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Returning Player: The New Vanguard

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Returning Player: The New Vanguard

Mazoler's Avatar


Mazoler
04.14.2017 , 02:31 PM | #1
I am a long time SWTOR player that plays for a while then usually takes breaks and returns later when I feel like diving back into the story of SWTOR that I love. Here recently I finished KOTET and decided I wanted to level my Trooper since I've never finished the 1-50 story. Well I have a level 32 Vanguard. The problem is I came back to playing it and I felt really let down. Everything that I loved about the Vanguard didn't seem right anymore. The main reason I pick Vanguard over Commando is because I never really have been a huge fan of the huge cannon. In my mind my trooper is someone who has a rifle and attacks from afar but closes the gap and charges in if needed. It was perfect when I left and I loved it. It had melee, melee range aoe (ion pulse?), Grenade launcher, Sticky grenade, Mortar Volley, Full Auto. I miss all of these things. Instead I now run in and stare at the enemy pointing my rifle in their face while I wait for my "shotgun" cooldown and swap between my two aoe non channeled attacks, occasionally throwing in a melee or two, and when out of ammo I use a very basic low dmg and boring auto attack ability. Lets not forget the awful replacement of the aesthetically pleasing Mortar Volley into a Pixie Dust cannon that is shot within arms reach.

So that is what I find annoying about the new direction of the Vanguard. Just doesn't feel right to me. The issue I am having is what to do. My character is only level 32 so it wouldn't take too horribly long to remake a Commando, but I don't want to. I have spent probably 500k credits on character perks and genuinely like my character - I just don't like the class anymore. My other issue as somewhat pointed out above is that while Commando still has the range abilities that I found fun and aesthetically pleasing it requires using a Cannon which I don't like. Is it possible to just use a rifle on a Commando or do some abilities require you have a Cannon equipped?

What is your opinion of the new direction of the vanguard? Do you think it should still have the original iconic abilities such as Full Auto, Grenade Launcher, and Mortar Volley? What do you think I should do? Do you think BioWare will change the Vanguard into being more like it used to be and I should wait it out and keep enjoying the story on my character, or do you think I should remake a Commando? If rerolling a Commando is it viable to keep using a rifle instead of the cannon? Let me know what you all think about this.

TLDR: Returned after Vanguard class changes and don't like my character anymore. Doesn't feel fun or aesthetically pleasing. Uses rifle but has to stand in front of enemies with rifle pointed in their face swapping between single shot CDs. Would you recommend sticking with the Vanguard or rerolling to Commando?

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
04.14.2017 , 05:16 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Mazoler View Post
I am a long time SWTOR player that plays for a while then usually takes breaks and returns later when I feel like diving back into the story of SWTOR that I love. Here recently I finished KOTET and decided I wanted to level my Trooper since I've never finished the 1-50 story. Well I have a level 32 Vanguard. The problem is I came back to playing it and I felt really let down. Everything that I loved about the Vanguard didn't seem right anymore. The main reason I pick Vanguard over Commando is because I never really have been a huge fan of the huge cannon. In my mind my trooper is someone who has a rifle and attacks from afar but closes the gap and charges in if needed. It was perfect when I left and I loved it. It had melee, melee range aoe (ion pulse?), Grenade launcher, Sticky grenade, Mortar Volley, Full Auto. I miss all of these things. Instead I now run in and stare at the enemy pointing my rifle in their face while I wait for my "shotgun" cooldown and swap between my two aoe non channeled attacks, occasionally throwing in a melee or two, and when out of ammo I use a very basic low dmg and boring auto attack ability. Lets not forget the awful replacement of the aesthetically pleasing Mortar Volley into a Pixie Dust cannon that is shot within arms reach.

So that is what I find annoying about the new direction of the Vanguard. Just doesn't feel right to me. The issue I am having is what to do. My character is only level 32 so it wouldn't take too horribly long to remake a Commando, but I don't want to. I have spent probably 500k credits on character perks and genuinely like my character - I just don't like the class anymore. My other issue as somewhat pointed out above is that while Commando still has the range abilities that I found fun and aesthetically pleasing it requires using a Cannon which I don't like. Is it possible to just use a rifle on a Commando or do some abilities require you have a Cannon equipped?

What is your opinion of the new direction of the vanguard? Do you think it should still have the original iconic abilities such as Full Auto, Grenade Launcher, and Mortar Volley? What do you think I should do? Do you think BioWare will change the Vanguard into being more like it used to be and I should wait it out and keep enjoying the story on my character, or do you think I should remake a Commando? If rerolling a Commando is it viable to keep using a rifle instead of the cannon? Let me know what you all think about this.

TLDR: Returned after Vanguard class changes and don't like my character anymore. Doesn't feel fun or aesthetically pleasing. Uses rifle but has to stand in front of enemies with rifle pointed in their face swapping between single shot CDs. Would you recommend sticking with the Vanguard or rerolling to Commando?
I KNOW that I will ruin Vanguard for you now, but...

Did you know that you CAN use Rifle as a Commando? Gunnery will be ~10-15% less effective, so you won't be able to NiM like that, but apart from that...it is perfectly viable!

Now...it all comes down whether you want or don't want to level that character again. And how much you like(wouldn't say love, it's too strong imo) Vanguard. If you can live with the fact that one Discipline(Assault) is locked to you(pretty much)...actually, I am not certain about Assault either. According to Dulfy...only Charged Bolts is linked to Cannon. So if you can live without that ONE *********** ABILITY, you can play Commando just fine as ranged with a Rifle. Just at a lowered efficiency. Oh and your primary AoE is linked to the Cannon too.

But then again, both DPS options for Vanguards have random melee abilities thrown in because of...because I guess. Again 1-2 abilities, just for a good measure.
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

Lupolus's Avatar


Lupolus
04.22.2017 , 08:51 AM | #3
I felt exactly alike, that's why I rerolled to Commando. However, creating a level 60 Vanguard is great I must admit, now with the Storm and Incindiary Round ability. Yes that's what I want.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
04.24.2017 , 06:28 AM | #4
Vanguards got completely gutted with the change. I mean on my commando(yes I have a Vanguard and a commando just like I have a PT and Merc) there are a few abilities I just don't use because there's really no need for them. The plasma grenade and sticky grenade. They are really not needed on the commando, but I could easily use the both of them on the Vanguard.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Moonstorm's Avatar


Moonstorm
04.26.2017 , 08:57 AM | #5
I actually LOVE the, err, "Pixie Dust", as you put it. I find the look to be quite beautiful.
I'm currently leveling a new Trooper as well, and I'm really looking forward to getting to the new plasma blast (I don't recall it's actual name, at the moment).

One thing about Vanguard that I have always despised was the electricity abilities. They just felt so out of place to me. I know that lightning and electrical sparks are plasma, but it feels so boring, and besides, the Inquisitor already has a monopoly on lightning.
The new plasma globe-like abilities, while still very few in number, are responsible for bringing me back to the AC.
I agree that the Vanguard is still somewhat lackluster, especially after losing so many of our old abilities, but with the new/revamped abilities we do have, I'm enjoying it for the first time in years.

While I am most likely in the minority here, I would actually like to see the remaining electrical movies turn into plasma (Heh, "Pixie Dust") globe-like moves. Hell, if they re-modeled the shoulder cannons appearance AND had it fire purple plasma, I'd be in Heaven.

I just wish the Cartel Market plasma rifles didn't look so HORRID on a female Trooper. When you put the rifle on your back, it sticks up about thee to four feet, like an assault cannon. Urgg. Avoiding things like that is ONE of the reasons why I went Vanguard again.
I once shot a man just to watch him die, but then I got distracted and missed it.

XXxherroxXX's Avatar


XXxherroxXX
05.09.2017 , 12:46 PM | #6
I have a lvl 70 mostly tier 4 geared vanguard tank and she is a boss. I usually main tank for my guild in raids, pvp, etc. It's really about understanding Vanguard play style. Sure their damage output and abilities don't seem so cool anymore, but they have it where it counts. I'd give it a chance and see where you can go with it. Their range is more limited now due to BW trying to balance and not let you tank from far away, but their AOE hits,taunts and stuns make them very strong. If you're concerned about the dps specs for VG, I think you're better off going commando, as they have some of the highest parsing dps among the classes.

Smilinghawk's Avatar


Smilinghawk
05.10.2017 , 12:13 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Moonstorm View Post
While I am most likely in the minority here, I would actually like to see the remaining electrical movies turn into plasma (Heh, "Pixie Dust") globe-like moves. Hell, if they re-modeled the shoulder cannons appearance AND had it fire purple plasma, I'd be in Heaven.

I must confess I like the "pixiedust" too and the plasma flare is very nice looking and the sound has oomph to it, 100 times better than the old plasma tech magic fireball thingie.

I also kinda like the instant ion wave, it's like a lightning shotgun, I only wish the animation was a bit "fuller" with a few more frames, they could have cannibalized the old shieldtechs ion storm a bit with the bolts arcing into the ground etc.

Imo there was no reason to limit the new mortarvolley to 10m range, it could be 30m and low lvl vanguards would instantly have a move to use while they walk towards the enemy and calling an artillery strike on top of yourself feels a bit silly.

Pt version would be very nice without the big fridge popping out of your back, just have two shouldercannons shooting the missiles pls, the missiles and pyrotechnics look good imo.

One thing I dont like is that they changed shieldtechs heatblast into yet another flameburst knockoff like pyro's immolate. Unless they use the old heatblast animation to make a new blaster move for all pt specs (hint hint).

jacobsod's Avatar


jacobsod
10.09.2017 , 06:19 PM | #8
As a PvE player only, I totally agree - I also just came back and can't stand the Vanguard range limitations. Not fun to play at all any more, IMO. I'd think if they didn't like the ranged tank type play, fine - set one of the DPS roles back to 30m range.

Ugh, killed it for me. Was my fav class.

But thanks to this post going to try out a commando. I also don't like the idea of a sofa on my back, but maybe it'll grow on me.

HanSollo's Avatar


HanSollo
10.09.2017 , 11:53 PM | #9
I Like the new animation on artillery barrage.

I hate that they took away plasma cannon loved cooking people with that thing in PvP.

Im going to level him and gear him up but will probably be more of a support class where I just stand in the back and guard squishies that do real damage.

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
10.10.2017 , 10:14 AM | #10
I really like the new replacement for Artillery Barrage as well. I'd like if all the electric crap got turned into Plasma Balls. Besides, when you mention Plasma Weaponry to someone, even a geek, what do you think that person'll think? Electric bolts / streams OR 40k like Plasma Balls? The answer is evident lol.

As for everyone wanting to give a Commando a try: DO IT! As I already mentioned way back, you can do it with a Rifle. It's just, you won't be at the peak of your efficiency. Which is completely irrelevant outside Ranked PvP / HM OPs / Nightmare mode.

Vanguard, unfortunately, completely sucks balls right now!
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus