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Good article, it applies to many who post here.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Good article, it applies to many who post here.

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
07.17.2019 , 01:09 PM | #191
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Right now, I have nothing but good things to say regarding BioWare with Keith at the helm. I think it is finally going in the right direction, although I wish they had enough support to provide more content than what is being offered in the expansion, as others have noted.
You know, I quit this game a year and a half ago and I honestly thought this game was lost and would never be turned around. But when I saw that they were making a lot of changes and 6.0 even more, and I mean chances that I had on my list of things that needed to change, I couldn't deny that they did turn things around for a large part. I knew they could but I didn't think they would anymore.

It's a shame it had to come to that but maybe it was good for me to have that break anyway. But yeah, they really did make some significant changes and 6.0 will change some major things for the better as well. I have to be impressed by that turn-around. Fingers crossed they keep it up.
Referral link for some extras: http://www.swtor.com/r/jMVTyB

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
07.17.2019 , 01:38 PM | #192
Ignoring your audience is never a smart play.
Ignoring the idiots, yes.... that very vocal loud mouthed obnoxious humanoid sub species that simply wants everything their way... yeah, ignore them all day.
Those who are making actual points with real feedback... you better listen, or get your resume ready.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
07.17.2019 , 01:42 PM | #193
has anyone linked this article as a counterpoint yet?

https://www.pcgamesn.com/no-mans-sky/problems

or this one https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anth...ong-1833731964

here is an interview with a developer who made some major MAJOR errors, but instead of doubling down on their hubris once the game was out and player feedback started rolling in - took that feedback to heart and got down to the fixing of their game. pay a particular attention to the part where "players are almost always right about the problems"

players are not developers. most of the time. and everyone has their own idea of what would be better and they are more then often - wrong about that, HOWEVER. when players point out a problem? you don't get to just ignore it and claim that they are misunderstanding, that they don't know what's good for them, etc. players are your customer based. its all fun and dandy to make a game YOU want to play and you probably should st least start with that becasue it results in a more genuine gaming experiences, BUT.. you MUST know your audience that is not merely you AND you MUST take them into account when working on development, unless you want your audience to stop being your audience.

and last but not least... its easy to blame the players when instead of figuring out genuine solutions that make your game better, you just go for knee jerk responses to criticism. (incidentally Anthem's issue wasn't just that it was trying to fix the graphical problems with ME andromeda, but rather due to ever changing vision within the development team - making sure that at least the game LOOKS pretty was the ONLY thing they all agreed on and had any time left for. so the author of that article? is completely misconstruing what actualy happened and ignoring most of the context)

incidentally. as of today. not all of my games are digital STILL, I STILL buy physical copies of console games. AND I more often then not - play offline, unless the game i'm playing - requires online connection. which is not often. why? becasue not all of us live in location where infrastructure is top notch, and where bandwith is unlimited.

but anyways. the author of the original article is full of it. I'd wager more games fail because of some executives personal preferences, than player feedback ACTUALLY being genuinely taken into account. not listened to slavishly, but at least taken into account when making changes.

P.S. /rubs temples. WoW. was NEVER. BRUTAL. EVER. it became popular BECAUSE it was super, ridiculously casual friendly and easy to play, especially compared to other MMO's available at the time. moreover, funny story, playerbase started to rapidly dwindle just after release of Cataclysm.... you know expansion when they tried to make the game harder. and had to nerf. over and over, because somehow.. they forgot that bulk of their audience from the very beginning - was casuals.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
07.17.2019 , 05:31 PM | #194
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
has anyone linked this article as a counterpoint yet?

https://www.pcgamesn.com/no-mans-sky/problems

or this one https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anth...ong-1833731964

here is an interview with a developer who made some major MAJOR errors, but instead of doubling down on their hubris once the game was out and player feedback started rolling in - took that feedback to heart and got down to the fixing of their game. pay a particular attention to the part where "players are almost always right about the problems"

players are not developers. most of the time. and everyone has their own idea of what would be better and they are more then often - wrong about that, HOWEVER. when players point out a problem? you don't get to just ignore it and claim that they are misunderstanding, that they don't know what's good for them, etc. players are your customer based. its all fun and dandy to make a game YOU want to play and you probably should st least start with that becasue it results in a more genuine gaming experiences, BUT.. you MUST know your audience that is not merely you AND you MUST take them into account when working on development, unless you want your audience to stop being your audience.

and last but not least... its easy to blame the players when instead of figuring out genuine solutions that make your game better, you just go for knee jerk responses to criticism. (incidentally Anthem's issue wasn't just that it was trying to fix the graphical problems with ME andromeda, but rather due to ever changing vision within the development team - making sure that at least the game LOOKS pretty was the ONLY thing they all agreed on and had any time left for. so the author of that article? is completely misconstruing what actualy happened and ignoring most of the context)

incidentally. as of today. not all of my games are digital STILL, I STILL buy physical copies of console games. AND I more often then not - play offline, unless the game i'm playing - requires online connection. which is not often. why? becasue not all of us live in location where infrastructure is top notch, and where bandwith is unlimited.

but anyways. the author of the original article is full of it. I'd wager more games fail because of some executives personal preferences, than player feedback ACTUALLY being genuinely taken into account. not listened to slavishly, but at least taken into account when making changes.

P.S. /rubs temples. WoW. was NEVER. BRUTAL. EVER. it became popular BECAUSE it was super, ridiculously casual friendly and easy to play, especially compared to other MMO's available at the time. moreover, funny story, playerbase started to rapidly dwindle just after release of Cataclysm.... you know expansion when they tried to make the game harder. and had to nerf. over and over, because somehow.. they forgot that bulk of their audience from the very beginning - was casuals.
Well said !
As for the WoW stuff... even the really long drawn out "hard" raids were only completely ran on a regular basis by 2% of the entire game population.. That didn't help either !!

Good points... good post !
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ZeroTypeR's Avatar


ZeroTypeR
07.17.2019 , 07:13 PM | #195
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
has anyone linked this article as a counterpoint yet?

https://www.pcgamesn.com/no-mans-sky/problems

or this one https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anth...ong-1833731964

here is an interview with a developer who made some major MAJOR errors, but instead of doubling down on their hubris once the game was out and player feedback started rolling in - took that feedback to heart and got down to the fixing of their game. pay a particular attention to the part where "players are almost always right about the problems"

players are not developers. most of the time. and everyone has their own idea of what would be better and they are more then often - wrong about that, HOWEVER. when players point out a problem? you don't get to just ignore it and claim that they are misunderstanding, that they don't know what's good for them, etc. players are your customer based. its all fun and dandy to make a game YOU want to play and you probably should st least start with that becasue it results in a more genuine gaming experiences, BUT.. you MUST know your audience that is not merely you AND you MUST take them into account when working on development, unless you want your audience to stop being your audience.

and last but not least... its easy to blame the players when instead of figuring out genuine solutions that make your game better, you just go for knee jerk responses to criticism. (incidentally Anthem's issue wasn't just that it was trying to fix the graphical problems with ME andromeda, but rather due to ever changing vision within the development team - making sure that at least the game LOOKS pretty was the ONLY thing they all agreed on and had any time left for. so the author of that article? is completely misconstruing what actualy happened and ignoring most of the context)

incidentally. as of today. not all of my games are digital STILL, I STILL buy physical copies of console games. AND I more often then not - play offline, unless the game i'm playing - requires online connection. which is not often. why? becasue not all of us live in location where infrastructure is top notch, and where bandwith is unlimited.

but anyways. the author of the original article is full of it. I'd wager more games fail because of some executives personal preferences, than player feedback ACTUALLY being genuinely taken into account. not listened to slavishly, but at least taken into account when making changes.

P.S. /rubs temples. WoW. was NEVER. BRUTAL. EVER. it became popular BECAUSE it was super, ridiculously casual friendly and easy to play, especially compared to other MMO's available at the time. moreover, funny story, playerbase started to rapidly dwindle just after release of Cataclysm.... you know expansion when they tried to make the game harder. and had to nerf. over and over, because somehow.. they forgot that bulk of their audience from the very beginning - was casuals.
The Crew 2 has also learned a painful lesson: Game came out, they didn't listen to the players who beta tested the game, 6 months later lost most of their player-base (if not sooner), started listening to feedback and has been slowly fixing the game (the game had too many issues to name.

Will the game survive? I don't know, but I returned to the game and have been playing it since, whenever I feel like driving/racing. It needs a lot of work, but at least Ubisoft has been listening to feedback, in recent months.

Then there's Forza Horizon 4: Has barely listened to feedback, started out strong, deletes most of the negative feedback (and there's has been a boat load of it.) to make it seem like the game is doing well (that's how I see it at least); it hasn't been said and there's no proof, but their player numbers are definitely no longer the 10 million that has been claimed. Are they in for a painful lesson? Who knows, but I quickly left that game, and will most likely never return, not that I matter, I'm just one player.

Point? Listen to feedback.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
07.17.2019 , 07:22 PM | #196
Quote: Originally Posted by ZeroTypeR View Post
The Crew 2 has also learned a painful lesson: Game came out, they didn't listen to the players who beta tested the game, 6 months later lost most of their player-base (if not sooner), started listening to feedback and has been slowly fixing the game (the game had too many issues to name.

Will the game survive? I don't know, but I returned to the game and have been playing it since, whenever I feel like driving/racing. It needs a lot of work, but at least Ubisoft has been listening to feedback, in recent months.

Then there's Forza Horizon 4: Has barely listened to feedback, started out strong, deletes most of the negative feedback (and there's has been a boat load of it.) to make it seem like the game is doing well (that's how I see it at least); it hasn't been said and there's no proof, but their player numbers are definitely no longer the 10 million that has been claimed. Are they in for a painful lesson? Who knows, but I quickly left that game, and will most likely never return, not that I matter, I'm just one player.

Point? Listen to feedback.
Agreed...
You can add STO on to that list. I have a LTS ... and still don't long on that often. I was a part of beta ...
1. Most warned them that the game was no where ready before launch .. launched anyways
2. Begged to get bugs fixed ... Ignored that as well (two of the main repeatable missions back then were never fixed and had to be finally phased out !
3. The company went F2P ... then sold it out to someone else.
4. Players BEGGED for someone to pay attention .. but to no avail !

IMO ... STO is effectively dead !
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