I tend to agree Keeva that it's not really an issue (for me any way). I've rarely seen them in warzones, it's hard to prove this is what they're doing, and it seems petty. However, it could be classified as a form of griefing (which has no personal gains) and it falls under the abuse of game mechanics.

 

The main reason this thread has last so long would probably be me arguing with a wall (I mean another poster) on whether or not this is can be defined as an exploit. =P Bioware wasted time on the Kaon Under Seige terrian exploit though...

The problem is - just because YOU haven't encountered it - doesn't mean others haven't. There's mention in this thread of at least 15 known twinks on my server - and I know more who are planning to do it.

When I enter a warzone and my team GIVES UP (note I said my TEAM - not ME) before even STARTING The damn warzone -- when they give up once a group of these twinks cap 2 nodes on Novare -- when these exploiters LEAVE a tied Huttball match and we lose the game - REPEATEDLY- then it's affecting *me*. When this happens with INCREASING FREQUENCY -- it's affecting *me*. And when I am approached by potential twinks to craft items with certain stats for their 49s--- I know the issue is becoming more of a problem.

And DON'T Tell me to move to 50. I have TWO level 50s. One a War Hero, one a BM. I will move this toon to 50. And start the process all over again with an alt. I have several alts I am leveling to 50 to use as crafters. I also learn to to be a PvPer by PvPing with every class. I level mainly through pvp. Lots of people are altaholics. I , and they, have EVERY

right to BE alt-aholics and to PvP within the ruleset - and NOT have their games in ANY way disturbed by exploiters. They have every RIGHT to stay in the lower level bracket of PvP leveling alts - as LONG AS THEY DO NOT EXPLOIT IN ORDER TO DO SO. And no one should NEVER, EVER feel (or be told) that THEY have to "rush" or "just get through and move on" to level 50 PvP because of exploiters and cheaters. Ever.

End. Of. Argument.

Also don't tell me I am "jealous" of the twinks because of their gear. Time to put that ridiculous ASSumption to rest also. I have over 400 million credits. I can buy/make any damn gear I want. I don't care about their gear. I care about how they affect MY gameplay by exploiting.

clarification: While I quoted you Doomosdaycomes -- the post was largely directed not specifically at you - other than your comments that this isn't affecting you , and it seems "petty". When something that is an EXPLOIT - causes negative ramifications FOR ME and others - several others in this thread in fact- (and you can bet most people affected ---don't even bother to post.) - when this happens the issue is no longer "petty" or "not an issue".

You know, after reaching level 50, and going from "credit to the team no matter the level" to "Lol you just have recruit, enjoy watching our stacked team just steamroll you", yeah, I can see why some people would rather just not level up. Besides, if you don't like twinks in your precious under 50 bracket, hurry up and level to 50, and find out that, no, having the occasional marauder smashing your face in really isn't as bad as a whole team of laughing jedi.

 

HTFU

Start saving comms at 40 - you'll have more than recruit.

This is ridiculous since MOST people don't CHEAT and manage to deal. These people can put their big boy/girl pants on too, move on, and play the game they way it was intended to be played like most people do.

@Seena:

aah, now we can zero in on your problem.

You have problem with quitters, not twinkers.

easy fix, before first que to WZ per char, there should be warning note 'you might be put against good/strong/higher level players, are you sure you want to continue, please don't whine if you get beaten up'.

it is NOT an exploit to leave wz 'End. Of. Discussion.' (lol )

Oh my god, griefing in PvP ? Wikipedia definitions ? Quick, call the whaambulance ! This game is totally broken !

Get over yourself, doomsday. All you provided is anecdotal evidence as best. Look at the facts and at what's happening here and now. The only people that beat this dead horse is the ones that can't handle the heat. So there are suck players with best gear, but you can't beat them, i think that says a lot more about you than the twinks. I can't wait to see someone with 16k+ HP to beat the living jeebus out of him. Pink-purple lightsaber is an automatic death mark from me as well. I will hunt you down for the whole duration of the WZ, or i'll just play the objectives and deny you victory, either way it's win-win for me. Yes, i'm that good, at least compared to 80% of the lowbie pvp players on my server. It's not a problem for me. It is for some you, so maybe you should turn those dev tracker/forum/google/wikipedia searching skills inward, and look stuff up like the Dunning-Kruger effect and everything else related with illusory superiority.

BW did not say anything about this mess precisely because it's a non-issue. I don't care how you label the people that pimp their chars, or if the issue is gamebreaking or just a "pet peeve" for you. It's YOU. All i've read in this thread is that omg, those people SUCK and it's their gear that wins them 1vNs and WZs and whatever. Guess what, NO. It's all you, dear gungans. Gear matters and if you have at least blue mods of your level or at least no more than 2 levels lower, you will do just fine, and if you have the skill you can outplay any twink all day long and /dance on his corpse. Choose your gear right, choose your spec right and learn to play, and you're on equal footing with any twink. That's why it's not an issue. It's so simple it's mind boggling, isn't it ?

And for the last time, what i do with my time, credits and money is my business and no one else's. If i choose to stay at a certain level forever and ever, it's my right, privilege and honor to do so. If I decide chasing some stupid carrot forever is not worth my time, credits and money, it's also my decision and mine alone. Oh yay, gear treadmill forever and ever, until the game closes or BW wakes up. No thanks. Even if i had all my chars to 50, i still wouldn't do it. I mean, i pvp on most of my chars and partly because i can gather up some comms, but i'm in no rush whatsoever to hit 50. I rather do gray quests and listen to the voice-overs for the 8th time than run that treadmill all over again. Because son, i've been there, done that and got the t-shirt. If you think i'm here for gear grind, you are severely mistaken.

So closing up, unless you're ready to cough up my monthly subscription fee, you have no right to tell me what i can or cannot do, and how i should or shouldn't play. It's a MMORPG, you gungan, it's all about choice. Now move on and learn to play.

3k hp is not such a biggie

Umm.... what?

3k HP is 2 attacks at least in pre-50 PVP unless you're another completely twinked out toon. Probably more like 3-4 for lower level toons that don't have their biggest hitters yet. So unless 2-4 extra GCDs per fight doesn't seem like a big deal to you, then you're wrong.

Umm.... what?

 

3k HP is 2 attacks at least in pre-50 PVP unless you're another completely twinked out toon. Probably more like 3-4 for lower level toons that don't have their biggest hitters yet. So unless 2-4 extra GCDs per fight doesn't seem like a big deal to you, then you're wrong.

Nope, I'm not 'twinky' (unless you count L38 char twinkie), that extra 3k hp came from people stacking endu over anything else so as stated, it's not a 'biggie'. Didn't say it's nothing.

Like undying rage on marauder. Some can QQ about it all their life, but for skilled player, it's not a biggie. It is noticable, can be annoying, but it's not a biggie.

I have over 400 million credits. I can buy/make any damn gear I want. I don't care about their gear. I care about how they affect MY gameplay by exploiting.

Lies, I've been doing every kind of daily possible, every day at least on two characters. Even so, I only have 84 million and I regularly sell crafted items on the GTN. 400 million is just absurd.

Lies, I've been doing every kind of daily possible, every day at least on two characters. Even so, I only have 84 million and I regularly sell crafted items on the GTN. 400 million is just absurd.

No not lies. But go ahead and make lame accusations. I've sold 3 discontinued speeders in the last month alone, for 25 million each (ty F2P and cartel coins!) I've been selling them since they were discontinued. I have several more, along with many other limited run items. I've been playing since pre-launch and I have 2 accounts in my household. So ya, totally possible to have that many credits. No matter how "absurd" YOU think it is.

*rolls eyes again.*

 

You have provided two links.

 

One is an article on fixing bugs and exploits, and you claim this is enough to tell Bioware's definiton of an exploit. The article is specifically about bugs and exploits of bugs, and says nothing to the effect of "all exploits are bugs." You have failed to prove this is Bioware's sole definiton of what is an exploit.

 

You then provided an apology post from Bioware, and miss-stated it's context. The apology was for the GM's actions which broke several of Bioware's standards, and the actions of the players were not against the natural way a pvp server is intended. That link isn't even relevant to the conversation.

 

So no, I will not argue with a person whom uses their own definitons, backwards logic, and is plainly just stubborn. Now for your amusement, have a link to wikipedia, which has other sources quoted (in case you wanna pull "wikipedia's not a reliable source). Video Game Exploiting.

 

While I'm sure you'll cling to your "bioware's definition," note the section that covers both greifing using an exploit, and the list of common exploits where you will find "Game Mechanics."

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is likely you will not receive another response from me. Good day sir.

*Puts on fancy smart glasses and peruses comment*

*Still sees no actual proof of staying 49 being an exploit, unintended game design, a bug, an error, a glitch, whatever.*

/drink egg nog

The entire exploit was explained to me by someone preparing to use the exploit in answer to those exploiting. That's how I learned about it.

 

So no reason to give these people the benefit of the doubt - there is no doubt.

...because your anecdotal evidence is more compelling than everyone else's anecdotal evidence.

~Eggs

Oh my god, griefing in PvP ? Wikipedia definitions ? Quick, call the whaambulance ! This game is totally broken !

 

Get over yourself, doomsday. All you provided is anecdotal evidence as best.

 

*snip*

1.ToS.

2. Rebuttal to the "Squashing Bugs and Fixing Exploits."

3. Post Proving Bioware may not (and usually doesn't) acknowledge exploits till fixed.

4. Citing Kaon Under Seige terrian exploit was fixed without acknowledgement.

5. Ilum Exploit article where Bioware flat out said it would not punish all who exploited it, only the worst offenders.

6. External Definitions of Exploits used -by- the industry in general.

Do you even know what anecdotal means?

<.< and I'm not telling you how to play, though judging from your knee-jerk reaction and lack of reading comprehension... me thinks you has a guilty conscience. If -I- wanted to do this, do you think it being an "exploit/abuse" would stop me until Bioware either ruled on the issue (or fixed it)?

I'm still gonna dismiss dead companions and resummon them rather than revive and regen. (don't tell me you think this was an intended feature.)

I'm still gonna pull people with the ball up into our spawn (instant kill btw... falls under safe zone exploits).

If/When Ilum was up, I'd still pull people into the base for an instant kill.

I'm still gonna skip entire rooms of mobs by running through them, then using a field probe (free for subs).

The difference is, if anyone called any of these things an exploit/abuse, I'd agree. These are clearly not intended features (the field respawn is my favorite. Trivializes almost all of my class missions when I don't care about the exp)

I've stated repeatedly this exploit/abuse is pretty much a non-issue for me (and offending Seena at the same time. Sorry :-( ) and the only real reason I continue to post is people being so biased they attack anyone who challenges what they're doing as not quite being on the up-and-up. =P I just happen to have more facts at my disposal, and an open enough mind to say yes, without God (I mean Bioware) coming down and stamping "exploit" on something, no one can be 100% sure what Bioware considers an exploit.

=P But we can be 99%, and I've got plenty of source material to prove it. What have you got... oh ya, that Look-I'm-about-as-mature-as-a-six-year-old-so-don't-tell-me-how-to-play-MY-Game! ... -.- when I never even said you should stop.

i prefer a nice brie with my whine. how about you guys?

1.ToS.

2. Rebuttal to the "Squashing Bugs and Fixing Exploits."

3. Post Proving Bioware may not (and usually doesn't) acknowledge exploits till fixed.

4. Citing Kaon Under Seige terrian exploit was fixed without acknowledgement.

5. Ilum Exploit article where Bioware flat out said it would not punish all who exploited it, only the worst offenders.

6. External Definitions of Exploits used -by- the industry in general.

 

Do you even know what anecdotal means?

 

<.< and I'm not telling you how to play, though judging from your knee-jerk reaction and lack of reading comprehension... me thinks you has a guilty conscience. If -I- wanted to do this, do you think it being an "exploit/abuse" would stop me until Bioware either ruled on the issue (or fixed it)?

 

I'm still gonna dismiss dead companions and resummon them rather than revive and regen. (don't tell me you think this was an intended feature.)

I'm still gonna pull people with the ball up into our spawn (instant kill btw... falls under safe zone exploits).

If/When Ilum was up, I'd still pull people into the base for an instant kill.

I'm still gonna skip entire rooms of mobs by running through them, then using a field probe (free for subs).

 

The difference is, if anyone called any of these things an exploit/abuse, I'd agree. These are clearly not intended features (the field respawn is my favorite. Trivializes almost all of my class missions when I don't care about the exp)

 

I've stated repeatedly this exploit/abuse is pretty much a non-issue for me (and offending Seena at the same time. Sorry :-( ) and the only real reason I continue to post is people being so biased they attack anyone who challenges what they're doing as not quite being on the up-and-up. =P I just happen to have more facts at my disposal, and an open enough mind to say yes, without God (I mean Bioware) coming down and stamping "exploit" on something, no one can be 100% sure what Bioware considers an exploit.

 

=P But we can be 99%, and I've got plenty of source material to prove it. What have you got... oh ya, that Look-I'm-about-as-mature-as-a-six-year-old-so-don't-tell-me-how-to-play-MY-Game! ... -.- when I never even said you should stop.

You aren't "offending" me. That would imply you are possessed of power you simply don't have.

I do however have little credit to give to people who feel that since exploits don't affect them personally - they should be dismissed.

Your right, of course. But don't ask me to respect it.

Now, I'll exit this part of the discussion before it gets ugly.

You aren't "offending" me. That would imply you are possessed of power you simply don't have.

 

I do however have little credit to give to people who feel that since exploits don't affect them personally - they should be dismissed.

 

Your right, of course. But don't ask me to respect it.

 

Now, I'll exit this part of the discussion before it gets ugly.

=P of course, and again I respect your right to bring up this issue to the forums (and possibly dev's if they are listening.)

As for exiting the conversation, I'm pretty much done myself. *Rolls eyes at the other posters* If I hear one more post about learn to play and stop crying, I will be convince our public school system (or whatever their country of origion) are a failure and most people graduate without being able to read.

I hope the materials I and others have brought in help if you wish to continue to argue with before mentioned brick walls. =P Whatever the outcome, may BW actual resolve your issue in a timely manner and have a good one.

This is a Thread????

Really?

By the way I do this. It is Spectacularly fun. I also have a level 50 in full War Hero gear (augmented etc.) SO I "put my big boy pants on" as well. I feel no Shame. None. I worked long and hard to make my Twink. I spent millions of credits on my twink. And I will proudly play him till I the game ceases to function.

You all need to lighten up.

Seriously.

Like Now.

Generally I find the people who whine about warzones don't know the difference between Tactics and Tacitus. Think a Hot Key is what you use to start the flame thingy on the stove so they can cook their Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. And feel that somehow their win loss record in warzones with lightsabers actually provides an accurate reflection of their true self worth.

1.ToS.

2. Rebuttal to the "Squashing Bugs and Fixing Exploits."

3. Post Proving Bioware may not (and usually doesn't) acknowledge exploits till fixed.

4. Citing Kaon Under Seige terrian exploit was fixed without acknowledgement.

5. Ilum Exploit article where Bioware flat out said it would not punish all who exploited it, only the worst offenders.

6. External Definitions of Exploits used -by- the industry in general.

 

Do you even know what anecdotal means?

I know exactly what it means and it's exactly what you're doing.

1. Nothing in the ToS prohibits a player from using a feature.

2. The what of what ?

3. Irrelevant

4. Irrelevant

5. Somewhat relevant because Ilum was a big thing back then, kinda how WZs are. It's less likely they took care of a bug and left out another major bug just for the heck of it.

6. Irrelevant

<.< and I'm not telling you how to play, though judging from your knee-jerk reaction and lack of reading comprehension... me thinks you has a guilty conscience. If -I- wanted to do this, do you think it being an "exploit/abuse" would stop me until Bioware either ruled on the issue (or fixed it)?

I don't feel guilty about anything. It's actually cry babies like you that make me contemplate staying 49 forever just to feast on your tears.

I'm still gonna dismiss dead companions and resummon them rather than revive and regen. (don't tell me you think this was an intended feature.)

I'm still gonna pull people with the ball up into our spawn (instant kill btw... falls under safe zone exploits).

If/When Ilum was up, I'd still pull people into the base for an instant kill.

I'm still gonna skip entire rooms of mobs by running through them, then using a field probe (free for subs).

Features.

Do you have any clue what would happen if you couldn't summon a dead companion ? Wanna go back to that room full of champs and elites and rez your char ? You have any idea how inconvenient that would be ?

Not different from pulling someone in the fire or acid or void, you pull them in a hazard area. WAI.

You still die, you still take durability damage, it's completely intended. I see no problem with this. You die, you can't do it continuously because there's a timer on that field probe that gets higher and higher the more you die.

The difference is, if anyone called any of these things an exploit/abuse, I'd agree. These are clearly not intended features (the field respawn is my favorite. Trivializes almost all of my class missions when I don't care about the exp)

Exactly, when you don't care about XP. For someone like me with multiple alts, getting the most out of class missions is critical -- since basically i do pvp and story quests and that's how i level up. You still give up something. It's not an exploit. It's just clever use of game mechanics. If you're not interested in XP, you have the freedom to skip that part. That's choice, buddy boy. That's what mmorpgs are all about.

I've stated repeatedly this exploit/abuse is pretty much a non-issue for me (and offending Seena at the same time. Sorry :-( ) and the only real reason I continue to post is people being so biased they attack anyone who challenges what they're doing as not quite being on the up-and-up. =P I just happen to have more facts at my disposal, and an open enough mind to say yes, without God (I mean Bioware) coming down and stamping "exploit" on something, no one can be 100% sure what Bioware considers an exploit.

 

=P But we can be 99%, and I've got plenty of source material to prove it. What have you got... oh ya, that Look-I'm-about-as-mature-as-a-six-year-old-so-don't-tell-me-how-to-play-MY-Game! ... -.- when I never even said you should stop.

Wait, advocating freedom in a mmo is bias ? Really ? Hate against a particular group that practices a particular something isn't bias ? Really man, just shut up. You have no facts, you brought some bull and interpreted it the way you wanted. I can interpret it the way i want it and we can do this all year. I pointed out that something as big as staying lvl xx forever would've been fixed, if BW wanted to fix it. You just WISH they would fix it, so your behind wouldn't have to suffer the inhumanity of being stomped in some lowbie WZ that you don't even care about.

So drop the know-it-all attitude, you're actually very closed-minded for not taking into account what lack of freedom means in a mmorpg, how obsolete the gear treadmill is and how boring a game becomes when it's centered around that. Everyone should be free to do what they like - farming Dootu Mu Bacha for 8 hours straight, pimping up their char, finding the best look for their char, leveling up with class quests and space missions only, whatever. It's about choice and freedom to play the way you want to. The fact that you see this "forever young" thing as an exploit or unintended use of game mechanics is quite honestly irrelevant. It's an opinion, you voiced it and you believe it in spite the truth staring you in the face: leaving warzones whenever you want is a feature, not a bug.

Lastly, in the off-chance you DO care about lowbie pvp, put some effort into your gear and skills and no pink-purple 49er will give you trouble. But hey, it's easier to whine than to think.

This is a Thread????

 

Really?

 

By the way I do this. It is Spectacularly fun. I also have a level 50 in full War Hero gear (augmented etc.) SO I "put my big boy pants on" as well. I feel no Shame. None. I worked long and hard to make my Twink. I spent millions of credits on my twink. And I will proudly play him till I the game ceases to function.

 

You all need to lighten up.

 

Seriously.

 

Like Now.

 

 

Generally I find the people who whine about warzones don't know the difference between Tactics and Tacitus. Think a Hot Key is what you use to start the flame thingy on the stove so they can cook their Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. And feel that somehow their win loss record in warzones with lightsabers actually provides an accurate reflection of their true self worth.

the above statement in pink will follow you for the rest of your life..

This is a Thread????

 

Really?

 

By the way I do this. It is Spectacularly fun. I also have a level 50 in full War Hero gear (augmented etc.) SO I "put my big boy pants on" as well. I feel no Shame. None. I worked long and hard to make my Twink. I spent millions of credits on my twink. And I will proudly play him till I the game ceases to function.

 

You all need to lighten up.

 

Seriously.

 

Like Now.

 

 

Generally I find the people who whine about warzones don't know the difference between Tactics and Tacitus. Think a Hot Key is what you use to start the flame thingy on the stove so they can cook their Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. And feel that somehow their win loss record in warzones with lightsabers actually provides an accurate reflection of their true self worth.

Ohhh I will work VERY VERY long and hard to do what ever I can to make sure this is fixed.

As for whining about warzones and knowing of tactics - I'm not the one using an exploit to stay level 49 in perpetuity and spending millions to beat up on lower level toons now, am I?

Ohhh I will work VERY VERY long and hard to do what ever I can to make sure this is fixed.

there is nothing to fix.

Add XP with each medal (up to the usual 8 limit). Problem solved, unless they just like running around posing but doing nothing except hiding well away from the objectives.

I think this is the solution... Someone also suggested maybe dividing the xp up in 1/3rds and 1/4ths.

It would help with people who unintentionally disconnect also.....

Pretty easy fix it seems....

=P of course, and again I respect your right to bring up this issue to the forums (and possibly dev's if they are listening.)

 

As for exiting the conversation, I'm pretty much done myself. *Rolls eyes at the other posters* If I hear one more post about learn to play and stop crying, I will be convince our public school system (or whatever their country of origion) are a failure and most people graduate without being able to read.

 

I hope the materials I and others have brought in help if you wish to continue to argue with before mentioned brick walls. =P Whatever the outcome, may BW actual resolve your issue in a timely manner and have a good one.

Thanks == and again, while we may not agree on certain aspects of this exploit - I appreciate your input and the fact that you were able to state your opinions without acrimony or bitterness. That is always a great thing.

Best to you..

S

the above statement in pink will follow you for the rest of your life..

And he just gave trolls their meal... blast..

I have been going hard on my alts to get some flavor at 50 and have yet to run into a "twink". If they want to do that then eh I rather PvP with the 50's.

lol then u haven't seen me I'll post u a screen when I get home

I know exactly what it means and it's exactly what you're doing.

*snip*

Cool Story Bro.

an·ec·do·tal

/ˌanikˈdōtl/

Adjective

1.(of an account) Not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

2.Characterized by or fond of telling anecdotes.

If you really cared about "freedom of choice" you'd petition bioware for an inclusion of an "exp/rewards" toggle so you could finish a warzone and actually see who won and your score. As you also haven't read or understood a word I said about my opinion on this "seriousness" of this issue and apparently Official Bioware Articles, Official Bioware Posts, the ToS, and Industry Relevant articles are ancedotal in your eyes, I will not waste my time.

Thanks == and again, while we may not agree on certain aspects of this exploit - I appreciate your input and the fact that you were able to state your opinions without acrimony or bitterness. That is always a great thing.

 

Best to you..

 

S

*sighs* I keep saying I'm done and then I give into the urge to laugh at someone's willful ignorance. Sorry, it seems your thread got a little hijacked on what qualifies as an exploit. However, I do have something relevant to add:

I believe someone might have mentioned this before, but I think whether to "fix" this issue or just as a good feature to add to pvp, medals should give exp when received. I would reduce the exp reward at the end by 10% or so, and then add scaling exp rewards per medal that equal out to that 10%.

I'm open to anyone who can point out something I missed, but of any leveling activity PvP is the only one that doesn't give full rewards till it's completed. Quests have mobs, activities and bonuses that give exp even if you drop the quest instead of turning it in. Flashpoints are the same. Space missions give a little exp per enemy destroyed as well as contianing bonuses, etc... Even exploration grants small amounts of exp when encountering a new area or accessing a new "codex." Adding small activity related exp in pvp would only bring it more in line with other level related activities.

I'd love to hear (not directed at you Seena) a reason the inclussion of experience for medals (capping at 8 as normal) when you receive them isn't a good thing, even just from an equality of "playstyles" standpoint.