 

I feel that there's some kind of disconnect between what BioWare artists are designing versus what we know Star Wars looks like.

 

Hope you don't mind, but I "fixed" that for you. :p

 

On a more serious note though, my point is that this is not just about a purely subjective "feeling", it's actually a very specific design and artstyle which in itself is something pretty concrete and distinct. There are rules and measures in design which apply here as well and there is indeed such a thing as an overall "Star Warsy" look. At least enough so for roughly noticing whether something does fit in or not so much. I'm not a full-time designer myself, but I dare say I think many professional designers out there would agree at least to an extent.

 

SE

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I agree OP. I remember before the game's release (for example) Bioware was talking about how the jedi knights should look. They said dark, earthy colors, with a robe or a cape.(Referring to Guardian armor mostly but Sentinel armor is the same except a different color) The level 50 knight armor is pathetic. The war hero armor for PvP looks like a bright yellow and red scuba diver. The Battlemaster gear doesn't come with a robe or cape or anything like they said it was supposed to be. I'm sure this is true for all the other classes as well. The level 40 PvP Gear for guardian looks just fine but the level 50 pathetic. For all the warzone grinding and work we do to get the armor we should at least be rewarded with a decent looking set, not a red and yellow astronaut. I looked at the other war hero armors for level 50's and they are pathetic as well. I don't see how the design team at Bioware actually said "Yep, It looks good let's put it in the game". I also hope BioWare addresses this issue soon.
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I agree OP. I remember before the game's release (for example) Bioware was talking about how the jedi knights should look. They said dark, earthy colors, with a robe or a cape.(Referring to Guardian armor mostly but Sentinel armor is the same except a different color) The level 50 knight armor is pathetic. The war hero armor for PvP looks like a bright yellow and red scuba diver. The Battlemaster gear doesn't come with a robe or cape or anything like they said it was supposed to be. I'm sure this is true for all the other classes as well. The level 40 PvP Gear for guardian looks just fine but the level 50 pathetic. For all the warzone grinding and work we do to get the armor we should at least be rewarded with a decent looking set, not a red and yellow astronaut. I looked at the other war hero armors for level 50's and they are pathetic as well. I don't see how the design team at Bioware actually said "Yep, It looks good let's put it in the game". I also hope BioWare addresses this issue soon.

 

It could be worse :(

My sith sorc is full rakata and looks ridiculous.

Huge triangular shoulder pads, weird, starched butt cover, and a downright goofy helm.

To top it all off, my sorc is female, so she's got her midriff showing.

And this latest tier is even more worse looking, if that 's even possible.

 

I thought I was supposed to inspire fear, not laughter :(

 

It's a shame, because a lot of the leveling gear looks great, with dark colored robes, and cool, sithy body armor tops with cloth robe bottoms. Did the 1-49 designers get kidnapped or something?

Edited by Beslley
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Thank you! I think well thought out threads like this carry more weight than the traditional "Why u sux Bioware at doing the gear??????"

 

Bioware has to understand that the vast majority of the community is displeased with post 50 gear, and for good reason. It's not like the people speaking there minds on this subject are roaming trolls that hate everything that moves. The people speaking up are true fans SWTOR and everything Star Wars. As the OP stated so well, its not a matter of personal opinion, its a matter of the gear not logically fitting into the Star Wars universe.

 

I would take it even further and say that some of the post 50 gear does not logically fit in any universe. Why is a smuggler wearing a cape? I would say that being inconspicuous is a pretty high priority for a smuggler. So why would a person that is trying to not draw attention to themselves be wearing the most attention grabbing piece of attire in the galaxy?

Edited by CharleyDanger
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Excellent post. You clearly put a lot of thought and heart behind it.

 

I largely agree with it too.

 

It seems the problem is that they feel obligated to make something over the top and "EPIC" at 50, rather than just continuing with the tried and true Star Wars aesthetic that was portrayed in large 1-49.

Edited by DarthBastila
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The weirdest thing is how they got everything right in the Character Progression videos and in most of the 1-49 stuff but got everything REALLY wrong in the 50 stuff. It looks like they were made by different artists.

 

And they don't lack material to make awesome stuff.

They could use old Jedi / Sith armors to make tier stuff.

 

A few examples:

 

Jedis during the Great Sith War:

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/0/00/FNU.jpg

 

the Sith during the Great Sith War:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080417013418/starwars/images/thumb/5/54/KunBHotS.JPG/404px-KunBHotS.JPG

 

Ulic and Cay Qel-Droma

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071018122114/starwars/images/thumb/5/54/Ulicqeldromaversuscay.JPG/429px-Ulicqeldromaversuscay.JPG

 

More Jedis during the Great Sith War

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091027042108/starwars/images/thumb/d/d9/Barrison_Draay_portrait.jpg/421px-Barrison_Draay_portrait.jpg

 

Check this armor of Exar Kun, it could've been a perfect SIth Inquisitor endgame armor:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071219031555/starwars/images/thumb/c/c3/ExarKunspirit_egtf.jpg/630px-ExarKunspirit_egtf.jpg

 

Those are all great examples on how to create functional and canon force user armors for Tiers.

 

Or they could draw inspiration from older sources like the Great Hyperspace War:

 

A Battle Scene:

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/f/f3/Great_Hyperspace_War.jpg

 

See how the Jedi are using armored robes and the Sith are using their traditional golden armor.

 

XoXan and Karness Muur both have some great iconic armor too:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100810190403/starwars/images/thumb/1/1b/Xoxaan_Muur.jpg/364px-Xoxaan_Muur.jpg

 

And just throwing some ideas out:

 

Look at this armor, this is Haazen, a Sith Acolyte:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080605222924/starwars/images/thumb/b/b6/SWKOTOR33.jpg/325px-SWKOTOR33.jpg

 

He could be the perfect Sith Sorcerer. It's menacing and simple at the same time. Darth Bandon, Sion, Malak and Revan all wore simple armors and yet they inspired fear and dread.

 

Marka Ragnos, Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow. All three wore different clothes and yet they didn't look like space clowns. They had horns, spikes and cloaks and yet it was functional and didn't look like a mismatched set:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080718142615/starwars/images/c/c8/LudoVsSadow.jpg

 

Now, focusing on the Jedi:

 

This is Lord Hoth, Jedi Master of the Army of Light:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090604184621/starwars/images/thumb/3/3a/Lord_Hoth_EGTTF.jpg/333px-Lord_Hoth_EGTTF.jpg

 

His armor is almost roman. And very cool.

 

 

Here we have Master Vodo-Siosk:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091013151907/starwars/images/thumb/2/28/Basspotj2.JPG/361px-Basspotj2.JPG

 

See how he wears mostly robes, brown robes. He is a really powerful master and yet he don't need to dress as a clown. This fella used a wooden staff to fight LIGHTSABERS.

 

This is Nomi Sunrider:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080414033032/starwars/images/thumb/7/76/Nomi_Force.JPG/406px-Nomi_Force.JPG

 

Her armor is simple and yet beautiful.

 

And finally if you wanted a different armor you could simply use Master Valenthyne Farfalla as an inspiration:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120417170609/starwars/images/thumb/5/51/Valenthyne_Farfalla.jpg/363px-Valenthyne_Farfalla.jpg

 

A golden armor with a red cloak and yet it didn't look too bad.

 

Another shot at his armor and a few others:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090820055149/starwars/images/thumb/9/9b/Battleofruusan.jpg/763px-Battleofruusan.jpg

 

 

 

 

Bioware had NO excuses to make this mess with the lvl 50 armor.

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There is a general disparity in the design through out all of the game and NOT just in armour design. Where I believe Bioware have gone wrong in design is that they've tried to retain some familiarity to the 2 released trilogies and fell wide of the mark. They somehow imagined that if we don't see something that we can relate to we won't buy into...

 

Which really isn't the case, I don't feel they have confidence or faith in the design of their own game, queue change upon change, patch after patch. Like I said, the whole game suffers in design or rather, poor design. The quite obviously laid out prision world that stinks of map design by numbers.. and it's not the only one either.

 

Why do all Bounty Hunetrs have to look like Fett?? and what happened to the isolation and sparseness of Tatooine and Hoth?? currently there are more features on these planets than any of the others you'll visit. Slightly off the main thread but it all stems from the same base, and that's one that has no concept or link to the IP... I guess moneymen wanting a quick buck rules the roost here.

Edited by Caspian_Rho
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The weirdest thing is how they got everything right in the Character Progression videos and in most of the 1-49 stuff but got everything REALLY wrong in the 50 stuff. It looks like they were made by different artists.

 

I've been thinking the exact same thing, it seems almost impossible that the same person(s) were behind both.

 

Either that, or they have received some (IMO) very questionable art directions.

 

This is pure speculation of course, but I remember seeing Arnie Jorgensen's signature on some of the early concept art for the armor. Could his leaving BioWare to start up the Stoic studio have anything to do with this? Not insinuating that he alone was responsible for all the nice looking gear in the game, but I'm still curious about the new end-game designs seemingly appearing after he left?

 

Again, nothing but speculation and I could be wrong as hell (and probably am), but given the concept art I've seen with his name on it, I find it hard to believe he would ever design anything like the 1.2 gear, at least not willingly.

 

Perhaps THAT'S why he quit? BioWare told him: "Make this!" and then he was like: "No way! I'm outta here!" :D:p

 

Ok now I'm just trollin', sorry guys. :tran_smile:

 

SE

Edited by ShavedEwok
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I think the OP makes a classic internet mistake in presuming that he speaks for a "very large majority," though his own viewpoint is well-stated.

 

I like the asthetic of the game. Are there armors that are too much for me? Yes. But I dislike the plain brown robes as well. I appreciate that there are a variety of styles for me to choose from (now that orange armor can be made to be equal to purple,) and presume that if I enjoy somewhat techy, armored robes, there may be someone else out there who enjoys the more Queen Amidala-esque stuff as well.

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I think the OP makes a classic internet mistake in presuming that he speaks for a "very large majority," though his own viewpoint is well-stated.

 

I like the asthetic of the game. Are there armors that are too much for me? Yes. But I dislike the plain brown robes as well. I appreciate that there are a variety of styles for me to choose from (now that orange armor can be made to be equal to purple,) and presume that if I enjoy somewhat techy, armored robes, there may be someone else out there who enjoys the more Queen Amidala-esque stuff as well.

 

I can see where you're coming from and of course there are different tastes and so on...

 

However, regardless of whether you prefer plain brown robes or more intricate Amiprada stuff, they still have the following in common: Their designs fit within the Star Wars universe.

 

IMO, it's not so much about actual taste as it is about consistency and blending in with what's already there.

 

SE

Edited by ShavedEwok
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I will agree for the most part.

 

The young George Lucas really nailed it. The current GL is an idiot who sits on a couch all day and directs terrible movies.

 

Why we have neon green and blue armor is beyond me. What tactical advantage does that give? Where are you trying to blend in? A disco?

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The fact that starwars is a dirty and worn universe is what made starwars appealing. The millinium falcon was a "piece of junk". The uniforrms were dirty and worn for all the rebel soldiers and all the heros.

 

This world is just extremly clean and modern. The spaceports on tattooine definitally do not jive with the films interpretaion of that back water planet.

 

Too much metalic sci-fi stuff.

 

The gear is absoultly ridiculous. I dont even understand how someone can ok this garbage. Han Solo just wore a pair of pants and a shirt wiith a vest.

 

I am afraid that this gear was to entice the fantasy genre players, maybe someone needs to go back and watch starwars.

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<snip>. Han Solo just wore a pair of pants and a shirt wiith a vest.

My level 50 gunslinger wears pants, boots, and the "Spider" jacket she got at around level 30. Why? Because it looks pretty much like what a smuggler should wear - a shirt underneath, and an open jacket on top. Not a cape or cloak anywhere in sight. No trench coat with huge collar either - she needs to be able to RUN sometimes, not risk being caught by her clothing.

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I fully agree. Let's hope this thread catches their attention. What pissed me off most was the fact that you can't find armor for siths that looks like the armor worn in the trailer videos. I just want a black cloak, maybe with some armor and bulky bracers underneath, I don't, however, want to look like a terminator machine or a red sauron.
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I think there's room for both what we currently have and what people want to see, to be quite honest. Even with some of the designs that people are most critical of, I can certainly trace visual sources to content from the larger Star Wars canon. As time expands and the sheer number of gear increase, there's room for visual diversification to occur which encompasses a host of disparate looks.

 

All that is needed is time.

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Even if the designs weren't so bad, at least we shouldn't have specific designs that are not allowed for some classes. Why can i have a jedi with black armour and no cape? I remember Mara jade being half "operative" and half "sith" wear spy-like suit. I remember Luke wearing black and Zuckuss (bounty hunter) wearing what it looks like jedi robe. So I'd like my Sith inquisitor to wear pants, not skirt, or i'd want my female bounty hunter to look like a smuggler (remember Aurra Sing? Why not?)
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Thank you, spne, for your excellent links. As we can see in those designs, even those with "flair" are often muted and understated, as opposed to full of bravado.

 

Pendragon, I cannot honestly say with 100% certainty that I speak for a "vast majority", it is true. However, I gathered such an opinion from my gameplay, hearing it very often from fellow guildmembers and just throughout the course of the game. In addition, the response to this thread--and yes, I understand that not everyone posts on these forums--is rather telling.

 

 

Many of you have commented to the effect that a lot of this armor seems more influenced by fantasy motifs than by science fiction, and especially of course "used future" . I agree with these sentiments, but I do not think we should be so quick to jump to conclusions and argue that it is to influence, say, WoW players or LOTRO players--as I said in the opening post, making things unnecessarily fanciful is endemic to the entertainment industry and has been for many years.

 

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses so far, and ask once again that future responses remain civil and on-point.

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The first time I saw a Sorc with one of those pointy witches hats, not sure what armor set it is, PvE set of some sort, I just fell about laughing, kind of broke the game immersion a little bit, lol

 

Then we could mention the Mara armor that has Metal Working vices on the shoulders, lol

 

"Hang on Darth, I just need to cut this 3 quarter inch cooper tube, got a leaky rad, then i'll be right with ya for some killing"

 

Fantastic post OP :)

 

And tbh, I think they simply ran out of time, because some of the armor as you state is very very good, but yes, the end game armor is truly horrific, both PvP and PvE.

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