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Powertech changes take two


TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
11.13.2017 , 12:53 PM | #1
Well since most people lost their damn minds over my first idea, I decided to revise and revisit my ideas. Ofcourse this applies accross to Vanguards.

1 change I have not changed my mind on is taking gut from AP and putting it on shield to replace translocate. Just give gut a small 5% chance of increasing threat per strike cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds while having the bleed.

I'd replace gut with what I would call AP shot. Just like shattershot but instead it's against 1 target, does bleeding damage, and has a 10m range. This also would cause the same ability that gut produces with rail shot, but now you have an ability you can use out to 10 meters. Yes I've given up the 15M+ want, but not giving up on a rotation I can use at 10M instead. Other change I'd make for AP is remove the heat, or an ability to remove the heat from thermal detonator. I mean really, generating heat to throw a frakking grenade? REALLY?!

For pyro, someone give me a better idea for heat management. Honestly I think and it's my 2 credits, that pyro should have better heat management to the level of say IO on Mercs. That way you could get through 2-3 rotations before having to vent.

And defensively I think ST should get something vs PT vs AP.

ST should get TR and Responsive Safeguards(or something to that affect). Better shielding abilities for the ST would be a nice thing.

PT should get KO(though again 50% instead of the 70%) .

AP should get Electronet. Help slow people down and stay at that 10M range. Also a nice root with rocket punch wouldn't be amiss.

Overall PT ability(yes this idea is probably OP, but bear with me, this can be tossed if it's too much). With the should cannon. An ability of where you let all the missiles load up, you can actually fire all at once, but if you do so you have a 3-5 minute cool down for this big burst instead of using them one at a time and having a normal cool down. Yes might be a bit much, but atleast it would give a nice right hook ability with the shoulder cannon which is anemic.

Yes my ideas. Some will say L2P, or this or that. No, I do ok, I just think these abilities can make the class do better and be a better tank or damage dealer.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
11.13.2017 , 03:15 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Well since most people lost their damn minds over my first idea, I decided to revise and revisit my ideas. Ofcourse this applies accross to Vanguards.

1 change I have not changed my mind on is taking gut from AP and putting it on shield to replace translocate. Just give gut a small 5% chance of increasing threat per strike cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds while having the bleed.

I'd replace gut with what I would call AP shot. Just like shattershot but instead it's against 1 target, does bleeding damage, and has a 10m range. This also would cause the same ability that gut produces with rail shot, but now you have an ability you can use out to 10 meters. Yes I've given up the 15M+ want, but not giving up on a rotation I can use at 10M instead. Other change I'd make for AP is remove the heat, or an ability to remove the heat from thermal detonator. I mean really, generating heat to throw a frakking grenade? REALLY?!

For pyro, someone give me a better idea for heat management. Honestly I think and it's my 2 credits, that pyro should have better heat management to the level of say IO on Mercs. That way you could get through 2-3 rotations before having to vent.

And defensively I think ST should get something vs PT vs AP.

ST should get TR and Responsive Safeguards(or something to that affect). Better shielding abilities for the ST would be a nice thing.

PT should get KO(though again 50% instead of the 70%) .

AP should get Electronet. Help slow people down and stay at that 10M range. Also a nice root with rocket punch wouldn't be amiss.

Overall PT ability(yes this idea is probably OP, but bear with me, this can be tossed if it's too much). With the should cannon. An ability of where you let all the missiles load up, you can actually fire all at once, but if you do so you have a 3-5 minute cool down for this big burst instead of using them one at a time and having a normal cool down. Yes might be a bit much, but atleast it would give a nice right hook ability with the shoulder cannon which is anemic.

Yes my ideas. Some will say L2P, or this or that. No, I do ok, I just think these abilities can make the class do better and be a better tank or damage dealer.
Nice to see my ideas taking root. The replacement of Gut with ranged Gut and all that. This is what needs to happen:

Shield: Get rid of Translocate(or as I call it "Troll locate") and replace it with something. Gets Shock, loses Firestorm. Shock has a new proc that causes mini taunts every time you use it. Translocate replacement could be a new defensive buff.
AP: 15m range, Gut becomes ranged and inherits Sunder from Stock
Pyro: 10m range, trades Shock for Firestorm. Also, reduce Flame Burst / Sweep Energy cost down to 10(with or without a passive, don't care). Perhaps return double proc for Flame Barrage.

That should do it. For me.
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

BillyHunter's Avatar


BillyHunter
11.13.2017 , 03:44 PM | #3
I have a suggestion.
1.) Give PT/VG double ticked kolto up to 50%. Maybe reduce the cooldown, not by much though.

2.) Turn Hydrolic Override into a DCD, giving them x amount of damage resistance for duration. Make this a legendary or heroic utility.

3.) Allow Translocate to be used by any spec, and allow to be used while moving and at any range. Make this ability somewhat useful.

4.) Put in another DCD for the tank spec to replace Translocate. At this point, any good idea for an ability would work, whether it's reflect or something else.
VENGEANCE

egriz's Avatar


egriz
11.13.2017 , 05:32 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post

1 change I have not changed my mind on is taking gut from AP and putting it on shield to replace translocate. Just give gut a small 5% chance of increasing threat per strike cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds while having the bleed.

I'd replace gut with what I would call AP shot. Just like shattershot but instead it's against 1 target, does bleeding damage, and has a 10m range. This also would cause the same ability that gut produces with rail shot, but now you have an ability you can use out to 10 meters. Yes I've given up the 15M+ want, but not giving up on a rotation I can use at 10M instead. Other change I'd make for AP is remove the heat, or an ability to remove the heat from thermal detonator. I mean really, generating heat to throw a frakking grenade? REALLY?!
The damage and rotation of Tactics is great, no changes needed there, it only needs dcd buffs.
And I don't even get why you would want to change gut to something else. You apply gut once, and then refresh it with HIB. What is the point of increasing the range? You still have to be in 4m for stockstrike!
Other than stockstrike though, the entire rotation is 10m even now!

Don't know about pt, but for the vanguard, a grenade costing ammo/energy makes sense to me. And the cost-ruduction isn't needed either.

Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post

For pyro, someone give me a better idea for heat management. Honestly I think and it's my 2 credits, that pyro should have better heat management to the level of say IO on Mercs. That way you could get through 2-3 rotations before having to vent.
Pre-5.0 Pulse Cannon (3 sec channel) cost 28 energy, so 14 energy/gcd. This was replaced by Ion wave, which is 20 energy/gcd. If the cost of Ion wave is reduced to 15, the energy management is almost the same as it used to be.

However! I have to say that I have not played this spec since the latest changes to it, so I don't know how much this is needed.


Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post

AP should get Electronet. Help slow people down and stay at that 10M range. Also a nice root with rocket punch wouldn't be amiss.

Overall PT ability(yes this idea is probably OP, but bear with me, this can be tossed if it's too much). With the should cannon. An ability of where you let all the missiles load up, you can actually fire all at once, but if you do so you have a 3-5 minute cool down for this big burst instead of using them one at a time and having a normal cool down. Yes might be a bit much, but atleast it would give a nice right hook ability with the shoulder cannon which is anemic.
Electronet is quite unbalanced in my opinion, no need for even more classes to have it. If you want to slow down your opponents, pick the Entangling tools/Suppressive tools utility.

I don't think the shoulder cannon suggestion is a good idea, the burst would be too much.

Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post

Yes my ideas. Some will say L2P, or this or that. No, I do ok, I just think these abilities can make the class do better and be a better tank or damage dealer.
Don't try to change what doesn't need to be changed. The only things in desperate need of adjustments are the defensives.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
11.13.2017 , 05:52 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by egriz View Post
The damage and rotation of Tactics is great, no changes needed there, it only needs dcd buffs.
And I don't even get why you would want to change gut to something else. You apply gut once, and then refresh it with HIB. What is the point of increasing the range? You still have to be in 4m for stockstrike!
Other than stockstrike though, the entire rotation is 10m even now!

Don't know about pt, but for the vanguard, a grenade costing ammo/energy makes sense to me. And the cost-ruduction isn't needed either.

Pre-5.0 Pulse Cannon (3 sec channel) cost 28 energy, so 14 energy/gcd. This was replaced by Ion wave, which is 20 energy/gcd. If the cost of Ion wave is reduced to 15, the energy management is almost the same as it used to be.

However! I have to say that I have not played this spec since the latest changes to it, so I don't know how much this is needed.

Electronet is quite unbalanced in my opinion, no need for even more classes to have it. If you want to slow down your opponents, pick the Entangling tools/Suppressive tools utility.

I don't think the shoulder cannon suggestion is a good idea, the burst would be too much.

Don't try to change what doesn't need to be changed. The only things in desperate need of adjustments are the defensives.
To the first point that's exactly the point. I want the entire rotation at 10m except for rocket. And in AP I almost never use it and the ability to use a ranged form of gut means I never have to close in and rocket is a nice last resort move. Whole point of moving the entire rotation to 10k.

Second point on electronet. The entanglement is just garbage to begin with.

Far as the cost reduction works for me. But something is needed. Can't get through even two rotations before having to vent or spam hammer shot. A LOT.

Point is the rotations for AP are mismatched. I mean why have a major part of the rotation be something at 4m but the rest of the rotation can be used at 10+ meters? Makes zero sense.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

egriz's Avatar


egriz
11.13.2017 , 06:22 PM | #6
I still fail to see why you want these changes.

for PVE:
In almost all boss-fights you have to sit on the boss, being within 4m range for max damage. It is really easy to accomplish, so absolutely no need for change.

for PVP:
First of all, in a lot of situations, using gut is a mistake. If you anticipate that either you or your target will die quickly, it is better off using a heavy hitter ability instead of gut. It is also not wise to use gut on someone who will most likely cleanse himself soon.

But if it will be a long fight and you want to use gut...

against ranged:
Does not matter whether you are at 10m or 4m, because you are well within their range. If you think about it, 4m is even better, because it takes them more time to escape your range. No need for a 10m gut.

against other melee:
They also have 4-10m skills, they also have stuns, roots, slows. If they want to get close to you, they will. And since most of the time you will be 4m or less from them, no need for a 10m gut.


And let me say it again: if you use gut the right way, you either only have to use it ONCE, or really infrequently. And if you want to maximize your damage, you HAVE to move in 4m range every ~9sec anyways for stockstrike!

Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
I want the entire rotation at 10m except for rocket. And in AP I almost never use it and the ability to use a ranged form of gut means I never have to close in and rocket is a nice last resort move. Whole point of moving the entire rotation to 10k.
What do you mean you almost never use it? And it is a nice last resort move? You are not using rocket punch the right way.

Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post

Point is the rotations for AP are mismatched. I mean why have a major part of the rotation be something at 4m but the rest of the rotation can be used at 10+ meters? Makes zero sense.
That "major part" of the rotation is gut ONCE, and then only rocket punch. Everything else is 10+.

And here's the reason (in general): you want to be in min range for max dps. But if for some reason you fail to be in that range, you still have other, higher ranged skills to use, so you aren't running around, doing nothing.

AP is even better in this regard than other melees, because it has only 1 skill in the rotation at min range (rocket punch).

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
11.13.2017 , 07:05 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by egriz View Post
I still fail to see why you want these changes.

for PVE:
In almost all boss-fights you have to sit on the boss, being within 4m range for max damage. It is really easy to accomplish, so absolutely no need for change.

for PVP:
First of all, in a lot of situations, using gut is a mistake. If you anticipate that either you or your target will die quickly, it is better off using a heavy hitter ability instead of gut. It is also not wise to use gut on someone who will most likely cleanse himself soon.

But if it will be a long fight and you want to use gut...

against ranged:
Does not matter whether you are at 10m or 4m, because you are well within their range. If you think about it, 4m is even better, because it takes them more time to escape your range. No need for a 10m gut.

against other melee:
They also have 4-10m skills, they also have stuns, roots, slows. If they want to get close to you, they will. And since most of the time you will be 4m or less from them, no need for a 10m gut.


And let me say it again: if you use gut the right way, you either only have to use it ONCE, or really infrequently. And if you want to maximize your damage, you HAVE to move in 4m range every ~9sec anyways for stockstrike!



What do you mean you almost never use it? And it is a nice last resort move? You are not using rocket punch the right way.



That "major part" of the rotation is gut ONCE, and then only rocket punch. Everything else is 10+.

And here's the reason (in general): you want to be in min range for max dps. But if for some reason you fail to be in that range, you still have other, higher ranged skills to use, so you aren't running around, doing nothing.

AP is even better in this regard than other melees, because it has only 1 skill in the rotation at min range (rocket punch).
Don't play PVP I find it a dumpster fire of a mode. So I can't talk to that. Far as PVE. I never really close in with AP. I have almost no need for rocket punch. I mean I will do it quickly once I get rocket charge but once I hit it once, I never really hit it again unless I get into range.

But I'd rather have a ranged version of gut so when I hit HiB/RS I don't have to wait to close in. I can fire if I'm chasing and then use HiB. 10m range gives more flexibility to hit abilities. On top of defenses, flexibility is lacking in PT/VG.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
11.13.2017 , 07:09 PM | #8
What's with this obsession with Gut, it's applied once and then maintained just by following your rotation without ever having to reapply it, it hardly seems an issue to me that it's 4m range with how rarely it needs to be activated. I'd much rather have 30m range railshot back and keep 4m gut. Having 30m ranged abilities and melee abilities and 10m abilities mixed is what made PT a fun hybrid spec to me. Or if 30m railshot would be too much, I'd like to see a utility to get 30m railshot, but it deals less damage beyond 10m range (like juggs can get with force scream) and make it always do full damage during say explosive fuel.

That said if you insist on wanting it 10m range (credit where credit is due, you did at place a dot back for AP this time), what is the point of dumping it in shield tech? Just replace it with a 10m range ability and be done with it, shield tech does not need it. However bad translocate may be, at least it's occasionally useful in pvp to save a healer, I'd much rather have translocate than gut on shield tech.

AP does not need net, not only would the effect be ridiculous in pvp and make Pt's nearly unkitable, it does quite a bit of damage which would have to be removed somewhere else, as AP's damage is fine right now.

Defensively just give Pt's kolto overload to 50% with increased healing speed and give tanks a short cheesy style cooldown to replace translocate, with that I think Pt's will be perfectly viable.

Also Cuiwe hands off muh Firestorm keep it for tanks, it's one of their biggest hitters and their solid AoE damage is pretty much the only selling point over other tanks. Besides pyro already gets a big buff on searing wave, if you want to replace it with firestorm, the damage has to go down, making it essentially just an animation swap. And flaming fist makes so much more sense in pyro than in shield.

egriz's Avatar


egriz
11.14.2017 , 02:42 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Don't play PVP I find it a dumpster fire of a mode. So I can't talk to that. Far as PVE. I never really close in with AP. I have almost no need for rocket punch. I mean I will do it quickly once I get rocket charge but once I hit it once, I never really hit it again unless I get into range.

But I'd rather have a ranged version of gut so when I hit HiB/RS I don't have to wait to close in. I can fire if I'm chasing and then use HiB. 10m range gives more flexibility to hit abilities. On top of defenses, flexibility is lacking in PT/VG.
The only reason why I wrote about PVP is because I was absolutely sure you wanted a ranged gut for PVP.
If you do PVE and do not close the gap and use rocket punch, you are constantly losing dps!

Your filler skill is Magnetic blast/Tactical surge, right? This is what you use when you can still afford to spend energy, but the heavy-hitter skills are on cd.
Now with your set bonus, rocket punch is cheaper than Magnetic blast/Tactical surge, it has higher damage, applies an armor debuff and has an extra 5% crit chance compared to it. This means that whenever you can use rocket punch, but you use your filler instead, you are doing less damage than you should.

I'm sure you will agree that as a dps/dd your main 'purpose' / your first priority is doing as much damage as possible. So don't be afraid of the NPCs, move into close range, use rocker punch frequently and forget about that 10m gut!

KainrycKarr's Avatar


KainrycKarr
11.14.2017 , 03:36 AM | #10
This is ridiculous.

This whole "take away melee abilities and make it longer ranged" is dumb. If I want to play a ranged class, I'll play merc. The only reason I play PT is because of rocket punch and retractable blade.

Want PT to be melee-ish range, Bioware? Cool, fine with me. It just needs some more defensive tools to survive in that range. That's all. A "leave me alone" button and some stun protection will do that.

My ideas?

For AP? 6% flat DR and increase Sonic missile defense to 50%. This doesn't change a lot - just makes that 6% DR box worth a damn, and makes sonic defense a more dependable tool than a "boy i hope im lucky" ability.

For Pyro? Make Kolto last 2 seconds longer and go up to 50%. Innate 30% AOE DR. Pyro's defense is based around a strengthened kolto (30% DR when in use and a CD reduction on damage taken passive). This plays into what Pyro is already based around.

Shield Tech? Make translocate a mobile 2 second cast. Increase oil slick back to it's original value. Other than that, the spec is already pretty solid both in durability and in damage.

Swap damage values of firestorm with Pyro's buffed searing wave. (Tank should not be cleaving harder than the DPS spec)

Instead of Hitman increasing AOE DR by 30% for the DPS specs, it grants immunity to stuns for the first six seconds of hydraulic overrides for the DPS specs, but tank spec still just gets 30% stun DR. (4 second increase utility does not increase this duration) This makes HO far more useful and valuable as a tool as it makes us less vulnerable to stun lock to compensate for loss of stun DR.

Return "Shield Cannon" to 5% health per missile (current is 3) and return shoulder cannon to 1 second Internal CD (current is 1.5) This isn't a massive change, but makes this utility far more worthy of it's place in the Legendary tier. It also provides a small boost to our single target DPS in pve without making a large difference in PVP and makes the heal a little more solid and fast-acting.

Add some new minor DCD that increases your damage reduction by 20% for 10 seconds. 32% Base DR for DPS specs + 6.4% (32 x .2)= 38%ish total. This isn't a massive DCD, but it does add a little more oomph to our survivability when stuck in 10 meter range by allowing us to maximize the usage of HO and making us a bit beefier when sitting in the range of jugs and maras.

While each individual thing isn't massive on it's own, it all adds up to play into the PT's design philosophy of a highly mobile, 10 meter bruiser by playing into each spec's strength a bit more.
Kain'ryk Karr - Level 60 Powertech<Clan Adenn>