As a side note, this topic has now passed half a million views over its six incarnations. Not necessarily germane, but I've been keeping track. I blame early exposure to a vampire puppet on a children's public television program.

 

I will say on a positive note, while there hasn't been any significant news on this particular topic lately, it does seem like the devs are coming out a lot more lately and communicating, doing interviews, posting on the forums, doing the live Q&A thing. Their focus seems to be mostly on 1.4 and Free to Play at the moment, so maybe once that all comes to pass, we'll start hearing more about Makeb.

I'm on The Shadowlands now, PvE NA server. I haven't been playing quite as much on my 50 jugg(renamed to Natashina after the merge,) but look for the Legacy name Starsyn and really weird hours. At this point you'll probably find me on either K'ain(Commando) or Tynesa(Sniper.)

 

I have thought about rolling up a toon on your server for fun.

 

I'm an old-school D&D nerd, so I love a good rp session as well. I started when I was 8 and I'm turning 33 this weekend, so you can tell how much passion I have for it. That's part of the reason why I'm looking forward to SGRs so much. It can really open some cool opportunities for roleplay.

 

Happy Birthday!!! *\o/*

I will say on a positive note, while there hasn't been any significant news on this particular topic lately, it does seem like the devs are coming out a lot more lately and communicating, doing interviews, posting on the forums, doing the live Q&A thing. Their focus seems to be mostly on 1.4 and Free to Play at the moment, so maybe once that all comes to pass, we'll start hearing more about Makeb.

 

Well, we were cautioned in March that we would not receive much if any news on this front until it was closer to release, and that is a point that Stephen Reid made as well, that it was highly unusual to talk about content that far ahead. So yes, if it does come with Makeb, I imagine we'll get news when they start to talk about 1.5.

 

But there are questions that have been pending here since January, that people have asked in order to know how best to play in order to assure they don't accidentally lock themselves out of this content. I am virtually certain that people have let their subscriptions lapse and have shelved SWTOR until this content comes because there is so little information available. And if, as Gabe's little aside indicates, this is coming by the end of the year, then they have answers to these questions that they could provide if the choose to.

 

How this content was delayed from inclusion at launch can best be described by a word rhyming with duckup. It might help if, in spite of it being some ways down the track, they could begin to discuss it anyway.

Personally, one of my biggest motivations for trying to get SGRs out is because of the current state of the gaming community as a whole. Whether the genre is FPS, MMO or even RTS, hate speech is accepted and even encouraged by the gaming community to an extent. I'm not saying that everyone that uses those terms is hateful or homophobic, but it sure doesn't help.

 

One company did it at one of their major events, albeit on accident(the only word I will say if you are curious is Corpsegrinder, who is not homophobic.) They just didn't think it through since the speech is so accepted. The level of apathy from some companies is palable and has done a lot of harm to many gamers. The community has gotten so toxic that some gamers are offended by content that really doesn't effect them and will attack anyone that supports it. While using the aforementioned hate speech, no less.

 

Most major gaming companies seldom address any LGBT content, if at all. EA/BW has the chance to show the world that not all gamers are alike and that this content should be out there in a MMO format. There is some potential to do some real good for the gaming community, and while I don't expect miracles, content like this can help change some of the really homophobic attitudes down the line.

 

That being said, I'm really disgusted at how swept under the rug this had seemed to become(especially prior to Gabe's comment.) By the devs, marketing reps, and/or PR staying silent on this issue for over 6 months, it helps allow this disgusting behavior to go on. If EA doesn't step up soon and share at least a few details with the playerbase(and by proxy, the world as well), it seems to reinforce the narrow minded behavior that is rampant in the gaming community. Being too cautious and ill prepared for PR fallout in this case worked for me....in January. It's now the 2nd to last day of summer, and the excuse is running thin. The only way to get SGRA content accepted by the gaming community is to stop treating it like taboo, like it's something a company has to be ashamed of.

 

It's hard for me to see something that could be so beneficial be all but ignored by a company like BioWare. Yet, here I am. As a gamer, as ToR player and as a person, I'm not going to just sit back and take it the patronizing silence. I'll continue to help push for this, and I'm going to try to stay positive while I do it. Only by keeping my voice out there will I be able to effect any change.

Edited September 21, 2012 by natashina

I can see your point, but by and large I think it is only a matter of time before the gamer crowd - or that portion of it that is loudly and offensively insecure in its sexual identity - comes around. I do think positive portrayals in games matter as much as in any popular media, but this honestly isn't a social crusade for me here so much as a matter of being able to enjoy the game.

 

That's what it comes down to, for me. A game is for fun. I don't want to end up disgruntled by the omission of any same-gender options while being beaten over the head with opposite-gender stuff. When a studio that ought to know better – that has done better – just fails to take it into account, that's disappointing. I can excuse the poorly thought out decision to omit it at launch. But really, they need to admit the mistake and express some regret for the impression conveyed by the game they launched, the game I am paying to play.

 

It's hard for me to see something that could be so beneficial be all but ignored by a company like BioWare. Yet, here I am. As a gamer, as ToR player and as a person, I'm not going to just sit back and take it the patronizing silence. I'll continue to help push for this, and I'm going to try to stay positive while I do it. Only by keeping my voice out there will I be able to effect any change.

 

I have a hard time staying positive, but darn tootin' I am not going to shut up about this. I will even continue to ask awkward questions, to provoke discussion and do what I can within the rules of conduct to keep things riled up. I feel a little guilty about pressure on the Community Team. But I also feel without that, the chances of our concerns being conveyed in the right direction are minimal, and our chances of a substantive reply nonexistant.

 

They can say they are aware all they like. But until we see some actual evidence to back that up, no, I see no reason to let this go.

I can see your point, but by and large I think it is only a matter of time before the gamer crowd - or that portion of it that is loudly and offensively insecure in its sexual identity - comes around. I do think positive portrayals in games matter as much as in any popular media, but this honestly isn't a social crusade for me here so much as a matter of being able to enjoy the game.

 

That's what it comes down to, for me. A game is for fun. I don't want to end up disgruntled by the omission of any same-gender options while being beaten over the head with opposite-gender stuff. When a studio that ought to know better – that has done better – just fails to take it into account, that's disappointing. I can excuse the poorly thought out decision to omit it at launch. But really, they need to admit the mistake and express some regret for the impression conveyed by the game they launched, the game I am paying to play.

 

 

While I agree that it's only a matter of time, content like what they are offering in ToR would help make that change. Like I said, that's one of the reasons why I support this content so much.

 

If I didn't enjoy this game, and it's story/rp options, I don't think I'd care as much. If I felt it was an inferior product to begin with, then I'd see it all as a waste of my time. As it stands, not only do I think this is a well done game, but its a company that has shown prescient for this content before. They have done better and they should do better for this game. Also, as a member of the LGBT community, I'd like to the chance to play a little more as myself. I know I'm far from alone on that sentiment.

 

Plus some of the OGR content is pretty over-the-top. For example, my husband and I were leveling our Pub toons, his being Commando and my toon being a Guardian. We finally got to meet Doc, and my husband just rolled his eyes at Doc's attempts to hit on Kira. He even commented Doc seemed sleazy, then shot me a pretty incredulous look when I told him that Doc was the female JK interest. That companion was the biggest reason why my JK is male. Doc seemed like an exaggerated stereotype of a flirty straight guy and I wasn't thrilled with the result.

 

 

Edit: In order to romance the companion I liked, I had to roll male. That still rather chaps my hide as a player.

Edited September 21, 2012 by natashina

I feel a little guilty about pressure on the Community Team. But I also feel without that, the chances of our concerns being conveyed in the right direction are minimal, and our chances of a substantive reply nonexistant.

 

They can say they are aware all they like. But until we see some actual evidence to back that up, no, I see no reason to let this go.

 

Unfortunately the Community Team are our only way of being able to contact anyone in Bioware, so the number of requests for information we and others make through a single channel is going to feel like pressure. The new LiveStream Q&A is coming out soon-ish, but it seems that everyone expects it to be a re-hash of the old one, so we are still going to have to lean on the Community Team to get some, if any, information.

 

They say they're reading this thread, but I don't think they're actually paying attention to what we're saying. There's a large gap between reading and understanding and I feel that Bioware have yet to demonstrate that they are aware of that difference.

Personally, one of my biggest motivations for trying to get SGRs out is because of the current state of the gaming community as a whole. Whether the genre is FPS, MMO or even RTS, hate speech is accepted and even encouraged by the gaming community to an extent. I'm not saying that everyone that uses those terms is hateful or homophobic, but it sure doesn't help.

 

One company did it at one of their major events, albeit on accident(the only word I will say if you are curious is Corpsegrinder, who is not homophobic.) They just didn't think it through since the speech is so accepted. The level of apathy from some companies is palable and has done a lot of harm to many gamers. The community has gotten so toxic that some gamers are offended by content that really doesn't effect them and will attack anyone that supports it. While using the aforementioned hate speech, no less.

 

Most major gaming companies seldom address any LGBT content, if at all. EA/BW has the chance to show the world that not all gamers are alike and that this content should be out there in a MMO format. There is some potential to do some real good for the gaming community, and while I don't expect miracles, content like this can help change some of the really homophobic attitudes down the line.

 

That being said, I'm really disgusted at how swept under the rug this had seemed to become(especially prior to Gabe's comment.) By the devs, marketing reps, and/or PR staying silent on this issue for over 6 months, it helps allow this disgusting behavior to go on. If EA doesn't step up soon and share at least a few details with the playerbase(and by proxy, the world as well), it seems to reinforce the narrow minded behavior that is rampant in the gaming community. Being too cautious and ill prepared for PR fallout in this case worked for me....in January. It's now the 2nd to last day of summer, and the excuse is running thin. The only way to get SGRA content accepted by the gaming community is to stop treating it like taboo, like it's something a company has to be ashamed of.

 

It's hard for me to see something that could be so beneficial be all but ignored by a company like BioWare. Yet, here I am. As a gamer, as ToR player and as a person, I'm not going to just sit back and take it the patronizing silence. I'll continue to help push for this, and I'm going to try to stay positive while I do it. Only by keeping my voice out there will I be able to effect any change.

 

I couldn't agree more

Personally, one of my biggest motivations for trying to get SGRs out is because of the current state of the gaming community as a whole. Whether the genre is FPS, MMO or even RTS, hate speech is accepted and even encouraged by the gaming community to an extent. I'm not saying that everyone that uses those terms is hateful or homophobic, but it sure doesn't help.

 

One company did it at one of their major events, albeit on accident(the only word I will say if you are curious is Corpsegrinder, who is not homophobic.) They just didn't think it through since the speech is so accepted. The level of apathy from some companies is palable and has done a lot of harm to many gamers. The community has gotten so toxic that some gamers are offended by content that really doesn't effect them and will attack anyone that supports it. While using the aforementioned hate speech, no less.

 

Most major gaming companies seldom address any LGBT content, if at all. EA/BW has the chance to show the world that not all gamers are alike and that this content should be out there in a MMO format. There is some potential to do some real good for the gaming community, and while I don't expect miracles, content like this can help change some of the really homophobic attitudes down the line.

 

The truly depressing thing about that incident was that those who complained about it were labelled as oversensitive and whiny. The company did apologise, but they seemed utterly bewildered by the outcry, as though they genuinely couldn't understand what was wrong. That is how bad it has become.

 

That, to me, illustrates the importance for this sort of content in SWTOR. I don't see anything of the kind ever being introduced in a certain other MMO, run by a company that seems to have given up punishing players for obnoxious behaviour. It seems that in recent years games companies have been reluctant to challenge the sort of gamer who thinks they have an inalienable right to spew bigoted nonsense, out of some misguided notion that it's just what gamers do and it might drive away customers. That's rubbish. It just drives away the well-behaved players and the grown-ups. I'm not a thin-skinned kind of guy, but the attitude of a lot of MMO players these days stinks and I'm sick of it.

I will say that the one thing I am NOT looking forward to will be the flood of people spamming general chat about how ToR is ruined, going down the drain, hemmoraging players etc. Granted, we get them any time ANY change is made to the game, but it still gets on my nerves.

 

That being said, that's not even close to enough to make me want this not to happen! Let's get some SGR going on so my Smuggler can actually have some romance in her life! (corso sucks)

Happy Birthday!!! *\o/*

 

Thanks!

I will say that the one thing I am NOT looking forward to will be the flood of people spamming general chat about how ToR is ruined, going down the drain, hemmoraging players etc. Granted, we get them any time ANY change is made to the game, but it still gets on my nerves.

 

The Imperial Insignia is two shades lighter in patch 1.4 than in 1.3! Bioware doesn't care about players and lore! *whinge whinge whinge*

 

It is pretty pathetic that the amount of complaining on this forum undermines the genuine concerns that get raised. We can expect to see the whining and general ************ over SGRA's for about a week, week and a half maybe, after they drop on the PTS, but by the time they hit live I'm sure most people who are oh-so-sensitive! and insecure about the subject will have either left the game or built that bridge I mentioned a while back. The whinge-fests cycle in and out of vogue faster than celebrity diets. While the game might become a toxic cesspool of bigotry and homophobia, it will hopefully burn itself out fairly quickly.

 

Maybe the Community Team is so quiet lately because they're training new mods for the up-coming onslaught? That would be nice. Unlikely, but nice.

Yup, despite the smoothest server merger I've ever seen (not a single lost character or item), we've got that going on almost every single planet's general chat right now. My own guildmaster threw a massive fit because he had to change the guild name from The Night Watch to The Knight Watch..........end of the world right? But I'm getting off topic ^^;

To be fair, The Knight Watch sounds like a modern comedy troupe trying to do a Monty Python sketch without realising why it's funny :x

 

Really, the first thing I thought of was The Knights Who Say Ni.

 

People are so used to complaining about things in this game that they're looking for things to complain about - I'm sure most of the people whining over the name changes have completely forgotten the first bout of transfers when people were asking for characters of greater longevity to be given priority of naming (which is exactly what Bioware have done this time round).

 

But really, Bioware need to start being open and honest about SGRA's so that when the fabled day does come, people aren't suprised by: Suddenly, GAYS!

The new LiveStream Q&A is coming out soon-ish, but it seems that everyone expects it to be a re-hash of the old one, so we are still going to have to lean on the Community Team to get some, if any, information.

 

They say they're reading this thread, but I don't think they're actually paying attention to what we're saying.

 

Tatile, I understand how it seems that way, but I really think it is more a matter of what the Comm Team are permitted to address. But they can (and do) speak about the best ways to get answers. Maybe I am reading way too much between the lines, but consider this today from Joveth, in the LiveStream 1.4 Q&A thread (emphasis added):

 

This livestream Q&A's specific goal is to talk specifically about Game Update 1.4 and the new Free-to-Play option coming out later this Fall. Have any other questions? Ask them in the forums and if they are well-constructed questions, your chances of being answered by our developers will increase substantially. Keep in mind that there is always a limit as to what can be discussed, so we won't be able to answer every single question.

 

"If they are well-constructed questions" sounds to me to be an invitation to help them find things they can tell us if asked. We've made a fair guess that specifically SGR-related information is on lockdown, so it seems that what is advised is to ask questions phrased otherwise which can be responded to, from which we can glean information. I don't suggest we take this to the 1.4 LiveStream thread, because we know story content is not a 1.4 feature.

 

Piecing together what hints and info we havr, then, I think we are apt to learn more by asking about new story content or expanded companion stories, regarding content coming with Makeb.

 

Maybe I am reading too much into it, I can't say. But it probably couldn't hurt to approach the questions from additional directions.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Uluain

Tatile, I understand how it seems that way, but I really think it is more a matter of what the Comm Team are permitted to address. But they can (and do) speak about the best ways to get answers.

 

I know, I'm being bitter again. The gag order is seeming more and more likely, as there is no way that a professional public relations team could be this clueless.

 

Also I'm no good at phrasing, so I vote for Uluain to continue to be the face of this thread.

The face of this thread? They'll nuke it from orbit!

 

I am just a trouble-maker who can't shut up. But I will continue to do what I can, as politely as I can manage of course. I don't think we should totally abandon SGR-specific questions here, by the way. We do still want those answered and we do still need to keep specifically SGR-related concerns visible so that they can at least be considered, if not answered. I have five of these that seem to have recurred, some more recent than others. So pardon the repetition but I am going to lay them out again. If there is a biggie I have overlooked, speak up:

 

 

• Are we still on track to see same-gender romantic content in game this year?
  
• Will any current companions be available for same-gender romance? If so, which?
  
• If current companions are made avaialble, will the new romantic content be available to players who have already completed existing story content with their companions without needing to roll a new character?
  
• Will same-gender content require and additional purchase, such as a legacy unlock, in-game credit expense or real-world currency through the Cartel shop?
  
• Will we ever see same-gender content beyond companion characters as [Flirt] prompts with various world or class story mission NPCs, such as currently exist as opposite-gender options?
  

 

With the exception of the first, which is asking for re-confirmation of an answer we received in March, the rest of these questions have never been addressed. The second and third are probably the oldest outstanding questions in this thread. I keep feeling there are points I have overlooked, however, but that's the summary of what we don't know that I have come up with.

 

I'll see what I can think of to ask about Makeb and story updates and look for good places to ask them, as well.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Uluain

Also I'm no good at phrasing, so I vote for Uluain to continue to be the face of this thread.

 

With respect to Uluain (because he has done far more for this thread and this subject than most people will ever know), I don't particularly want a single face for the thread. One person can say lots of things about how many people want this or that. One person could say, 'Oh, we have two hundred people clamouring for this,' or 'We have two thousand clamouring for that,' and it might only be three - or that one person.

 

Think back to David Gaider's comments to the notorious (and moronic) Straight Male Gamer when DA was being attacked for same-sex content. He outright said that one person doesn't speak for many, and a person's position on the matter is made substantially less compelling if they try to speak for many.

 

No, I think we should all be the faces of the thread. They need to see us posting, conversing and even arguing about this subject or it's really just one person saying 'I know a lot of people who...'.

No, I think we should all be the faces of the thread. They need to see us posting, conversing and even arguing about this subject or it's really just one person saying 'I know a lot of people who...'.

 

Exactly. I know what I think of it. I know what my sister (who has played since open beta, but who dislikes forums) thinks of it because it is something we talk about (for the record, my sister is a straight, married mother of three who is deeply involved in her church, and hopes Mako will be available for SGR because she's sweet, and would make a lot of sense as a girlfriend of my sister's female LS bounty hunter – just to show you cannot generalize about who is likely to support or oppose SGRs).

 

Yes, this is the issue that's my hobby-horse. I do post about other things, but no other issue as directly affects my enjoyment of the game. Obviously, others care too for their own reasons. And the more different people, with the more different reasons, the stronger the case for SGR becomes.

 

This thread has not had over half a million views from people wanting to hear me yap. There is a lot of interest out there. We need many voices, many faces. Not one.

This thread has not had over half a million views from people wanting to hear me yap. There is a lot of interest out there. We need many voices, many faces. Not one.

 

'My name is Legion, for we are many.'

I just wanted to say Uluain, you are an amazing person. Your diligence and dedication to SGRs really has helped us get a least some answers that we need. There needs to be more people like you. And your sister sounds like a wonderful person.

 

Thanks for everything you do, and here's to hoping we find out more by Halloween.

 

Also, if anyone wants me to add to the FAQ, please let me know. I've got Uluain's list on there, but I was wondering if I should add anything else?

Hi,

 

I am fairly new to this, so bear with me if I am asking something that was already asked. While I was happy to find this discussion and I honestly believe EA/BW may address some LGB content because they did in other games, the main licence of this is Star Wars. And... I somehow don't see Lucasarts agree to this. I mean... when the Legacy of the Force books came out and the fans realised that Karen Traviss had added a male Mandalorian couple to the story (or at least they had to realise that the person named Medrit that Brevin was thinking about in "A practical man" was not his wife but indeed his male partner.) there was a huge controversy in a lot of fan forums. And nasty does not begin to describe the attitude of a lot of fans. So... I am wondering if they'd really permit same gender romance into the SW game.

 

Mind, I do not want to put down your movement here - it is GREAT what you are doing. But I always had the impression that Lucasarts was very very conservative with their SW brand and very reluctant to add anything that was not mainstream.

 

Greetings

Falconheart

Hi,

 

I am fairly new to this, so bear with me if I am asking something that was already asked. While I was happy to find this discussion and I honestly believe EA/BW may address some LGB content because they did in other games, the main licence of this is Star Wars. And... I somehow don't see Lucasarts agree to this. I mean... when the Legacy of the Force books came out and the fans realised that Karen Traviss had added a male Mandalorian couple to the story (or at least they had to realise that the person named Medrit that Brevin was thinking about in "A practical man" was not his wife but indeed his male partner.) there was a huge controversy in a lot of fan forums. And nasty does not begin to describe the attitude of a lot of fans. So... I am wondering if they'd really permit same gender romance into the SW game.

 

Mind, I do not want to put down your movement here - it is GREAT what you are doing. But I always had the impression that Lucasarts was very very conservative with their SW brand and very reluctant to add anything that was not mainstream.

 

Greetings

Falconheart

 

It's an old point but very well-phrased. Let's put a few things on the tables, though:

 

The critical response to the newer trilogy of movies was, to put it mildly, not entirely in Lucas's favour. Nonetheless he stuck to his guns and faced down a planet of fans who were all going, 'Mitichlorians? Double-you tee eff, George?' George Lucas is not a man to be swayed by popular opinion of approved content (for good or ill).

 

Both he and Lucasfilm have donated to same-sex equality causes. I'm sure people could dig up the specifics, but the point is they haven't been shy about doing so.

 

George Lucas also maintains an iron grip on certain aspects of the Star Wars universe. When a specific card in a print run of the Star Wars collectible card game showed a bunch of Yoda-species people standing around a statue worshipping it he had the entire print run of cards pulped rather than let a single one of that card into the world. If he or Lucasarts were so opposed to the subject then Ms Traviss's book would never have made it to print. There would also be no same sex content in any of the previous Star Wars games (I haven't played them but I'm told there were same sex options in the KotOR games).

 

So truly I don't believe Mr Lucas or Lucasarts are behind this. And if by some unexpected tragedy they are behind it then I've no doubt it will eventually come to light.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Kioma

We are happy to come back to clarify points that have been discussed before. This topic has been here since January, and that's a lot to catch up on.

 

To answer your question, it's very much confirmed that same-gender romance will be in SWTOR - it is just a matter of when. EA, BioWare and Lucas Arts have all signed off on this. While it may not be common knowlege, it is a matter of public record that George Lucas donated $50,000 to support marriage equality in California in his own name, and LucasFilm donated another $50,000. George owns the franchise, and ultimately has the veto. He's fine with same-gender content in SWTOR, so LucasArts has no objection.

 

For an overview of what we know about same-gender content coming Soon™ to SWTOR, I recommend the FAQ link in Natashina's forum signature.

 

And Natashina, thank you, but really and truly I am just a player who has gotten tired of romantic content that excludes me, and I am very stubborn and a little mean. I am glad I can help but honestly and truly this is and must be a group effort, a community effort, to be worth doing at all.

 

edit - and yes, my sister's a great gal. Chances are, if it's an MMO and I am playing it, she introduced me to it.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Uluain