Raise the bolster to the highest tier of gear available. That way we will be able to play our alts right off the bat at a competitive level, while also keeping the gearing system A LITTLE relevant, as you still need gold gear for the best bolster.

We in PVP do not care about gear progression, all we want to do is queue for a reg or a ranked match and beat up our fellow imperial enemies and/or friends (because let's be serious, nobody plays rep anymore).

Please make this happen, 5.1 was the worst thing that has ever happened to this game, and it was a bad move to put it up right after 4.0, arguably the sweet spot of SWTOR PVP.

Been saying it for 5 months since they nerfed Bolster back. They don't care or listen.

My solution has been to boycott lvl 70 pvp till they fix it. Soon it will lead to unsubscribing because lower lvl pvp doesn't pop.

Been saying it for 5 months since they nerfed Bolster back. They don't care or listen.

 

My solution has been to boycott lvl 70 pvp till they fix it. Soon it will lead to unsubscribing because lower lvl pvp doesn't pop.

They are afraid that without progression, people will get bored and quit. I hope this new pvp dev makes them realize that we don't play for progression! We've been playing the same 5 maps for 6 years, progression is not there. Don't suddenly reinforce it on us. The reason we play PVP is because we like to q up and have a shot at being competitive, no matter what character we play. This is ridiculous already. I am stuck playing my operative or my mercenary simply because they're the only ones geared. I would very much like to heal, to play mara, to play lethality sniper...

I've got a job where I work really long hours, and a lot of them. I cannot join my guild for at least 5 days of each week to do ops. I mostly do WZ when I can during the week, my off time is at weird hours .

It's absurdly hard to gear like this, I can never catch up no matter how hard I try. It's disheartening in the extreme to keep getting gearstomped by people in full 248. It makes a huge difference frankly, when the have more numbers in every catergory. when they can hit 2-3 times more than I can and take more damage. A geared mara can literally destroy you in seconds, no matter what dcds you press.

It's frustrating and not fun whatsoever.

I miss the old days where you could gear relatively quickly in pvp and have the ability to play alts-even with limited time. Right now this gear disparity caused by the GC system is ridiculous.

Raise the bolster to the highest tier of gear available. That way we will be able to play our alts right off the bat at a competitive level, while also keeping the gearing system A LITTLE relevant, as you still need gold gear for the best bolster.

 

 

We in PVP do not care about gear progression, all we want to do is queue for a reg or a ranked match and beat up our fellow imperial enemies and/or friends (because let's be serious, nobody plays rep anymore).

 

Please make this happen, 5.1 was the worst thing that has ever happened to this game, and it was a bad move to put it up right after 4.0, arguably the sweet spot of SWTOR PVP.

yeah, bolster or at least buff to pvp gearing like i wrote here - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=925161. But if u read some posts in this thread you can notice that pve players aren't fans of pvp gearing buff, since they are damn selfish. I dont know why devs made such stupid situation. We need to write our complains in general discussion where devs are reading sometimes due to their ignorance of pvp section forum

keith stated in the roadmap that their looking into making legacy UC.

Looking into does not make it set in stone however, keith also claimed we would get collection unlock tunings, and that came true.

keith stated in the roadmap that their looking into making legacy UC.

 

Looking into does not make it set in stone however, keith also claimed we would get collection unlock tunings, and that came true.

That does not solve anything considering that UC come at a snail pace. You need a bit over 750 UC to get a tier 3 weapon. Assuming 250 UC a week (which is roughly 7 hours per week), you need three weeks, per toon.

Aint no body go time for dat.

Legacy UC would help a little bit for some people. You could cycle through characters and get the daily and weekly UC, then use them to focus on gearing one character, one piece at a time.

I probably have about 500 UC among 7 toons, but less than 200 on any individual. If those were in a legacy bank, I could get a couple pieces right now. As it is, I can't buy anything that would be an upgrade.

My recollection from the discussions on a stream a while back was that they are considering legacy UC, but they don't 100% like that as a solution and think there might be a better way to go about gearing alts. So they've probably been debating it and tossing around different ideas, which is why it's taking a while and they haven't simply given us legacy UC. Once you introduce something, it's kind of hard to remove it (see Command, Galactic).

If you raise the bolster, it negates gear progression.

Then again, higher bolster makes pvp alt friendly again.

I think making UC legacy is the only middle road we have with the current system. If I could pvp on any toon knowing that I have a pool of UC to pull from for upgrading gear, it would alleviate *some* of the boredom and grind of the current system.

I've got a job where I work really long hours, and a lot of them. I cannot join my guild for at least 5 days of each week to do ops. I mostly do WZ when I can during the week, my off time is at weird hours .

It's absurdly hard to gear like this, I can never catch up no matter how hard I try. It's disheartening in the extreme to keep getting gearstomped by people in full 248. It makes a huge difference frankly, when the have more numbers in every catergory. when they can hit 2-3 times more than I can and take more damage. A geared mara can literally destroy you in seconds, no matter what dcds you press.

It's frustrating and not fun whatsoever.

 

I miss the old days where you could gear relatively quickly in pvp and have the ability to play alts-even with limited time. Right now this gear disparity caused by the GC system is ridiculous.

Agree completely. I recently returned to the game and the gearing path in front of me is beyond daunting. I'm contemplating whether or not I even want to try. I, like you, simply work too much to properly gear. When I left the game a few years ago Bioware was encouraging us all to create alts. Now we're basically stuck playing only one or two of our characters because the gearing process is so burdensome. It makes the game less fun, less spontaneous, and way more of a chore. No wonder why so many servers are dead and warzone queue times take way longer now than they did when I left. I don't mind some gear progression, but this new system borders on the absurd.

Im gona take the oposit side here.

First of all i do both pvp and pve.

The time it took me to get ful 248 was redicules fast. Now im siting on DD all248, tank 246+ and skank 246+.

This game is not pve or pvp only and that meens no one gets the fastest road. If you only do one side of the game you will take your time to get max ger.

Secondly

Skill is bigger than ger in pvp.

The number of skilled players are low and therefor ger has more inpact.

The choise off class also has a inpact. Then yet again a skilled player can run any class.

So to sum it up here for me who do both side of the game.

For me im copetetive now in both side and newer has it gone so fast.

They are afraid that without progression, people will get bored and quit. I hope this new pvp dev makes them realize that we don't play for progression! We've been playing the same 5 maps for 6 years, progression is not there. Don't suddenly reinforce it on us. The reason we play PVP is because we like to q up and have a shot at being competitive, no matter what character we play. This is ridiculous already. I am stuck playing my operative or my mercenary simply because they're the only ones geared. I would very much like to heal, to play mara, to play lethality sniper...

Well put.

We pvp to pvp.. not to gear.. we won't pvp less because there is no gear grind.. infact the opposite is true... we will pvp more when we are enjoying pvp that is skill vs skill and not gear vs gear.

Yes, set bolster to 250 rating and people will surely find it fun to PVP forever with same maps etc. Soon they will say its boring, no target, nothing to do.

Now people have to grind gear, like its common in MMOs, so i dont get you ppl. If you have alts, well craft, buy crafted gear, its 246 rating!! They cannot make it easier than that!

They can, and they already did it in last expansion.

But i dont understand all y pve players who says anything against changes for pvp gearing, arent it meaningless for y? only difference possible is y gonna gear even faster? OR maybe having gear better than others, is the only thing that really makes y feel better about this game?

They can, and they already did it in last expansion.

But i dont understand all y pve players who says anything against changes for pvp gearing, arent it meaningless for y? only difference possible is y gonna gear even faster? OR maybe having gear better than others, is the only thing that really makes y feel better about this game?

There's a little bit of truth to that last part. Some PvE'ers are wary of PvP and need a bit of help in the form of gear advantage to get their starting confidence.

I also feel like the game wants to encourage PvP'ers into PvE. And with bolster at max gear there would be significantly less incentive for PvP'ers to try out other content.

Discussions on this are getting rediculous. Gear progression kills PvP. This is very bad. The way to make PvPers stay and to gain more is to take gear out of the equation and let players play their alts again. This is extremely important. Most players that PvP like to do it with more than one class. Well, that died with 5.0. Myself for example used to play 4 classes PvP. So with 5.0 PvP is about 1/4 the fun? Then you add in the unbearably long boring grind just to get BiS so I can play at an even level, nope. Then when I grind my way all the way up, I'll be some 8v8's where my team has an average gear closer to the bolster and the enemy team has average gear closer to max and the whole problem still exists. So even after that entire waste of time gearing still my team gets face-rolled? Then because the system encourages players who do not care about PvP (or wins) to roll just to finish the weeklies forcing the average skill level in each game to an all time low. The net result of 5.0 for PvPers is: Now you have more ability to do OPS when you want to, but your main game has been utterly destroyed.

If the goal was to give PvPers a reason to keep playing, they failed horribly. For PvEers a gear grind works fine, for PvPers it actually makes the overall player base play LESS, and leave permanently. It is the death of PvP.

The best fix is of course change bolster to 250. Problem solved. PvPers will still grind gear for 1.) so they can do PvE when they want, and 2.) Its fun collecting things, even if they are not needed for PvP.

If they just cannot admit that bolster at 250 is the fix, you can get part of the way to a fix by doing ALL of the following:

1.) Command level legacy wide. If your main is 300, so are ALL of your alts.

2.) Unassembled parts legacy wide.

3.) Able to earn unassembled parts at ALL character levels.

4.) Able to switch any character to the other specs. Another words you can switch your lightning sorc to healing sorc with all gear set bonuses with the press of a button. (even if it costs 1M credits).

5.) Massively increase the rate at which 248's pop in crates, or massively increase the unassembled parts from PvP weekly.

If they simply will not do #1 then you need:

A.) Make all tiered gear legacy bound, not character bound. This includes mods/enhance/armoring.

B.) DRAMATICALLY reduce the costs to remove mod/enhance/armoring from gear.

We are a long way from saving PvP. The problem is, it may look on the suits reports that PvP is good because numbers and participation are highly inflated due to non-pvpers finishing the daily/weekly just for components. But what happens when you remove those numbers from the reports? Because that is what will happen once they do not need to gear anymore.

I have alts and a job, I have never had or wanted full BiS PvE gear and never will. I did have BiS Expertise gear, almost every season.

I've ground 600+ command levels, on many different toons.

With the current system I am a permanent second class citizen.

Bring back Expertise or Bolster = BiS.

This is the worst possible case, rewarding raiders with a advantage in PvP.

If the goal was to give PvPers a reason to keep playing, they failed horribly. For PvEers a gear grind works fine, for PvPers it actually makes the overall player base play LESS, and leave permanently. It is the death of PvP.

 

The best fix is of course change bolster to 250. Problem solved. PvPers will still grind gear for 1.) so they can do PvE when they want, and 2.) Its fun collecting things, even if they are not needed for PvP.

 

Agreed. I have ~70 days left on my sub and will re-sub if BW does this. Kinda on the fence ATM.

If you raise the bolster, it negates gear progression.

 

Then again, higher bolster makes pvp alt friendly again.

 

I think making UC legacy is the only middle road we have with the current system. If I could pvp on any toon knowing that I have a pool of UC to pull from for upgrading gear, it would alleviate *some* of the boredom and grind of the current system.

Thing is that nobody gives a flying fück about gear progression IN PVP! We want to queue up and fight other players, not "progress" with gear.

Let me put it this way: when are you having the most fun IN PVP? While you are "progressing" or once you reach BiS and start to be competitive and be able to compete with other people? I think we both know the answer to that.

Bolster to the highest available PvE gear. Not lower, not higher. That way PvErs would have NOTHING to complain about, while we would be able to enjoy the same PVP we enjoyed for 5 years.

Discussions on this are getting rediculous. Gear progression kills PvP. This is very bad. The way to make PvPers stay and to gain more is to take gear out of the equation and let players play their alts again. This is extremely important. Most players that PvP like to do it with more than one class. Well, that died with 5.0. Myself for example used to play 4 classes PvP. So with 5.0 PvP is about 1/4 the fun? Then you add in the unbearably long boring grind just to get BiS so I can play at an even level, nope. Then when I grind my way all the way up, I'll be some 8v8's where my team has an average gear closer to the bolster and the enemy team has average gear closer to max and the whole problem still exists. So even after that entire waste of time gearing still my team gets face-rolled? Then because the system encourages players who do not care about PvP (or wins) to roll just to finish the weeklies forcing the average skill level in each game to an all time low. The net result of 5.0 for PvPers is: Now you have more ability to do OPS when you want to, but your main game has been utterly destroyed.

 

If the goal was to give PvPers a reason to keep playing, they failed horribly. For PvEers a gear grind works fine, for PvPers it actually makes the overall player base play LESS, and leave permanently. It is the death of PvP.

 

The best fix is of course change bolster to 250. Problem solved. PvPers will still grind gear for 1.) so they can do PvE when they want, and 2.) Its fun collecting things, even if they are not needed for PvP.

 

If they just cannot admit that bolster at 250 is the fix, you can get part of the way to a fix by doing ALL of the following:

1.) Command level legacy wide. If your main is 300, so are ALL of your alts.

2.) Unassembled parts legacy wide.

3.) Able to earn unassembled parts at ALL character levels.

4.) Able to switch any character to the other specs. Another words you can switch your lightning sorc to healing sorc with all gear set bonuses with the press of a button. (even if it costs 1M credits).

5.) Massively increase the rate at which 248's pop in crates, or massively increase the unassembled parts from PvP weekly.

 

If they simply will not do #1 then you need:

A.) Make all tiered gear legacy bound, not character bound. This includes mods/enhance/armoring.

B.) DRAMATICALLY reduce the costs to remove mod/enhance/armoring from gear.

 

We are a long way from saving PvP. The problem is, it may look on the suits reports that PvP is good because numbers and participation are highly inflated due to non-pvpers finishing the daily/weekly just for components. But what happens when you remove those numbers from the reports? Because that is what will happen once they do not need to gear anymore.

Well said.

Also, to all those opposing to "free pvp gear", ARE YOU DENSE? You do realize that literally one patch ago one could gear an alt in seconds from reaching max level, and NOBODY complained. Stop being so damn selfish and think with your brain instead of your ego or lack of skill for once. 250/248 Bolster doesn't affect ANY PVE PLAYERS, while making it fun for us pvpers to play.

Discussions on this are getting rediculous. Gear progression kills PvP. This is very bad. The way to make PvPers stay and to gain more is to take gear out of the equation and let players play their alts again. This is extremely important. Most players that PvP like to do it with more than one class. Well, that died with 5.0. Myself for example used to play 4 classes PvP. So with 5.0 PvP is about 1/4 the fun? Then you add in the unbearably long boring grind just to get BiS so I can play at an even level, nope. Then when I grind my way all the way up, I'll be some 8v8's where my team has an average gear closer to the bolster and the enemy team has average gear closer to max and the whole problem still exists. So even after that entire waste of time gearing still my team gets face-rolled? Then because the system encourages players who do not care about PvP (or wins) to roll just to finish the weeklies forcing the average skill level in each game to an all time low. The net result of 5.0 for PvPers is: Now you have more ability to do OPS when you want to, but your main game has been utterly destroyed.

 

If the goal was to give PvPers a reason to keep playing, they failed horribly. For PvEers a gear grind works fine, for PvPers it actually makes the overall player base play LESS, and leave permanently. It is the death of PvP.

 

The best fix is of course change bolster to 250. Problem solved. PvPers will still grind gear for 1.) so they can do PvE when they want, and 2.) Its fun collecting things, even if they are not needed for PvP.

 

If they just cannot admit that bolster at 250 is the fix, you can get part of the way to a fix by doing ALL of the following:

1.) Command level legacy wide. If your main is 300, so are ALL of your alts.

2.) Unassembled parts legacy wide.

3.) Able to earn unassembled parts at ALL character levels.

4.) Able to switch any character to the other specs. Another words you can switch your lightning sorc to healing sorc with all gear set bonuses with the press of a button. (even if it costs 1M credits).

5.) Massively increase the rate at which 248's pop in crates, or massively increase the unassembled parts from PvP weekly.

 

If they simply will not do #1 then you need:

A.) Make all tiered gear legacy bound, not character bound. This includes mods/enhance/armoring.

B.) DRAMATICALLY reduce the costs to remove mod/enhance/armoring from gear.

 

We are a long way from saving PvP. The problem is, it may look on the suits reports that PvP is good because numbers and participation are highly inflated due to non-pvpers finishing the daily/weekly just for components. But what happens when you remove those numbers from the reports? Because that is what will happen once they do not need to gear anymore.

If they raised the bolster to 250 and thus made gear a non issue. PVP should no longer offer UCs as a way of getting BIS gear. Like before 5.0 BIS was for PVE, people in PVP want only skill vs skill and no gear gap. If there can be no gear gap that makes BIS irrelivant for PVP and therefore if PVPers want BIS gear they should have to earn it in Operations. Leaving UCs/PVP as a method of getting BIS gear would be unfair to raiders.

If they raised the bolster to 250 and thus made gear a non issue. PVP should no longer offer UCs as a way of getting BIS gear. Like before 5.0 BIS was for PVE, people in PVP want only skill vs skill and no gear gap. If there can be no gear gap that makes BIS irrelivant for PVP and therefore if PVPers want BIS gear they should have to earn it in Operations. Leaving UCs/PVP as a method of getting BIS gear would be unfair to raiders.

Fine by me. So you're saying it should be the same as it was in 4.0 when 208 gear was technically useless for raiding anyway therefore you had to grind for gear in PvE?

Fine by me. So you're saying it should be the same as it was in 4.0 when 208 gear was technically useless for raiding anyway therefore you had to grind for gear in PvE?

Yes, I am saying that if they up the Bolster to 250 in PVP, like they had done during 5.0-5.1, everyone was essentially effectively in BIS gear stat wise [a bit better actually] and everyone was fine with that. Gear was irrelivant. So if you do not need BIS gear for PVP because of bolster, it's no long necessary for people to obtain BIS gear for PVP because it won't do anything for you anyway. People in PVE, who wouldn't be getting bolstered to BIS level stats would still require BIS gear for optimal performance in PVE, so why should PVP offer gear that isn't even being used in PVP anymore?

BIS gear was always the province of Progression raiders prior to 5.0, if PVPers can't gain any benefit it from it in PVP than it should return to be the provinve of raiders. If you do both PVP and PVE, than you'd need to get BIS gear from Raiding, just like prior to 5.0.

Although, to be honest, I don't suppose it would really hurt if they still allowed UCs to be able to upgrade token drops from Raiding. It might be good for PVP in that regard because people who are into both, like myself, would still have some purpose in PVPing so it might keep the wzs with more people in them they might otherwise have.

PVP doesn't have the same kind of player base PVE does so it'd be good to keep as many people as possible in WZs from a Quece time perspective.

Yes, I am saying that if they up the Bolster to 250 in PVP, like they had done during 5.0-5.1, everyone was essentially effectively in BIS gear stat wise [a bit better actually] and everyone was fine with that. Gear was irrelivant. So if you do not need BIS gear for PVP because of bolster, it's no long necessary for people to obtain BIS gear for PVP because it won't do anything for you anyway. People in PVE, who wouldn't be getting bolstered to BIS level stats would still require BIS gear for optimal performance in PVE, so why should PVP offer gear that isn't even being used in PVP anymore?

 

BIS gear was always the province of Progression raiders prior to 5.0, if PVPers can't gain any benefit it from it in PVP than it should return to be the provinve of raiders. If you do both PVP and PVE, than you'd need to get BIS gear from Raiding, just like prior to 5.0.

 

Although, to be honest, I don't suppose it would really hurt if they still allowed UCs to be able to upgrade token drops from Raiding. It might be good for PVP in that regard because people who are into both, like myself, would still have some purpose in PVPing so it might keep the wzs with more people in them they might otherwise have.

PVP doesn't have the same kind of player base PVE does so it'd be good to keep as many people as possible in WZs from a Quece time perspective.

I like this idea. Players who mostly PvP would then have the option of slowly earning gear towards PvE while it wouldnt be mandatory to have gear for PvP - just like PvE players would have their gear and it wouldn't be mandatory for them to gear for PvP separately because of bolster.

I don't see ANYTHING wrong with bolster nullifying pvp gear at this point. They shouldn't be afraid that no gear progression burns us out, we were playing the same maps with BiS gear since 2.0, up until now when BiS gear is actually close to impossible to get for us that actually have lives...

Well said.

 

 

Also, to all those opposing to "free pvp gear", ARE YOU DENSE? You do realize that literally one patch ago one could gear an alt in seconds from reaching max level, and NOBODY complained. Stop being so damn selfish and think with your brain instead of your ego or lack of skill for once. 250/248 Bolster doesn't affect ANY PVE PLAYERS, while making it fun for us pvpers to play.

Just because PvPers don't want to PvE to have fun doesn't mean the opposite is correct. The reason they changed everything was to give PvEers and PvPers the opportunity to enjoy both sides of the game, not just one. If you choose (and if IS your choice to only PvP) to work half as hard, you should expect to take twice the time to acquire a full set.