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Eventual Story End


Darth_Taral

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So I was thinking about this a moment, and I want to know what you guys think:

 

There is a bit of a dichotomy in terms of the lore and where the game is going. Namely, the game needs to go on for as long as possible, while still eventually leading to an end-point that can be picked up by the EU.

 

The Empire eventually needs to end. The Emperor needs to die and have no replacements, the Dark Council needs to be killed, the Sith Lords and troops, all gone. The Empire needs to be completely wiped out. The Sith start again from scratch in 2,000 BBY when Phanius falls to the Dark Side and becomes Darth Ruin, so pretty much every trace needs to be wiped out, probably within a few years of the events of the game.

 

But that grossly undermines the playability of the game. While it's ok right now to be a Sith Warrior, Sith Inquisitor, or Imperial Agent (noting that the Bounty Hunter might be exempt from this), eventually, that character will either die or go into hiding and die alone, while Republic characters triumph and win.

 

Now, one option to address this might be to conclude the story of the Second Great Galactic War in novels or comics. After all, the events of the upcoming TOR: Annihilation novel take place after the events of Chapter 3 (note that the Chapter 3 conclusion of the Jedi Knight story is in the blurb, but probably before whatever happens on Makeb). But that has its problems. For one, if the comics/novels would either be written while the game is still going, which undermines the playability somewhat (why should I play when my character will die, regardless of my input?) or they can be written in 10 years time, when BW closes the last server, which would undermine book sales, since they'd be writing about a game no one is playing anymore/interested in.

 

I would love a novel that shows the fates of the eight player characters. Maybe even giving them canonical genders, names, and species. But again, write it now and why should I keep playing? Or write it later, but will I still care?

 

Thoughts on this issue?

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You`re assuming that those events have to happen within the time span of the game and without pockets of the empire surviving in some, perhaps unexpected way--even unrecognizable way from the point of view of people in the future. The game doesn`t have to end with genocide, in fact, I`m certain it won`t. The end of the empire can happen long after our character`s deaths from old age. Edited by errant_knight
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To stay in line with the EU, the Sith need to be destroyed and the Republic needs to win, but the rest of the Empire's inhabitants doesn't necessarily need to die with the Empire. And it doesn't necessarily need to happen within the 8 characters lifetimes no. Edited by OldVengeance
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Another thing to consider is that fact of the past exist only so far as characters know about those events. These things can change and evolve as new information comes to light. What Luke and the other characters knew as the past isn`t necessarily the whole of it, or even entirely correct. Lots of things can happen, as long as there are times in the future where events are seen as they`ve been shown prior to this. You can bet that if the second three movies had happened after the first 3 instead of before, something messed up would have happened. Edited by errant_knight
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You`re assuming that those events have to happen within the time span of the game and without pockets of the empire surviving in some, perhaps unexpected way--even unrecognizable way from the point of view of people in the future. The game doesn`t have to end with genocide, in fact, I`m certain it won`t. The end of the empire can happen long after our character`s deaths from old age.

 

 

 

Agreed.

Edited by Eightus
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All that needs to occur in the game is for the conflict to continue in one guise or another. We know where the story in Star Wars eventually goes, but we have been left a few thousand years to get there - even as much as 1,500 years to the rise of Darth Ruin.

 

As an example of the span of time involved and the amount of history it can encompass, 1,500 years ago, in our own world, Mohammed had yet to be born. The Western Roman Empire had fallen within the past fifty years. England as a unified kingdom would not exist for another four hundred and fifteen years. By any historical standard, that is a long time.

 

Where SWTOR's story goes over the course of the game is up to the ingenuity of the writers, although I imagine they have a rough outline in mind. For out part, we'll just have to play it to see.

Edited by Uluain
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As mentioned, there's a lot of time between this game and the timeline proper. We also know that the eventual Rebpulic uses the insignia of the current Empire. Given that, I think it's pretty likely that the any eventual endpoint to the story is not likely to involve one side being wiped out, but rather both sides likely coming together. Of course, there's still the requirement to explain what happened to all the Sith...perhaps wherever the story goes leads to the dark side itself being somehow crippled?
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I'm not sure I understand why the game needs to fit in perfectly with the rest of the Star Wars lore, anyway. Granted, I've never read a single Star Wars related novel (and, my knowledge of the EU comes from what I've heard other mention, mostly), but aren't there a bunch of different levels of Canon, or something?

 

Personally, if Bioware came out and said that, as far as they're concerned, their MMO exists on its own level of Canon, I'd be alright with that. For example... you've got the Republic and the Empire, and the war between them... if the Republic ultimately win, then things progress in a way that leads you toward the existing lore. But, if the Empire ultimately win, then you end up with things drifting into an alternate time line... so, it becomes a weird sort of Star Wars alternate history story.

 

Of course, there's nothing to suggest that Bioware's plans for the game are anything like that. I'm just saying that, if they were, I'd be perfectly happy to just go with it.

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I'm not sure I understand why the game needs to fit in perfectly with the rest of the Star Wars lore, anyway.

 

Short answer is that while they are licensed to use the setting, the franchise still belongs to Lucasfilm and a certain amount of emphasis is placed on not contradicting other sources where avoidable.

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Short answer is that while they are licensed to use the setting, the franchise still belongs to Lucasfilm and a certain amount of emphasis is placed on not contradicting other sources where avoidable.

 

And, they could do that pretty easily by declaring the game to be set in its own time line which may, or may not, actually lead into the stuff that comes later. But, if it's LucasArts refusing to loosen the reins that's the issue, then I suppose there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

From a story-telling perspective (especially in something like an MMORPG) it seems horribly limiting, though. Kind of makes you wonder why anyone else would even want to try to write a story in the Star Wars universe.

 

Oh well... I'll still be using the alternate time-line thing as my own personal Canon, for now, at least. Pretty sure Lucasfilm can't actually come after me for changing their story in my own head.

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As an example of the span of time involved and the amount of history it can encompass, 1,500 years ago, in our own world, Mohammed had yet to be born. The Western Roman Empire had fallen within the past fifty years. England as a unified kingdom would not exist for another four hundred and fifteen years. By any historical standard, that is a long time.

 

Except for the fact that 1500 years ago we were hurling spears at each other. 10,000 years can pass in the Star Wars Galaxy and technology will have only changed a little bit, if at all.

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In my opinion, i think that the empire and the republic will eventually merge, but in order to do so, the sith will be taken out of the picture. So i suspect that with the Emperor's death, a power struggle will emerge in the empire with members of the dark council fighting for power. After they fight amongst themselves i believe the military and the citizens of the empire wouldn't be able to be controlled by what is left of the sith, a new treaty could then be forged between the republic and the empire, without the knowledge of the sith. Enabling the republic to step in and wipe out the remaining sith, and then the imperial controlled worlds could then join the republic.
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I dont think you would need to kill all sith. You could imprison them or they could go into hiding again.

 

The OP is a bit off when he said that all the Sith in the Empire have to die to fit with the canon. Darth Ruin's forces begin with the 50 Knights that fall with him and pockets of Sith that are leftover from this Empire.

 

As it's been brought up earlier, all we know is this current Sith Empire is gone by the time Ruin comes around, what we don't know is if it is defeated,wiped out,absorbed by the Republic,defeats the Republic and overthrows the Emperor and DC and becomes a new Republic or some other crazy scenario. The time period just hasn't been fully developed and there is a lot of wiggle room.

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Well we know what the fate of the Empire will be somewhat like other have said we do not know the how and why it fell. As for the Sith characters who to say they die with the Empire it was show somewhere in the EU about a group of Sith crashing on unknow world trap they rebuilded there. They were from i want to say the this Sith Empire or the First Sith Empire i do not know EU i know alittle about except what i come across when i look things up when bored. What to stop any Sith from this Empire from going into unknow space and hiding there and rebuild there powers to control the worlds they my have. Also remember this takes place i want to say 3000 years before the movies could be wrong on time but what does it matter History no matter what tends to be forgotten or misunderstood as age pass by. Old Obi-wan told Luke that the truth we hold dear are from our own point of view when it comes to History that is very true. I would say do not worry about how the game story will end cause in the end it not a big deal just enjoy the game and play let the story come how it will.
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Well we know what the fate of the Empire will be somewhat like other have said we do not know the how and why it fell. As for the Sith characters who to say they die with the Empire it was show somewhere in the EU about a group of Sith crashing on unknow world trap they rebuilded there. They were from i want to say the this Sith Empire or the First Sith Empire i do not know EU i know alittle about except what i come across when i look things up when bored. What to stop any Sith from this Empire from going into unknow space and hiding there and rebuild there powers to control the worlds they my have. Also remember this takes place i want to say 3000 years before the movies could be wrong on time but what does it matter History no matter what tends to be forgotten or misunderstood as age pass by. Old Obi-wan told Luke that the truth we hold dear are from our own point of view when it comes to History that is very true. I would say do not worry about how the game story will end cause in the end it not a big deal just enjoy the game and play let the story come how it will.

 

In the first part of your super paragraph(use the space bar and paragraphs man) I believe you are referring to the Lost Tribe of the Sith. They were Sith from the Empire during the Great Hyperspace War who crashed on the planet and were stranded for some time until reemerging on the scene during Luke's New Jedi Order era.

 

The writers could get lazy and say this is what happens to our Imperial characters but as I said before, large pockets of Sith from this era seem to survive and help to form Ruin's Sith Empire. I'd find it incredibly awful writing if millions of Sith crash landed on different unknown planets throughout the universe and then we discovered by Ruin and convinced to join him.

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It was the Lost Tribe that i was thinking of thank for that. As for Thousand's of Sith escaping into unknow space did not mean that. The idea i was thinking on in my first post was something like the number of Sith that escape or went into hiding be around or lower to the number of Jedi that live after order 66. I will admit story wise i doubt it can or will happen also i do not feel it would fit with the current lore.
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Yep, everyone bites it in the end. Think of it this way, imagine someone watching the movies and The Clone Wars in chronological order. What would be the reaction to watching Obi-Wan getting cut down? Three movies, multitudes of episodes, a ton of attachment for the great Jedi Master, only to see him cut down without even putting up a fight. I think half the problem is that we as Star Wars fans have some stability in our expectations on our favorite characters. I know while reading FotJ series, I knew nothing would happen to Luke, Han, Leia, Corran, Wedge, Lando.... I could go on. Even the shock of the event in Vector Prime, l felt fine with it. It brought it back to a sense of reality, that admittedly allows faster than light travel, plasma swords and Gungans.

 

As far as how it ends and how long the story goes, even in a setting like this, the story must end at some time. Be it the inquisitor killing the warrior, the trooper dying in some hopeless situation, or the smuggler getting offed by a poisoned drink. Maybe they could make the epilogue an optional quest and let us see the fate of our toons if any if we chose. Of course as the way things have been going with this game, BW will probably chicken out and never tell us how it ends, leaving us in a permanent state of war when that final server goes off line.

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Like all MMO, this one just creates a certain status quo and puts whatever content there is into that status quo. Even the individual class and planetary stories within SW:TOR contradict each other. I don't see why a development out of that status quo, progressing into the future would be helpful.
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Like all MMO, this one just creates a certain status quo and puts whatever content there is into that status quo. Even the individual class and planetary stories within SW:TOR contradict each other. I don't see why a development out of that status quo, progressing into the future would be helpful.

 

What is it my warrior says...? Ah, yes, 'some elaboration is in order.' I've seen no contradiction in the stories. They just take place at different times and with people who have different sets of knowledge. What are you referring to?

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What is it my warrior says...? Ah, yes, 'some elaboration is in order.' I've seen no contradiction in the stories. They just take place at different times and with people who have different sets of knowledge. What are you referring to?

Trooper and Republic Balmorra Spoilers

 

Your initial class story contact is angry that you're only there to take one of his best people away to join your squad, rather than help them free the planet. After completing all the quests, including the world arc which involves *freeing the planet,* he remains angry and speaks to you as if you've weakened the resistance movement and left the planet under Sith control. There's no way he would have a "different set of knowledge" seeing as how everyone on the planet would be aware of its liberation.

 

Post-Corellia, both sides

 

After the events on Corellia end, both the Republic and the Empire refer to it more than once as a victory for their side.

 

Edited by CelticMarauder
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Don't forget those planets that they can't let factions share because they contradict each other.

 

Or that I can make a new character and somehow the galaxy is not at war even though my 50 is...

 

Partly its the fact they chose a character based story rather than trying to tell the Galaxies story. They want to make it more personal, but in doing so make it harder to RP well even without the other contradictions.

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