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Improve tanking abilities for Powertech and Vanguard

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Improve tanking abilities for Powertech and Vanguard

Zartelion's Avatar


Zartelion
09.21.2017 , 08:26 PM | #1
Hi All!

Please correct if i'm wrong, but after the nerf, PT looks like the worst tank comparing to Jugg and Assassin.

At least in the guide that I read on dulfy Yam'unun said that: "With 5.0 PT tank has gone through some rough times having lost almost the rest of its ranged abilities and nerfs to Kolto and Oil Slick. While gaining nothing new while playing the same in 5.0 and compared to the strength of Assassin tanks right now, it is in the right hands more than capable of clearing the most difficult content in the game."

So, we are not talking about PT as useless or even bad for tanking ops, however, there is some space for improvements, to reach the same level as other 2 tank classes.

If so, why we are not asking Devs to improve our tanking abilities now ? I think it's a good time for that now, when they are working on the list of class changes in 5.5 and 5.6.

Even if noone hear us, we should ask, because if we do nothing, it will be not changed for sure.

Where would be the best place to ask Devs for this change?
If you have any ideas of what might be changed to improve Pt, but not make it too strong, to prevent future nerfs - please share them here!

Sorry for English, it's not my first language.

blinkerathome's Avatar


blinkerathome
09.22.2017 , 07:32 AM | #2
VG/PT have asked for changes in their tanking spec for a long time but no answer is coming from developers and noone expects any answer, because frankly they don't care. Just look at what 5.0 brought to the tanking world: Another extreme defensive cooldown for assasins to again almost completely negate mechanics on a short cooldown but we are still stuck with useless transpose and nerfs to our defensives.
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DDaMAGEr's Avatar


DDaMAGEr
09.22.2017 , 08:09 AM | #3
Yah, VG/PT as of right now have pretty big amount of cumulative issues, like different chance to trigger Plasma/Ion DoT for VG and PT's basic attacks (7 vs 5), and Riot Gas 15% bigger Accuracy Reduction than Oil Slick (l can't get rid of feeling that l'm expliting when tanking by My Main). Additionally Transpose - l don't even think having this ability is allowed by Star Wars canon. Actual teleportation technologies are privelegy of Rakata, Gree etc., while player "teleporatation" is justified by holography (Scoundrel/Operative) or shuttles (quick travel).

l have pretty wild guess, though, that DTPS equalization will occur through bringing Guardians/Shadows down to their target DTPS. For Shadows have their mandatory perks in 4-th window (extend Resilience duration (including Force Cloak's one); -60% damage on Force Speed). l'm almost certain Phasing Phantasm/One with the Shadows is getting severe weakening, just like mandatory Guardian DPS perk (Persistent/Piercing Chill).

l think at 5.6 Vanguard DPS might get some defensive utility buff, while Commandos oppositely - nerf.

DenariusJay's Avatar


DenariusJay
09.22.2017 , 12:23 PM | #4
ALL three specs for Powertech is a f**cking mess right now. BW truely destroyed this class. The tank class is behind the other tanking specs, and AP PT is the only saving grace, with very good damage, but for pvp its survivability is fish on land status.
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DDaMAGEr's Avatar


DDaMAGEr
09.22.2017 , 02:16 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by DenariusJay View Post
ALL three specs for Powertech is a f**cking mess right now. BW truely destroyed this class. The tank class is behind the other tanking specs, and AP PT is the only saving grace, with very good damage, but for pvp its survivability is fish on land status.
That's all pretty subjective l think, and depends more of player, than of character. Let's not forget that Vanguard/Powertech has specific advantage comparing to two other tank classes - it has primary attack with no CD and energy cost 30m range. Plus also 30m Sphere AoE taunt (opposed to PBAoE), and that might be both helpful or not comfortable, depending on circumstances. So it's probably the best in cases when kiting or ranged tanking might be required. Eyeless Rakghoul is such example.

Boss does mostly Melee/Ranged damage - then Guardian/Juggernaut probably has best protection on it. If it's Internal/Elemental - then - likely Shadow/Assassin. At last if fight contains mechanic, at which you need to stay at range? Then Vanguard/Powertech's most winning choice.

Shadow is overweighted with mandatory defensive utilities, and Guardian has some. Meanwhile, most players consider those mandatory perks evil, and something that needs to be avoided as possible. And developers likely too, look at Chilling DoT (mandatory perk - Guardian/Juggernaut rotational DPS power - at least pre 5.5) nerf at 5.5. Vanguard in this regard has balanced perks, all of which are optional, so it's not that VG is "bad", but instead Guardian and especially Shadow are overperforming a bit. That's my thought.

Zartelion's Avatar


Zartelion
09.22.2017 , 06:42 PM | #6
Thank you very much for the replies, gentlemen!

So, skipping emotions, we could say that our class tanking abilities might be improved a bit or the other 2 classes should me nerfed.

However, from my 12 years of experience being product manager in software development, the product team would prefer to get a specified feedback from the customers, instead of general words.

What could we suggest to the SWTOR product team, in case of how our tanking perks should be improved?

I guess they would prefer to see it in a format like : (Ability or Utility ) / Current functionality / Suggested functionality.

Any ideas?

DDaMAGEr's Avatar


DDaMAGEr
09.23.2017 , 05:18 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Zartelion View Post
Thank you very much for the replies, gentlemen!
So, skipping emotions, we could say that our class tanking abilities might be improved a bit or the other 2 classes should me nerfed.
However, from my 12 years of experience being product manager in software development, the product team would prefer to get a specified feedback from the customers, instead of general words.
What could we suggest to the SWTOR product team, in case of how our tanking perks should be improved?
I guess they would prefer to see it in a format like : (Ability or Utility ) / Current functionality / Suggested functionality.
Any ideas?
Transpose/Translocate
Current functionality: warps you to place of teammate, and teammate onto your place. Also reduces teammate's threat and makes it immune to lunges/displacement for a while.
Suggested functionality: replace power to
Shield Overcharge/Shield Overload
Stomps negative removable effects and increases Shield Chance by 60% (literally to 100%, if there's no shield mechanic implemented, similar to "supercrit" mechanic). Cooldown is 45%. That's short cooldown "block" power, whose other Tank classes have, and Vanguard/Powertech lacks.

blinkerathome's Avatar


blinkerathome
09.23.2017 , 09:42 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by DDaMAGEr View Post
That's all pretty subjective l think, and depends more of player, than of character. Let's not forget that Vanguard/Powertech has specific advantage comparing to two other tank classes - it has primary attack with no CD and energy cost 30m range. Plus also 30m Sphere AoE taunt (opposed to PBAoE), and that might be both helpful or not comfortable, depending on circumstances. So it's probably the best in cases when kiting or ranged tanking might be required. Eyeless Rakghoul is such example.
If any tank would have problem with energy then primary attack with no cd and energy cost would be valuable.
But a tank is not meant to do the huge damage (and that wont change with that attack), a tank is meant to mitigate damage and that's what pt/vg is lacking.
Additionally a tank in current operation and flashpoint does not have to kite a boss and that defeats the purpose of having a tank running away.
Your ranged basic attack argument is not valid for tanking discussion (mitigating damage).
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TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
09.23.2017 , 05:27 PM | #9
Said it before. Kolto overload and Responsive Safeguards should of been PT/VG abilities. Though they do need to be nerfed some. Instead of 70% for KO go 50%. And RSG should be merged in effectiveness by at least 50%. BUT. Even nerfed would nicely bring the PT/VG defenses up to par.
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Zartelion's Avatar


Zartelion
09.24.2017 , 04:41 PM | #10
Thank you, guys!

Honestly. I don't think that developers would like to change the mechanic of the existing ability(like Transpose/Translocate).
It seems like they prefer to change the parameters of the skills, instead of changing the mechanic, because the effort is much lower, especially, the testing.

However, I'm not reading the minds of SWTOR Product Team, so I would suggest 2 options:

1. Major change: Energy Shield
Current: 15 seconds (19 with 6 piece) you take 25% less damage from incoming attacks.
New: Keep the current one, however, after the default time, the shield is still active, but the heat is increasing by 20 per second. After the heat reaches 100, the shield will off.

2. Medium change (thanks DDaMAGEr): Transpose/Translocate
Current functionality: warps you to place of teammate, and teammate onto your place. Also reduces teammate's threat and makes it immune to lunges/displacement for a while.
Suggested functionality: replace power to
Shield Overcharge/Shield Overload
Stomps negative removable effects and increases Shield Chance by 60% (literally to 100%, if there's no shield mechanic implemented, similar to "supercrit" mechanic). Cooldown is 45%. That's short cooldown "block" power, whose other Tank classes have, and Vanguard/Powertech lacks.

3. Minor change (thanks TalonVII) : Kolto overload
Current: When activated it goes on stand by for 1 minute. During that time when health dips below 35% it will heal you up to 35% and if above 40% heal for 2% of total health.
New:When activated it goes on stand by for 1 minute. During that time when health dips below 50% it will heal you up to 50% and if above 60% heal for 2% of total health.