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Request for some defensive buffs for Vanguards/PTs in Warzones.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Request for some defensive buffs for Vanguards/PTs in Warzones.

PrometheanDeath's Avatar


PrometheanDeath
09.14.2017 , 11:57 AM | #51
It's not a bad idea, but remember that mad dash does grant immunity just like a sniper covered escape. force speed doesn't grant immunity but currently only has 15 second CD. Hydraulics with utility has 35 second CD. I've always seen Hydraulics as a PTs "Hunt them down and wolf pack someone" where they catch up to an enemy and spin circles around the melee to avoid melee range. Pve wise it's already used for avoid some deadly circles, like Corrupter-0's Gravity field.

PrometheanDeath's Avatar


PrometheanDeath
09.14.2017 , 12:03 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Exocor View Post
Something like "makes me immortal for x seconds" or "using something, that is not used in pve grants x% DR" isn't balanced for PvE.
Isn't it also funny how that seems to be the only thing that the other tanks boast is balanced about their class, making them balanced for pve? Assassins Force shroud is "Makes me immortal for x seconds" and similarly for a jugg's saber reflect absorbing all damage taken. They have their situations though, where force shroud only works on force/tech, and saber reflect only works on single target non melee hits. But they are "Immortal" CDs none the less which PTs don't have.

And keep in mind that explosive fuel combined with Oil slick is still RNG based, meaning while slim there is the chance where all hits done to the PT in that 15 second window is never resisted, making it a pseudo immortal defensive combo, as they waste 2 CDs to achieve an imperfect immortal stance.

DsevenO's Avatar


DsevenO
09.16.2017 , 11:34 PM | #53
I haven't read all of the comments in this thread, but some of the extremely long-winded comments attempting to show that dps pts "aren't that bad" are laughable. I main a dps jugg, and I thought that was bad (and believe me, it is - really, really, really bad). Then I logged onto my dps pt. Holy ****. A whole new level of hell has been created just for dps pts. Their dps is fine, but my god, their survivability in pvp is beyond bad. "Bad" isn't a strong enough word; there isn't a word in the English language to accurately describe how bad they are.

Shield cd needs to be cut in half, kolto cd needs to be reduced by at least a minute and/or it needs to heal for way more. Shoulder cannon legendary heal needs to be brought up by 1-2%, and the utilities in general need a major overhaul.
Go Forth and Die

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
09.17.2017 , 03:31 PM | #54
I think cutting Energy Shield's cooldown in half is going a bit far. I think energy shield is fine as is. I would rather like a buff to adrenaline rush (maybe close to what mercs can get with utilities now) and a lowered cooldown on adrenaline rush wouldn't be bad either. I think that already puts pt's in a much better position, as adrenaline rush can actually function as an anti focus tool that way. Another possibility would be to bring back some range to the class, so pt's can actually kite a bit in pvp again.

While I also like the idea of buffing the shoulder cannon heal, it's a bit unfortunate that AP will always get significantly more benefit from it than pyro. So when it's balanced for AP it's trash for pyro.

FinnBin's Avatar


FinnBin
09.17.2017 , 05:14 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
SnipSnap

While I also like the idea of buffing the shoulder cannon heal, it's a bit unfortunate that AP will always get significantly more benefit from it than pyro. So when it's balanced for AP it's trash for pyro.
Right now, heal on SC heal is trash regardless of spec. It's only tiny bit more useful for APs, but even for them it's max 21% of total HP. It's behind utility point, It only heals on-hit, it can be resisted, has a short range and long CD if you spam it. And if you spam it, you are more likely not to have anything to interrupt with if you get CCd near objective.

It definelty won't save your skin in PvP, it increases your uptime on field a tinsy bit but thats really it...

Chimerako's Avatar


Chimerako
09.17.2017 , 05:18 PM | #56
This was a pretty detailed discussion that still boils down to vanguard /PT are the only class in the entire game without a dcd to mitigate a large chunk of some form of damage. All the other specs in some form or another can mitigate from 90 to 100% of various weapon, melee, force or tech damage. Stuck in no man's land as a jugg pop reflect. Snipers have evasion and cover ops evasion and roll. Sorcs god bubble, sent/ mars pop undying, mandos/mercs reflect and absorb.

Kolto overload is a joke since once I see a pt get to around 40% I line up enough burst so they can't recover. It's a bit harder with pyro but pyro doesn't do enough front end damage to even worry about normally.

The only way I'm personally successful at playing my PT is to play near cover. Once range start focusing you, there is quite literally nothing you can do but run away. A defensive buff on jet charge would be nice.

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
09.18.2017 , 08:38 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by FinnBin View Post
Right now, heal on SC heal is trash regardless of spec. It's only tiny bit more useful for APs, but even for them it's max 21% of total HP. It's behind utility point, It only heals on-hit, it can be resisted, has a short range and long CD if you spam it. And if you spam it, you are more likely not to have anything to interrupt with if you get CCd near objective.

It definelty won't save your skin in PvP, it increases your uptime on field a tinsy bit but thats really it...
Oh don't get me wrong, it's pretty trash all right. I'm just saying if it's based of your total amount of shoulder cannon charges, AP will always have a significantly higher benefit from the utility, which is why I'd rather fix other pt utilities.

DDaMAGEr's Avatar


DDaMAGEr
09.21.2017 , 08:24 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by PrometheanDeath View Post
Your tank idea actually gave me an idea. Pts are more of a "support others" type of class so that must be their reason for including translocate in their arsenal. I think it's clear to say though that translocate for PT tanks is basically useless, while I get that Bioware wants PTs to support other players with sonic rebounder, or even adaptable assailant, maybe they can change the ability to benefit team mates rather than troll teammates to fall of the void star Bridge or stand in fire (lol). With your idea that cleanses and increases shield chance for 3 seconds, it honestly is a good one, definitely something they need, but lets see if we can spin that to keep Bioware's intention on translocate. "Shield Overload" Overcharge your shield to protect an ally, absorbing damage taken done to you and your targeted by 60% for 5 seconds, cleansing both of you at the end of the shield, (60 or 90 second CD). It gives PTs a well deserved DCD, helps an ally like the intention of translocate, and makes them less squishy than sorcs in the process.
Then maybe not targeted, but in addition buff a bit some defensive property for a teammate, Guarded by you? Because targeting teammates being a Tank is... Not very conceptual. If no teammate is targeted - then that little defense is wasted. As for Sonic Rebounder - generally all Tank Classes have teammate defense buffes on their AoE Taunts - nothing exclusive for VG/PT.

Looking forward for 5.5 revamps and DTPS equalization.

Also something gives me thought that Transpose/Translocate is not only totally useless, but also is totally out-of-canon as well. Because here in Star Wars universe seems teleporatation technology is privilegy of ancient and forgotten civilizations, like Gree and Rakata (or little, but very powerful factions like Dread Masters). Other "teleporatation" types are canonically justified with holography (like Scoundrel/Operative "warp" lunge to enemy/ally), force techniques or shuttles (Quick Travel). And here we have something looking copypasted from HL universe. It might be stripped from VG/PT, and then returned back as... some kind of rare device or consumable schematic, like added to those Rakata or Gree vendors...

l guess Transpose/Translocate might be replaced by requested many times short "block" type DCD, like 100% shield chance for 3-5 seconds, that l propose also make stomp all removable negative effects (other tanks have things like that). l propose default duration of Shield Overcharge/Shield Overload might be made 3 sec default, and 5 seconds with 6 pieces of equipment (instead of Riot Gas/Oil Slick), stomp debuffs at instant it's activated, and grant +100% shield chance for duration. In addition reduces damage taken by your Guarded teammate (if present) by 15%. Cooldown is 45 seconds.

KevinQCowart's Avatar


KevinQCowart
09.21.2017 , 08:52 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by DDaMAGEr View Post
Also something gives me thought that Transpose/Translocate is not only totally useless, but also is totally out-of-canon as well.
I've tried to bring this topic up so many times and.... *crickets*.... Its amazing the level of apathy players and developers have, its like we all expect failure and disappointment.

Transpose 100% contradicts the class fantasy of a Bounty Hunter, its a teleport! It is a stretch of the imagination for that to even be a force user ability. And what happened to Bioware's own policy of melee having no casted abilities? If they are going to make some arbitrary rule to homogenize the classes at least stick to it.

Powertech/Vanguard never needed a "Save" move, they have harpoon for that, or they can jet charge or HO to save a teammate from aggro. PT/VG needs more and better cooldowns, like yesterday.

PrometheanDeath's Avatar


PrometheanDeath
09.22.2017 , 01:25 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Chimerako View Post
This was a pretty detailed discussion that still boils down to vanguard /PT are the only class in the entire game without a dcd to mitigate a large chunk of some form of damage. All the other specs in some form or another can mitigate from 90 to 100% of various weapon, melee, force or tech damage. Stuck in no man's land as a jugg pop reflect. Snipers have evasion and cover ops evasion and roll. Sorcs god bubble, sent/ mars pop undying, mandos/mercs reflect and absorb.

Kolto overload is a joke since once I see a pt get to around 40% I line up enough burst so they can't recover. It's a bit harder with pyro but pyro doesn't do enough front end damage to even worry about normally.

The only way I'm personally successful at playing my PT is to play near cover. Once range start focusing you, there is quite literally nothing you can do but run away. A defensive buff on jet charge would be nice.
That's basically what all my posts have come to, whether it's the tank comparison, the utility comparison, or the defensive comparison, PTs just don't have anything.

100% agree that kolto overload is a joke, the only instance I find myself using kolto overload, is for the 2nd CC break because of the heroic utility, and I'm using that even if I'm at 60% health just because resolve bar is full. Even lightning sorcs which people complain about their damage, can burn through a PTs kolto overload.

Basically how a PT has to play now, the Melee class that has to LoS every class, and hope they have a healer on their team. Or just get a ranked team and bring that pocket healer with you so you can actually do something.

The only iffy change I can see, is have PT be the "Beserker class." Lower health = more damage, and that would at least give the devs a reason to make us have the worst defenses in the game. Granted yes this will cause a lot of PTs in the pve world to take advantage of ops bosses, standing in circles for increase damage, and even parsing. But unless the devs want to make PTs live longer than paper being sprayed down by a water hose, that's the only thing I can see that would make PTs competitive.