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Plasma / Pyro calculations

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
11.03.2017 , 09:21 AM | #1
I need some help with calculus if you don't mind.

So, if I am using the basic rotation as outlined on dulfy:

OPENER:

Plasmatise -> Inc.Round -> Shock -> HIB -> IP -> Flare -> Wave -> IP -> Shock -> 2x IP -> IR -> IP -> HIB -> Shock -> Recharge + Flare -> Wave -> IP...

this takes up 18 GCDs or 27 seconds. Given that the Energy Regen of Plasma Tech is 6,33 Energy / second(5 / s + 2 every 1,5s), this gives us:

6,33 * 27 = 171 energy

Meanwhile the degen is:

3 * 1,66 (3 Shocks) + 2 * 1 (2 IRs) + 2 * 0,8 (2 Flares) + 2 * 1,11 (2 Waves) + 2 * 1 (2 HIBs) + 4 * 10 (4 IPs)
= 53,3 Energy

Leaving us with 171 - 73,3 = 117 Energy, right?

///

Further, when moving into the main rotation(I'll assume that you rotate IP and Hammer):

Plasma -> Hammer -> IR -> Shock -> HIB -> Hammer -> Flare -> IP -> Wave -> Hammer -> IP -> Hammer -> IR -> Shock -> HIB -> Hammer -> Flare -> IP -> Wave -> Hammer -> Plasma ...

n(GCD): 21 -> 31,5s
Regen: 31,5 * 6,33 = 200 Energy
Degen: 31,64 Energy

///

What I'm trying to ask is "are those calculations correct"? Because if they are, Plasma shouldn't really guzzle as much Resources as it does live. Sure, the added benefit of not guzzling is traded via lower DPS(substitution of IP for Hammer). But, never you mind that...

Are the calculations ok? Also: Does it work differently on Pyro?
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

Makkoo's Avatar


Makkoo
11.07.2017 , 07:32 PM | #2
Quote:
Leaving us with 171 - 73,3 = 117 Energy, right
Should we call in R2-D2 to check your maths?
Daerius
The Harbinger Empire

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
11.07.2017 , 07:41 PM | #3
You forgot that Soldier/Bounty Hunter have a slower regen rate if their ressources go under 60%
That's the actual difficulty. Your maths are right if you stay at the same energy regen rate for the entire rotation, but there is a time where you'll end up under 60%, which is where it will mess up your rotation.
This is the difficulty of AP and Pyro. Keeping a constant dps while staying «in the green».
Eliadil - Darkness Assassin Darth Malgus

Feel free to use my referal link if you liked my help ! Free stuff for you and me !

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
11.11.2017 , 05:31 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
You forgot that Soldier/Bounty Hunter have a slower regen rate if their ressources go under 60%
That's the actual difficulty. Your maths are right if you stay at the same energy regen rate for the entire rotation, but there is a time where you'll end up under 60%, which is where it will mess up your rotation.
This is the difficulty of AP and Pyro. Keeping a constant dps while staying «in the green».
I didn't forget it. I just didn't know how to factor it in(this'd involve math level that I'm not comfortable operating in). So, I simply went for 1 : 1 or 2 : 1 Hammer : Ion rotation.
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
11.12.2017 , 08:24 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
I didn't forget it. I just didn't know how to factor it in(this'd involve math level that I'm not comfortable operating in). So, I simply went for 1 : 1 or 2 : 1 Hammer : Ion rotation.
Make separate calculations for every energy cell level (from high regen rate to low regen rate)
Try the rotation as usual, see how much cycle you need before going under 60% (don't abuse hammer shot though, this reduces your dps by a lot and shouldn't be used that much anyway) then see how much more cycle you need to go under the next level...
This should indicate how much the actual rotation will deplete your energy, at each separate level. The issue with your calculations are that you're using too much hammer shot in order to avoid the energy issue :/
A 1 : 2 ratio would never be used at full energy, because you would lose too much dps imo.
Eliadil - Darkness Assassin Darth Malgus

Feel free to use my referal link if you liked my help ! Free stuff for you and me !

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
11.12.2017 , 09:23 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
Make separate calculations for every energy cell level (from high regen rate to low regen rate)
Try the rotation as usual, see how much cycle you need before going under 60% (don't abuse hammer shot though, this reduces your dps by a lot and shouldn't be used that much anyway) then see how much more cycle you need to go under the next level...
This should indicate how much the actual rotation will deplete your energy, at each separate level. The issue with your calculations are that you're using too much hammer shot in order to avoid the energy issue :/
A 1 : 2 ratio would never be used at full energy, because you would lose too much dps imo.
But if you use too much Ion Pulse, you tank your energy like an anchor.

That's exactly the problem with Plasma / Pyro.
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
11.13.2017 , 05:24 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
But if you use too much Ion Pulse, you tank your energy like an anchor.

That's exactly the problem with Plasma / Pyro.
That's the problem with Tactics/AP as well, spamming magnetic blast is also bad for your energy management. The issue here is that hammer shot is a big decrease in dps, if it wasn't this much there wouldn't be such a problem.
Lowering the heat generated by Tactic Surge/Ion Pulse by 3 or 5 would do the trick tbh, but there wouldn't be a need to follow a rotation at all then
Maybe making it so that Hammer shot vent 1 heat when utilised and 2 when having a crit ? A bit like mercenary healer and his kolto injection ?
Because, again, we can't spam half of our time a hammer shot in order to keep a stable energy management, the impact is too big. :/
Eliadil - Darkness Assassin Darth Malgus

Feel free to use my referal link if you liked my help ! Free stuff for you and me !

egriz's Avatar


egriz
11.13.2017 , 12:10 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post

Plasmatise -> Inc.Round -> Shock -> HIB -> IP -> Flare -> Wave -> IP -> Shock -> 2x IP -> IR -> IP -> HIB -> Shock -> Recharge + Flare -> Wave -> IP...

this takes up 18 GCDs or 27 seconds. Given that the Energy Regen of Plasma Tech is 6,33 Energy / second(5 / s + 2 every 1,5s), this gives us:

6,33 * 27 = 171 energy

Meanwhile the degen is:

3 * 1,66 (3 Shocks) + 2 * 1 (2 IRs) + 2 * 0,8 (2 Flares) + 2 * 1,11 (2 Waves) + 2 * 1 (2 HIBs) + 4 * 10 (4 IPs)
= 53,3 Energy

Leaving us with 171 - 73,3 = 117 Energy, right?
By degen, do you mean the energy consumption?
If yes, then I do not understand this calculation... What are these seemingly random numbers? Also, you missed out the Plasmatize.

The energy consumption should be this:

1 * 10 (Plasmatize) + 3 * 13 (3 Shockstrikes with set bonus) + 2 * 15 (2 IRs) + 2 * 12 (2 Flares) + 2 * 20 (2 Waves) + 2 * 15 (2 HIBs) + 4 * 15 (4 IPs) + 2 * 0 (2 IPs after Flares)
= 233 Energy

so altogether 171 - 233 = -62
-12 with the Recharge cell you used in the rotation. (also assuming you always have 5 energy/sec regeneration)

Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post

Plasma -> Hammer -> IR -> Shock -> HIB -> Hammer -> Flare -> IP -> Wave -> Hammer -> IP -> Hammer -> IR -> Shock -> HIB -> Hammer -> Flare -> IP -> Wave -> Hammer -> Plasma ...

n(GCD): 21 -> 31,5s
Regen: 31,5 * 6,33 = 200 Energy
Degen: 31,64 Energy
Again, how did you get this degen?

2 * 10 (2 Plasmatizes) + 2 * 13 (2 Shockstrikes with set bonus) + 2 * 15 (2 IRs) + 2 * 12 (2 Flares) + 2 * 20 (2 Waves) + 2 * 15 (2 HIBs) + 1 * 15 (IP) + 2 * 0 (2 IPs after Flares) + 6 * 0 (Hammers)
= 185 Energy

200 - 185 = 15