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Request for some defensive buffs for Vanguards/PTs in Warzones.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Request for some defensive buffs for Vanguards/PTs in Warzones.

FinnBin's Avatar


FinnBin
07.08.2017 , 06:36 AM | #1
What the title said.

So, I took up my PT after a long while. DPS wise I find I'm pretty comfortable with it but defensives are utterly horrendous, they really dont make any difference in PvP. And no, heavy armor doesn't compensate.


  • Shoulder Cannon heal is behind utility point and its still isn't very effective. Quickly looking at it, its total heal amount for APs is 21% which is farcry from Warzone Medpack. Also, it only heals upon hit, has short range and is susceptible against tech resists, meaning no damage and no heal. And of course, its an active ability, needed to be spammed, but if you spam, you risk not having it when you need to prevent a cap or plant.
  • Energy shield, 25% damage reduction for 12 seconds. Its ok, or would be if not for the long CD it has. APPTs can benefit far more for it because CD reduction on hit, which actually make it viable.
  • Instead of that fancy skill, Pyros get damage and CD reduction for their Kolto Overload, which is nice, if not for the fact that it still activates at 35% HP, which is at the range of other classes execution abilities. And the heal you get from it is not nearly enough to prevent death by burst, not even for Pyros. Even mercs on their superior KO can be brought down, not easy but can be done.


What would I suggest? Well, with utilities and buffs from Discipline paths hardly make them viable in any situation, why not just add them to the base ability.

Hell, guildie suggested that even if PTs/Vang had Responsive Safeguards (Merc/Cmd "Oh ****" -button), it still wouldnt make the class overpowered in PvP.



This is not an angry rant from even angrier Powertech. I play several classes, most of them I find fun. This a friendly suggestion to fix some of the PTs problems.

What I do like about the class? Well, rotation is neat and the fact that so few are playing this class (especially in WZs) so playing one makes me feel kinda unique.

Cheerio.

omaan's Avatar


omaan
07.08.2017 , 07:48 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by FinnBin View Post
What the title said.

So, I took up my PT after a long while. DPS wise I find I'm pretty comfortable with it but defensives are utterly horrendous, they really dont make any difference in PvP. And no, heavy armor doesn't compensate.


  • Shoulder Cannon heal is behind utility point and its still isn't very effective. Quickly looking at it, its total heal amount for APs is 21% which is farcry from Warzone Medpack. Also, it only heals upon hit, has short range and is susceptible against tech resists, meaning no damage and no heal. And of course, its an active ability, needed to be spammed, but if you spam, you risk not having it when you need to prevent a cap or plant.
  • Energy shield, 25% damage reduction for 12 seconds. Its ok, or would be if not for the long CD it has. APPTs can benefit far more for it because CD reduction on hit, which actually make it viable.
  • Instead of that fancy skill, Pyros get damage and CD reduction for their Kolto Overload, which is nice, if not for the fact that it still activates at 35% HP, which is at the range of other classes execution abilities. And the heal you get from it is not nearly enough to prevent death by burst, not even for Pyros. Even mercs on their superior KO can be brought down, not easy but can be done.


What would I suggest? Well, with utilities and buffs from Discipline paths hardly make them viable in any situation, why not just add them to the base ability.

Hell, guildie suggested that even if PTs/Vang had Responsive Safeguards (Merc/Cmd "Oh ****" -button), it still wouldnt make the class overpowered in PvP.



This is not an angry rant from even angrier Powertech. I play several classes, most of them I find fun. This a friendly suggestion to fix some of the PTs problems.

What I do like about the class? Well, rotation is neat and the fact that so few are playing this class (especially in WZs) so playing one makes me feel kinda unique.

Cheerio.
Currently dps pt is THE SQUISHIEST DPS CLASS IN THE GAME. Do you think that all these nerfs will make it normal as it was at 4.0? I mean they are finally nerfing mercs, snipers which were the main sources of pt dying in a few seconds or it wont change much? I am interested of starting playing as a pt but it looks so damn squishy and iam not sure that all these nerfs will help.

tavrinDosa's Avatar


tavrinDosa
07.08.2017 , 08:42 AM | #3
There has been far too many times in a wz when felt like if I just had one of the utilities that was buffed for mercs my class would be balanced. I say nerfed version Trauma regulators and a 50% kolto overload would do the trick

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
07.08.2017 , 01:35 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by tavrinDosa View Post
There has been far too many times in a wz when felt like if I just had one of the utilities that was buffed for mercs my class would be balanced. I say nerfed version Trauma regulators and a 50% kolto overload would do the trick
While I agree that PTs are in need of some defensive improvements, transferring merc God DCDs to PTs is imo not an acceptable means of improving the defensive situation of any DPS spec. No DPS spec should have DCDs like that, not even PTs. Defensive improvements can be attaining by the addition of DCDs in the manner in which Juggs and Marauders have them and get by with, both with less healing than PTs, on some with no healing at all.

A nerfed version of Trauma regulators, might be more reasonable, but that would be guess work at best and unless BW is in a position to make quick changes to defensive's, I don't relish the idea of adding another class to the list of overtuned DCDs in PVP. The DPS nerfs to some of those classes are going to be of limited effect in PVP as the DCDS that cause them to overperform are going to be exactly as they always were and Mercs and Snipers are going to be just as difficult as ever to take down. Snipers will still be dancing and laughing around melee and mercs will still be face tanking everything just as effectively as ever. We don't need more such offenders at present. PT is a melee DPS class, it should have DCDs like other melee classes do.
~ I am Grim.


"There's a word for Lightside Sith. It's called Jedi."

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
07.09.2017 , 05:48 AM | #5
First of all, with the recent change the Commando/Mercenary (1 new cooldown, 1 steroid to adrenaline rush/KOverload)
Vanguard/Powertech is now 1 cooldown behind every class.
to make things worse, guard/Ptech, suffered the loss of Full Auto, Explosive Round, Sticky Grenade. Only getting 1 skill in return, which is less damage than sticky grenade, and less range than explosive round.

We're losing skills like a hole in a pocket and it's NOT funny.
It's one thing to have skills with "questionable designs" to a melee class because their ranged, by why remove them completely.
But what hurts most, is knowing other classes, especially our counterpart Commando/Mercenary, is gaining new skills out of nowhere.
That is some Dark Sith right there!

FinnBin's Avatar


FinnBin
07.09.2017 , 07:55 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonzenaattori View Post
First of all, with the recent change the Commando/Mercenary (1 new cooldown, 1 steroid to adrenaline rush/KOverload)
Vanguard/Powertech is now 1 cooldown behind every class.
to make things worse, guard/Ptech, suffered the loss of Full Auto, Explosive Round, Sticky Grenade. Only getting 1 skill in return, which is less damage than sticky grenade, and less range than explosive round.

We're losing skills like a hole in a pocket and it's NOT funny.
It's one thing to have skills with "questionable designs" to a melee class because their ranged, by why remove them completely.
But what hurts most, is knowing other classes, especially our counterpart Commando/Mercenary, is gaining new skills out of nowhere.
That is some Dark Sith right there!
Well, I wouldn't blame mrcs/cmds. It was high time they got their defensives boosts, for being under nerf-hammer almost from launch. What they got was simply bit much. In damage department they were always ok. What I don't understand why devs are bringing their damage down, when it was their defensives that needed fine tuning. But I digress.

Powertechs, however, need a serious fix up in either their damage or survival. If it must be class cannon, then at least give it significant dps boost for the loss of survival.

tavrinDosa's Avatar


tavrinDosa
07.09.2017 , 02:20 PM | #7
It's no argument that advanced prototype is one of the easiest rotations in the game. So what about dmg mitigation that occurs in the rotation and not in big in your face dcd's, so for example staking energy nodes also increases dmg reduction? Or maybe you either spend the nodes on either energy blast or a new ability that increases dmg reduction further or makes our shield stronger. Or maybe a procd railshot debuffs the enemy's dmg potential. There is something about marauder or juggernaut where other than enraged defense, they have a fair consistent amount of dmg mitigation that isn't overwhelming to me. I never feel like i'm going to burst them down in 1 rotation but i also don't feel like its a daunting task to kill them. Thats what i wan't for powertechs especially if Bioware considers them melee range.

KainrycKarr's Avatar


KainrycKarr
07.09.2017 , 05:36 PM | #8
It's a lot more than 1 defensive behind other classes. Let's compare DPS PT's active defensives with, say, marauder, who it shares that 4-10m range with.



Powertech

Shields (25% DR)

Advanced Prototype:
Kolto (8 secs of meh healing up to 35%)
Sonic missile (30% resist chance.)

Pyro:
Kolto (8 secs of meh healing up to 35% with 30% DR for the duration)

Marauder

Saber Ward (50% Ranged/Melee Defense, 25% Tech/Force DR)
Undying Rage (99% damage reduction for 4 seconds)
Obfuscate (90% Ranged/melee accuracy debuff on a single target for six seconds.)
Cloak of Pain (20% DR for for 6 seconds but is refreshed when hit, up to a maximum of 30 seconds).
Predation (Increases melee/ranged defense by 10%)

Just comparing these two, an AP spec PT's damage resistance is completely outclassed both in potency and duration by a BASE Marauder's.


Nearly every other class simply has more tools to mitigate incoming damage than a PT does. Hydraulic overrides for kiting? Great, except you can't really kite because you need to be 10m range to deal damage while defending yourself. Considering every melee spec has several 10m abilities, and trying to float between 4 and 10 meters is nigh impossible with latency, you basically still have to sit and eat that melee damage.


Ultimately, what boils down to PT's survivability issues is that it's DCD's were created in a time were mobility was it's strength and what really made it thrive. Now, it's a 4-10m class just like Maras, Jugs, Sins, and Operatives but everyone else has just as much if not more mobility, meaning that survivability advantage is moot.

So now Powertech is stuck trying to be a genuine melee class but without the defensives to keep in that 4-10m range and stay there.
Kain'ryk Karr - Level 60 Powertech<Clan Adenn>

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
07.09.2017 , 10:50 PM | #9
Quote:
Marauder

Saber Ward (50% Ranged/Melee Defense, 25% Tech/Force DR)
Undying Rage (99% damage reduction for 4 seconds)
Obfuscate (90% Ranged/melee accuracy debuff on a single target for six seconds.)
Cloak of Pain (20% DR for for 6 seconds but is refreshed when hit, up to a maximum of 30 seconds).
Predation (Increases melee/ranged defense by 10%)
Firstly I wouldn't consider Obfuscate a defensive cooldown.
Calling it a DCD is like saying Slow or Electro net (hinder) on a ranged class can be classified as a defensive cooldown so long has they're smart enough to kite
But for all intents and purposes. Let's place Force Camo there, as the effect gives you stun immunity + 50% damage reduction and movement speed increase, not to mention the stealth. Which can be used as defensive cooldown in some places, especially in pve where effects like aoes can be mitigated to nothing in combination with defensive rolls etc etc.

I compared it with Commando for a reason. It's the closest thing to a fair comparison you'll ever get.
There wasn't a single DCD vanguard/powertech had that seperated them from Mando/Merc, they all had the same pattern, especially with de-aggro ability giving a spec unique effect.
Merc = absorb force/tech (kinda like spell dodging but more charges)
PT = defensive rating increase
both had energy shield, both had overload, and both had hydralics (if you'd even consider it a defensive cooldown but its on both classes so... yeah). In fact the only thing that made them unique was the spec effects

In any other sense, i think its only fair to compare it to another Tank/DPS class

Tank specifically
shadows have deflection, battle readiness, stealth and shroud /w tank spec giving them DR on battle readiness and absorb steroid on potency
Guardians have saber ward, enure, Focused defense and reflect /w tank spec giving them warding call + defense rating stacking fiesta
Vanguards have energy shield (lowest DR value out of all 3 tank classes), combat focus (lowest defense chance rating out of all 3 tank classes), kolto overload (2nd lowest heal out of the tanks and spazzed thanks to commando), and riot gas nerfed. Thank you bioware

Yeah, being a vanguard tank... lot of fun

Quote:
Ultimately, what boils down to PT's survivability issues is that it's DCD's were created in a time were mobility was it's strength and what really made it thrive. Now, it's a 4-10m class just like Maras, Jugs, Sins, and Operatives but everyone else has just as much if not more mobility, meaning that survivability advantage is moot.
This pretty much I'm 100% behind you on for sure
the fact that we lost a lot of 30m joy kind of made the idea of using survivability even more paramout. which, we got nothing for. Yay!

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
07.10.2017 , 11:04 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by tavrinDosa View Post
It's no argument that advanced prototype is one of the easiest rotations in the game. So what about dmg mitigation that occurs in the rotation and not in big in your face dcd's, so for example staking energy nodes also increases dmg reduction? Or maybe you either spend the nodes on either energy blast or a new ability that increases dmg reduction further or makes our shield stronger. Or maybe a procd railshot debuffs the enemy's dmg potential. There is something about marauder or juggernaut where other than enraged defense, they have a fair consistent amount of dmg mitigation that isn't overwhelming to me. I never feel like i'm going to burst them down in 1 rotation but i also don't feel like its a daunting task to kill them. Thats what i wan't for powertechs especially if Bioware considers them melee range.
Marauder's don't have enraged defense. Marauder's don't have any base DCD that gives them health back.
AP doesn't lack hitting power! They still have some sick burst. Defensively they may have issue, but they hit just fine, I have the scars to prove it! =p
~ I am Grim.


"There's a word for Lightside Sith. It's called Jedi."